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Hello,
I could really use some help and/or insight to the necrons from a "nilla" marine perspective.

My last few games have been against the crons and I have lost horribly both times.

the first game, the cron player had 4 scythes, 2 anni barges, 2 Ghost Arks, etc, (1850 points match).
the second game was against my friend who is new to cron and build his own anni barges. This time I went up against 3 anni barges in a 1000 points game.

Out of failed melta shots, successful jinks and a lot of shooting, i was able to pull two hull points off of one barge, and kill 6 of his wraiths before pretty much losing everything.

Between the wraiths constant pressure and the the barges high armour and damage output, do i really have any options to fight back at this army?

My friend was saying all this stuff like: "the shooting range is only 24 inches, stay back" but his barges move 12" then shoot 24" twin-linked and tripling damage on 6's. not to mention the wraiths completely ignore terrain, so i feel like I can't even play my army in a smart way at all. It's like these units have taken all the fun out of thinking through what to do. I honestly feel like we should just be playing on a blank table at opposite ends and he can just run everything he has straight at me and hit me by turn 2.
I have not had fun playing against necron to say the least.

Does anyone have any insights to help?
Experiences?

My friend is like: "well i'm really competitive" which was basically an insult to me that i am not competitive or that i just suck.

It's making not even want to play anymore for a while.

Well, the problem is that you have an old codex and he has an extremely overpowered codex at the moment...
Perhaps, the game balance will get better when you get the new codex soon...perhaps not.

The best idea is to ask him to water down his list a little so that you can have a more competitive, closer game. This will be more enjoyable for both of you.

If he refuses tell him that you will find someone else to play; someone that is "in your league". He'll either play someone else, or relent and you'll both be playing in the spirit of the first rule.

Necrons are a lot better than Space Marines at the moment. There's not much you can really do other than switch armies, which is why GW has codex creep to begin with.

Sounds like he is flat out cheating with barges, they can only move 6in and fire normally.


What do you mean tripling damage on 6s? He gets 2 auto hits but still has to roll to wound on those.

 Madness! wrote:
Well, the problem is..

In my opinion the problem is that the opponents are spamming Barges, Wraiths and/or Flyers.

Competitive doesn't mean you are bad or anything.
It just means that he probably copy-pasted the latest tournament-winning list and plays it against someone who doesn't.

What do you normally run at that points level? That would help alot. My Marines beat a AV13 heavy Necron list at Railhead Rumble in Dallas earlier this year enroute to best general and I've been generally successful against Necrons (I don't keep exact stats, but I win about ~85-90% of the time against Necrons with my TAC marine list).

In general, you want to treat the wraiths as a 12 wound marine squad and shoot at them with small arms. High rate of fire weapons are good here. That lets you use long range AT weapons on the barges and ghost arcs. Damage output from night scythes is minimal enough that you can usually ignore them.

Is the tesla rule you get 3 hits for every 6 rolled?

or is it 2 hits?

2 extra hits, so 3 total.

tesla rule is for every 6 "to hit" role you get 2 free auto hits. not auto wounds so 3 hits total then you have to role to wound

I had the same problem when I started back up playing again. Necrons are a pain, but they're not invincible. I'd suggest maybe Deep Striking some Terminators (or running them up in a Land Raider or something) to go up and personally say "HI!" to his Arks. Assaulting Necron Vehicles with power weapons/fists is always fun. I popped a Necron Monolith this past Sunday with Ghaz (S10 w/ his Power Klaw).

Warriors: Shoot 'em until they don't get back up again. Preferably, mow down the whole freaking squad with as much fire as you can pour into one. He can't use reanimation protocols if they're all lying face down in the dirt.

Lords: If he is using Mindshackle Scarabs; DO NOT ASSAULT. Try to kill them with ranged fire. MSS allows him to 'control' one of your assaulting units by having the victim hit themselves. When that little gem started coming out I nearly flipped a table out of frustration at the store since there is no defense for it (currently). So I stopped assaulting his Lords that have it.

