Snake 'strangles two children' in New Brunswick, Canada

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**reds8n**

Awful story, incredibly sad and unlucky.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23583116

A snake escaped from a pet shop and killed two children in the Canadian province of New Brunswick, police say.

In a statement, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they believed the reptile had strangled two boys, aged five and seven, in Campbellton.

The boys were staying overnight at a friend's apartment above the pet shop.

Police said they believe the snake slipped out of its cage overnight and travelled through the ventilation. The serpent has been captured by police.

'Tragedy'
Officers were called to the address on Monday morning where the two boys were found dead, said a police statement. The flat was located above the Reptile Ocean exotic pet store.

"The preliminary investigation has led police to believe that a large exotic snake had escaped its enclosure at the store sometime overnight, and got into the ventilation system, then into the upstairs apartment," said the statement.

Post-mortem examinations will be performed on the two boys, thought to be brothers, on Tuesday. No charges have been laid so far.

Campbellton's deputy mayor, Ian Comeau, said the incident was a "tragedy".

"The city is in shock," he added.

Experts say attacks by exotic snakes are extremely rare.

David Rogrigue, director of Montreal's Ecomuseum Zoo, told Agence France-Presse news agency that this attack was "difficult to believe... very, very extraordinary, and very improbable".

In a Facebook message, Reptile Ocean wrote: "Deepest sympathies goes out to the family of the children. A terrible accident without a meaning."

The store said it would temporarily suspend its online account because users had posted "demeaning comments".

Initial reports suggested the reptile may have been a boa constrictor, but officials later said they believed it was an African rock python.

The owner of Reptile Ocean told CTV News that he had had the snake since 2001.

Never really understood the attraction in such exotic pets.

**juraigamer**

Apparently it's all about bringing the jungle to you.

**Musselman**

Yeh read that this morning on CNN. Another reason why python's are not "pets." Something does seem fishy to me...this guy has watched these kids before, yet this time the snake got loose, climbed the air vents, fell through the ceiling and decided to kill those poor kids. It must have been really hungry, only cats kill things for "fun." So maybe this owner is more responsible than they are making it seem.

**Grey Templar**

How big was the snake?

Had to have been pretty large to attack them, IIRC they don't attack anything they can't eat. And it would have had to have been on the bigger side to go after those boys.

And nobody was woken up?

I agree that something seems fishy here.

**Jayce_The_Ace**

Grey Templar wrote:
How big was the snake?

Had to have been pretty large to attack them, IIRC they don't attack anything they can't eat. And it would have had to have been on the bigger side to go after those boys.

And nobody was woken up?

I agree that something seems fishy here.

Several news websites that carried this story had people posting comments about this type of snake not attacking unless hungry, and wondering how no one was woken up by what was happening.

Later however, all comments were removed.

It is a terrible tragedy if this turns out to be true, but I can't help wondering if there is a little more to it.

**Goliath**

Grey Templar wrote:
How big was the snake?

Had to have been pretty large to attack them, IIRC they don't attack anything they can't eat. And it would have had to have been on the bigger side to go after those boys.

And nobody was woken up?

I agree that something seems fishy here.

For one because snakes never kill more than one thing at once. It'd have to strangle the first kid to death without him screaming or making any noise whatsoever, and then the second one.

The fact that there was initially a huge amount of confusion over which type of snake it was makes me think that the owner wasn't particularly careful, as you'd know exactly what type of snake it was immediately if you were keeping proper records.

**Experiment 626**

Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
How big was the snake?

Had to have been pretty large to attack them, IIRC they don't attack anything they can't eat. And it would have had to have been on the bigger side to go after those boys.

And nobody was woken up?

I agree that something seems fishy here.

Several news websites that carried this story had people posting comments about this type of snake not attacking unless hungry, and wondering how no one was woken up by what was happening.

Later however, all comments were removed.

It is a terrible tragedy if this turns out to be true, but I can't help wondering if there is a little more to it.

The snake was an African Rock Python, reported to be about 4.5 meters in length. It was destroyed by animal control authorities yesterday.

The current theory RCMP are working on is that these boys had been out at a family/friend's farm earlier in the day and thus had been in contact with animals like dogs/cats/livestock. The Rock Python tends to hunt smaller animals & livestock in the wild, and so it may have been confused by various scents on the boys. (apparently Rock Pythons have an incredible sense of smell) There's even been reports of the largest Rock Pythons in the wild hunting down crocodiles!
They're also apparently not very good pets, as they don't take too well/adapt at all to being caged and can be rather unruly when handled. (ie: keeping one as a pet is really dumb idea!)

The RCMP haven't yet ruled out possible criminal charges either. At the very least, I would think a negligent homicide or negligence causing death charge would be warranted if it's found out that the snake wasn't being properly secured in its cage?

Unfortunately, Canada has no across-the-board laws when it comes to exotic pet ownership besides the outright basics (ie: you can't own anything really poisonous or something insane like a tiger). Instead everything is more or less provincially & municipally mandated.

As an example of the silliness, in Ontario, it's now illegal to own any type of pitbull breed of dog but a pet wolf is a-okay! (and IIRC, constrictor snakes up to 3m in length are fine & dandy, provided they're not poisonous)

**Jimsolo**

People seem to be of the opinion that 'something is amiss' here, but I'm confused exactly what is being implied. Do people think that someone killed the two boys and then pinned it on the snake? Killed them with the snake? Or that the boys were messing around with the snake and got themselves killed?

I agree that the whole thing doesn't make sense, but I really don't know where to jump on this one...

**LordofHats**

I think people are concerned the man running the pet shop and keeping the snake was negligent in its care leading to their deaths.

**Grey Templar**

Jimsolo wrote:
People seem to be of the opinion that 'something is amiss' here, but I'm confused exactly what is being implied. Do people think that someone killed the two boys and then pinned it on the snake? Killed them with the snake? Or that the boys were messing around with the snake and got themselves killed? I agree that the whole thing doesn't make sense, but I really don't know where to jump on this one...

Thats whats fishy.

Snakes don't kill more than one thing at a time if they are indeed hungry, and this wasn't a case of the snake defending itself(which constrictors don't really do well at besides fleeing or being too big to mess with)

And then it manages to kill them both without anybody being alerted, no cries for help or anything.

So all in all things are not adding up for the snake killing them both with the intention of eating them.

**Ouze**

Musselman wrote:
Yeh read that this morning on CNN. Another reason why python's are not "pets."

Pythons are a fairly big family with a lot of variety so that blanket statement might not apply. I think Ball Pythons are probably the ideal pet for a beginning snake keeper (although I'm much, much more inclined to agamids and monitors that snakes). On the other hand, there are other pythons that in my limited exotic pet shop experience were quite unpleasant - green tree pythons especially. Very pretty, but not good pets.

**Frazzled**

1. Has the coroner come back yet confirming this was caused by the snake?

If no:
A. Why would a snake attack two "prey items" at the same time?
B. How could a snake attack two at the same time?
Something smells not right about this.

**Experiment 626**

Frazzled wrote:
1. Has the coroner come back yet confirming this was caused by the snake?

If no:
A. Why would a snake attack two "prey items" at the same time?
B. How could a snake attack two at the same time?
Something smells not right about this.

Yes, the coroner's results were released yesterday and both the boys died of asphyxiation.

A. The boys had been out at a farm earlier in the day and been in close contact with livestock such as lamas & goats. If they didn't bathe properly afterwards, then they would have had the scents of those animals, (natural prey for a Rock Python), all over them. Current working theory by the RCMP is that the snake was confused by the scents and likely believed the boys to be prey, so naturally, being hungry it did what pythons do best.

B. The boys were sleeping together in the living room. (sleep over at a friends apartment) If they were close enough together, it wouldn't be hard for the snake to get them both at once.

**sebster**

Allow exotic pets, and you can expect to see an increase in deaths caused by exotic pets. The need people have to interesting and exciting by owning dangerous animals is just fething stupid.

Musselman wrote:
Yeh read that this morning on CNN. Another reason why python's are not "pets." Something does seem fishy to me...this guy has watched these kids before, yet this time the snake got loose, climbed the air vents, fell through the ceiling and decided to kill those poor kids. It must have been really hungry, only cats kill things for "fun." So maybe this owner is more responsible than they are making it seem.

Plenty of animals kill for fun, if they find themselves in the right conditions. If an animal has a consistently full belly, ie is kept by humans as a pet and fed regularly, then it will start using its hunting skills just for fun.