Marines don't have the firepower to outgun the Necrons in general. And by the time the marines make it into HTH, there aren't enough left to win. Hopefully the new codex changes this. But not too much. I don't want marines to be easy mode 40k. I don't think that's going to happen. Meqs are in such a hole right now that GW would have to lose their minds to go too far I think. But they do sometimes lose their minds.

wait til the new codex comes out and destroy him with your new god-tier firepower

I'm really hoping that doesn't happen.

As a marine player based on your opponents list you could take a librarian with nullzone, stick him in a land raider with TH/SS termies and say vulkan and just LOLWTF those wraiths in a single round of combat probably. Then to kill the barges take a sternguard melta squad in a drop pod. MM attk bikes with melta as well maybe 3 of them in 1 squad. Then a couple rifleman dread with an aegis/quad gun to take down flyers and kill the warriors(ap4). And fill the rest with tacticals and scouts(deployment flexibility). Of course these are just my opinion on what's worked for me in the past.

And if the guy changes his list? Tailoring to beat a specific list really isn't beating the list.

I find those things work against all necron builds. They're also the most TAC choices in our codex. Necrons are pretty vanilla once you learn how to deal with the general builds which it sounds like his opponent is taking one of.

Edit:so I don't see it as tailoring to anything specific at all. And let his opponent change his list my suggestions will still be valid.

Chance's suggestion is pretty good. Space Marines are pretty weak ATM. Have you considered allies? SW allies could help, Jaws is murder on Wraiths. You could also get access to GH which are better than Tac squads. The 4+ dispel is good against most armies. Nullzone on a Libby is a great idea. It makes Wraiths easier to pop with Melta and also helps vs Daemons and a few other armies/units (Heldrakes!). The LR with Terminators is useful vs most armies, though LRs can be very risky to use.

Knowing what your list currently looks like would help us help you.

Thank you everyone for all of the great input. It has helped me see the things I can do to take them on.

Honestly my list is pretty bad in most cases.

I have a few dreads but don't have the rifle arms. so i run assault cannons and one has a flamer the other a missile launcher. I know it's probably not optimal but it's what i have to work with.
I have 2 typhoon speeders.
a tac squad. (typically ran melta/combi-melta in drop-pod then rockets or lascannon on the side)
some proxy drop pods
scouts (both snipers and pistol/close combat/shotgun with combi-melta sergeants.)
I have dev squads that i sometimes run. (usually one squad at most with 3/4 rocket launchers)
I run a treasured bike command squad with 4 melta guns and a leader with combi-melta/artificer armour/ and thunder hammer.
Oh and i've been running sternguard vets with just boltguns lately due to their versatility.

I try to set up with dreads in the middle, vets on the right of them lined up, speeders on the far right and toward the back. snipers, and missiles in the back providing coverfire.
I infiltrate and scout up my scouts to get into prime firing range. If i go second I still move up but try to get into cover and then go to ground if i take fire. They usually can draw a lot of fire and still live but if not, they're just 5 scouts..
then i run up the dreads, move up the speeders, same with the vets and fire my whole army at what most times is only half of theirs (because they tend to deploy across the whole map.) My whole army then fires at what they're best at focusing down one unit at a time (in most cases).
The assault cannons are fun because they're fairly strong against most infantry and can get lucky against MC's and vehicles.
I try to fire all the missiles first to crack transports, etc, and then vanguard and dreads mow down along with scouts.
(against daemons I just sit back and unload everything I can. )
Oh yeah, and then the command squad of bikes usually waits until the time is right to get up in their business. I try to soften them up and then send in the fury of the bikes!

My list is not optimal because i use what i like the looks of. (rule of cool)

Most of the games I play are really close (i've played deamons, chaos marines, orks, vanilla marines, blood angels). and i can usually set-up and maneuver my units around to maximize point loss and what not and the games are fun. partly because they're so close and partly because i feel like i have control.
I guess against dem crons i really felt like i couldn't do anything.