**Ouze**

sebster wrote:
Plenty of animals kill for fun, if they find themselves in the right conditions. If an animal has a consistently full belly, ie is kept by humans as a pet and fed regularly, then it will start using its hunting skills just for fun.

Some animals do, yes, but snakes typically do not. The animals that kill for fun are typically the more intelligent mammals (dolphins, whales, bears, etc) and they do so in situations that are low risk for them - i.e. dolphins will beat porpoises to death, and the porpoises don't really pose a significant danger to the dolphins any more than small seals and penguins do to polar bears.

Snakes are sort of a different situation, though. Large snakes are generally ambushers, and they have a very low energy budget. As such any hunting at all is somewhat dangerous for them just by virtue of them using that limited energy, regardless of how successful they are going to be. Snakes aren't going to kill something they aren't intending to eat any more than you'll spend money when you're on a tight budget ordering a meal just to throw it out. They only really expend energy for three things: evading predators, hunting food, and hunting heat so said food doesn't rot in their stomach and kill them.

**Monster Rain**

This is ridiculous, even for the Dakka OT forum.

The snake clearly is the culprit here. The people in here flashing Junior Herpetologist badges are making me cringe off of my chair.

**Dreadwinter**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
1. Has the coroner come back yet confirming this was caused by the snake?

If no:
A. Why would a snake attack two "prey items" at the same time?
B. How could a snake attack two at the same time?
Something smells not right about this.

Yes, the coroner's results were released yesterday and both the boys died of asphyxiation.

Died of asphyxiation but not a broken neck? From a constrictor that large and powerful?

I am with Fraz here. Snakes half that size could snap their necks like a twig.

**Monster Rain**

They could if they were wrapped around their victims' necks.

They don't have to be.

**sebster**

Ouze wrote:
Snakes are sort of a different situation, though. Large snakes are generally ambushers, and they have a very low energy budget. As such any hunting at all is somewhat dangerous for them just by virtue of them using that limited energy, regardless of how successful they are going to be. Snakes aren't going to kill something they aren't intending to eat any more than you'll spend money when you're on a tight budget ordering a meal just to throw it out. They only really expend energy for three things: evading predators, hunting food, and hunting heat so said food doesn't rot in their stomach and kill them.

Change that energy dynamic by giving them regular, substantial meals as a pet, and it all changes.

I mean, I'm far from an expert on snakes, but it doesn't seem unusual at all to me that if you massively change the animal's environment by giving it a regular supply of food, you will see a change in behaviour compared to the wild. As such, the argument being put forward that snakes in the wild don't hunt for fun, and therefore this snake doesn't hunt for fun, and therefore this suspicious seems a very long bow.

**Ouze**

sebster wrote:
Change that energy dynamic by giving them regular, substantial meals as a pet, and it all changes.

I mean, I'm far from an expert on snakes, but it doesn't seem unusual at all to me that if you massively change the animal's environment by giving it a regular supply of food, you will see a change in behaviour compared to the wild. As such, the argument being put forward that snakes in the wild don't hunt for fun, and therefore this snake doesn't hunt for fun, and therefore this suspicious seems a very long bow.

Well, I was speaking in generalities. I'm not in the "maybe this snake didn't kill the kids" camp since, well, it's pretty damn likely it did, pending the usual investigations... I mean, that would be some coincidence, right? I just wanted to rebut that one fairly popular misconception. The whole thing with playing with goats could definitely explain the confusion.

Definitely a tragedy.

I wouldn't have a problem with a ban on some of the larger snakes in the retail pet trade. Red tail boa constrictors are a very popular pet, often sold to first time snake owners because they are reasonably easy to breed (cheap), are reasonably docile, and are very attractive as juveniles... but I think most people are ill-equipped to own such a snake. They get enormous and are very powerful.

**Howard A Treesong**

I read somewhere that this huge snake weighed 7 stones, it didn't have to strangle them or try to kill them. Just slithering over their necks could choke and crush them surely.

**AduroT**

How much is a stone?

**reds8n**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_(unit)

**Ouze**

Also, google will do conversions for you if you type them into this format:

5 stone = ? pounds

5 GBP = ? USD

etc.