I don't have heavy armour to work with (Land Raiders, Vindicators) and I don't have any terminators either yet. /-: So i would say those are my biggest problems.

At a tournament on Saturday I went to for a feast of blades qualifier I actually took second out of four people. (w00t) losing to the cron list, but everyone there pretty much all had everything they needed (models wise) so they gave me all the prize money! so I got a stormtalon and a razorback. (i guess I'm just slowly working up to the heavy armour)

Again thank you everyone for the insights. I have been thinking about the libby/termie/landraider combo and I think that would be pretty cool.
I've been looking at the 3 variants of land raider and think i would go for the standard one with the twin linked lascannons, although i do really like the crusader as well, it just doesn't seem very anti-vehicle and that's what i need more of right now.

I don't do too bad against Necrons with my marines.

I play a Drop Pod Salamander army though, so that helps.

But, looking at what you are bringing, it's fairly clear why you are having difficulty winning.

I read that list as you only have A TAC squad....as in 1. If that's the case, I'm not surprised you are losing in a heavy objective based meta.

At 1850 you should have a minimum of 2 or 3 TAC squads for objectives. After that, some sternguard with combi-melta and flamers with a GOI/Null Zone libby in a Drop pod will kill stuff.

Dreads are a tough thing to use in this addition. They die easily, especially if not iron clad. If you bring one, stick it in a pod.

Good luck -- either way, we have a new dex coming in the next few weeks. Once that hits, watch the forums for good tips/tricks and listbuilding ideas.

It sounds like your opponent is using the most competitive units from his codex and due to your limited options you are not, so I wouldn't take the loss too hard. I don't play crons too much but can that list do anything to LRS other than assault them? If not two lrs with a Libby with null zone and some ss/th termies with vulkan or Lysander would do well (like people said)

@NickTheButcher: I guess i didn't give all of the information, I sometimes put 30 scouts on the table. The old metal ones. (except most of the snipers are plastic).
1 squad of 5 w/combi-melta
1 squad of 5 w/combi-melta
1 squad of 10 w/power sword+melta bombs (usually combat squaded)
then 1 squad of 10 snipers w/heavy bolter.

I know that sounds way bad and sometimes is just terrible, but scouts can be surprisingly resilient and over-looked by the enemy at times.
I've had scouts go to ground, survive lots of fire, then get back up the next turn (by then the opponent started firing other things) then assaulted groups of marines and won.

But yes, i do know that i am fighting an up-hill battle with my army. just usually i can at least do ok and have fun with it.

@TableTopJosh: that would be a great list vs necron. only their troop choices would be able to glance them to death with the gauss special rule. i think they would be the best bet.

As a necron player..

I fear plasma cannons, thunder fire cannons and deep striking terminators.

I do not like opponents having 2-3 las cannons as they can take out barges easily. Remember the +1 damage for being AP2 and +1 damage for being a skimmer on the penetration table.

I do not fear any vehicle at all, nor do i fear dread's.

Also.. you have 0 answers for my fliers. If your friend is bringing 3+ then get an Aegis defense line. If it's only 2-3 don't worry about them.


BTW anyone who says you cant win because Necron dex are OP is plain wrong...

Necrons can be frustrating in the hands of a skilled player, but it's all still totally within your grasp. Many of his units are sub-par in assault, and his army has very few invulnerable saves. Bod's post has a lot of good advice there. I play drop pods, and I can frequently win against my local Necron players.

My advice is to try and make sure you keep cover between you and Destroyers (as well as his pie plate dropping vehicles) and try and kill the vehicles quickly. The ghost ark can be somewhat mitigated by staying out of line of sight of it, since it can't maneuver to get a better angle AND fire. The monolith is slow enough that you can, if needed, play keep-away from it all game if you are clever.

When killing infantry, do your best to deny the Res rolls. Focus your fire to eliminate whole squads. A tactic which I have used to limited success is to keep stock of whether you CAN eliminate whole squads. Sometimes you will be better off shooting a second, fresh, squad, in order to force a leadership test. (Bear in mind that forcing a unit of Necrons to take a Leadership test is a little like buying a lottery ticket. There's a big payoff if you luck out, but nine times out of ten you're just pitching your money away.)

Don't get discouraged by the doomsaying. It's totally possible to beat Necrons with Marines, just a matter of learning how to use what you have. Keep practicing, and I hope I was able to be of some kind of help!

bodazoka wrote:
As a necron player..

I do not like opponents having 2-3 las cannons as they can take out barges easily. Remember the +1 damage for being AP2 and +1 damage for being a skimmer on the penetration table.

Where is this at in the BRB? I haven't been playing this way.....do you mean open topped?

 NickTheButcher wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
As a necron player..

I do not like opponents having 2-3 las cannons as they can take out barges easily. Remember the +1 damage for being AP2 and +1 damage for being a skimmer on the penetration table.

Where is this at in the BRB? I haven't been playing this way.....do you mean open topped?

Pretty sure he means open topped there.

 Jimsolo wrote:
try and make sure you keep cover between you and Destroyers (as well as his pie plate dropping vehicles) and try and kill the vehicles quickly. The ghost ark can be somewhat mitigated by staying out of line of sight of it, since it can't maneuver to get a better angle AND fire.

If you're talking about pie plate dropping vehicles, I assume you mean the Doomsday Ark, there (Ghost Ark has zero problems with moving and shooting... not there's a lot to worry about, as far as shooting coming from a Ghost Ark goes... unless he's got a Destruction-tek or five inside, then yes, you would need to worry about hiding from a Ghost Ark).

Kangodo wrote:

 Madness! wrote:
Well, the problem is..

In my opinion the problem is that the opponents are spamming Barges, Wraiths and/or Flyers.

Competitive doesn't mean you are bad or anything.
It just means that he probably copy-pasted the latest tournament-winning list and plays it against someone who doesn't.

Yeah, from the sound of it he has a tournament list. You can be competitive with a non tournament list, but it is hard to not be competitive when you have a tournament list.

bodazoka wrote:
As a necron player..
I fear plasma cannons, thunder fire cannons and deep striking terminators.

I do not like opponents having 2-3 las cannons as they can take out barges easily. Remember the +1 damage for being AP2 and +1 damage for being a skimmer on the penetration table.

I do not fear any vehicle at all, nor do i fear dread's.

So does it pretty much even out to apathy if your opponent as a Dread with the Las Cannons?

I find tournament list crons are lacking something rather important these days: gauss. If you bring some land raiders, his annihilation barges can't touch you with tesla destructors, and the gauss cannons don't have the raw number of shots to put 4 HPs on a land raider before the contents can get out and wreck you.

The ghost arks will be the problem, but you have LC standard on a landraider, so you should easily pen it before you get there, leaving their vehicles quite weak. Also, LC weapon teams are strong for now (we will see after the new book for marines soon). After you pen them, they go down very fast due to only AV11.

As far as the sky goes: either take a lot of anti-air, or don't bother with any. You can move your forces to dictate the only decent options your enemy has after you realize they can't hover. Destructors aren't nearly as awesome vs marines as they are on other targets. I average about 5 wounds per shot, and that's only 1-2 dead marines. It's more of a utility gun, smoking out light vehicles with glances for days or thinning a horde out.

Now for the wraiths: use your anti-infantry firepower on these guys. The standard issue bolter is just fine for killing them. Treat them as you would any marine and you will see they fold just fine. Don't bother with ID on them, those shots should be aimed at vehicles as often as possible.

Hmmn ..where is your flyer ..if your friend builds his arcs build your flyer .. a couple of them ..;o)

I agree I rarely see gauss, so lrs would be pretty tough