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I'm planning my next army, I've gotten fed up of having a slow army, as i run orks in wagons, footslogging chaos (sit back and shoot) and necrons (march forward and shoot). so i want something fast.

which is where i got to looking around and, considering my reluctance to go bandwagon-jumping, the options for a really fast army are limited - eldar ain't happening, too many people use them already, and i don't want to get 'infected' with overcompetitivitus.

i was looking at dark eldar and, with 2 fast transports with open-topped, i quite like what i see. their sick twisted creations appeal to my conversion side (I'm thinking steampunk circus freakshow of doom, ringmaster, trapezes, and plenty of strongmen) and frankly anyone who sails into battle on sky-ships has got my vote.

but are they still good, overall? I'm not asking if there's a specific build that works, I'm asking if a majority of their units still work (there's always a few that don't). i like to be able to really change my lists round, so i can't be doing with an army that can only handle itself if i build it in one way.

-edit- sorry, i thought i was posting on the tactics section, not the army list section - can i get this shifted over there please?

Dark Eldar, I think can still play really well, but as Iam relatively new to them, Iam not the best person to ask.

I do find some units in the codex don't have much of a reason to be there.. grotesques and mandrakes mainly.

there are a few good army's that work.. like venom spam, raider rush and beast masters. If you want fast you have indeed come to the right end of the ladder. We have fliers which are pretty nice. but generally its are fast attack and heavy support i find that makes dark eldar really fun.

If its speed you want, dark eldar are your friends... even if they are fragile.

-jackblg the one and only-

thanks jack, and if someone new to the scene can make them work alright, that means thay'll be good for me. i'll be picking a copy of their codex up tomorrow, have a look through and get some list ideas down. i really fancy building my painting skills too, and the overabundance of finecrapcast models should offer some decent detail, even if i have to practically sculpt it myself.

DE are showing their age, yet again. While they do have some competetive builds they are hurting in general.

Have you considered Chaos Deamons?

I think without Eldar Allies, it will be hard to be competitive with Dark Eldar alone. Their poison is nice since so many armies have monstrous creatures, but by themselves I think you will be hard pressed. They almost need a seer (farseer) to help them shoot well or to help their units to survive if you are lucky enough to get fortune.
My first love was Eldar and they are the flavor of the month right now. Things will likely calm down once space marines come out and the Eldar are not the hot topic.

Daemons can be wicket fast with flying MC and Orks can be fast in meched up. Necrons can be wicked fast if you have a crap ton of Night scythes. I think you have 2 armies already that could be very fast for you with some tweeks.

I've been toying with DE for a few months the same reason. I wanted something completely different, and that's exactly what they are. Here are some tips for starting that I've learned either the hard way or by listening to my peers:

One: The unwritten rule of "One is None" is all but essential for DE. EVERYTHING is light, squishy, and easy to kill (if your opponent can hit it). If you bring a vehicle, bring three (or nine). If you have a troop choice, bring three. If you have a fast attack, bring two. Make your opponent choose which is the biggest threat between everything you have, because you still have at least one more of it. Spam is your friend.

Two: DE are fast. That is their biggest advantage, so learn how to use it. Keep them running/hovering from cover to cover, out of LoS, and separated enough to keep from being a juicy blast target. One S7 AP2 (ie Plasma cannon) blast can take out two raiders in one shot with a good roll. That's unfortunately one of the lessons I learned the hard way.

Three: Special weapons. Use them. If you can take it, do. Poison 4+ is awesome, but with that you're getting 1/3 shots/wound ratio, and AP5 means that almost everything gets a save. Splinter cannons, Dark Lances, Disintegrator cannons... Do not underestimate their worth.

Four: Beware the CC, especially after playing Orks, because it isn't what you'd expect. S3 kind of sucks. Wyches are hard to kill with their 4++, but it's also difficult to kill anything else because it's hard to wound. I'm not saying that you should avoid it altogether, because it can be incredibly strategic, especially for tar pitting. Just be careful, because they don't quite have the destructive power of Orks or Chaos in CC.

Daemons are super fast and fun as hell. I was a csm guy, rent daemons and never went back

Iv been playing DE since they got re-released, I think they are pretty damn fun.

With how 6th has turned out combat is pretty tough for DE, personally Iv had more success with a warrior focused build using a couple of venoms some raiders and a ravager or 2.

As people have said the army is pretty fragile, chances are if your hit your dead, pretty much just try to not be hit, use LoS blocking terrain and cover as best you can. Night shields can also help to stop you from being shot.


Reavers are probably the fastest unit in the book that can move and do good damage. 48 inch move while slashing people is cool.

Alot of people like to take trueborn with blasters in their venoms but I think having a 3 man trueborn squad with 2 splinter cannons in a venom works better. Get your anti-tank from dark-lances or something.


Lastly, you dont need Eldar allies to make them work, DE have plenty of tools available to them.

Dark Eldar are great in a tournament setting or where there are prepared lists. The army is just too fragile for someone who is list tailoring.

With that said the shooting wing of the army is still top notch. Everything 'works' on a 4+ (poison or lance). Its murderous against many of the good meta models (Daemon FMC, Riptides, Wraithnights) and can still melt a parking lot fast.

As for the question of every unit being good, sadly no, they aren't. Half the book shoots very well and the other half gets gunned down in overwatch (only slightly joking). Wyches have been hit with a schizophrenic bat by being not only bad at assault due to 6th edition, but also being plopped down as one of your best anti tanks now, its kinda a mess. Mandrakes, Incubi, Talos and a host of others are just a step behind now while Ravagers, Reaver bikes and the humble 50 warriors are all still good.

If you bring just a DE list to any competetive event and the other person is running a competetive list you will get tabled.

They are awesome in that they have a ton of shooting and a ton of movement.

But they are the epitome of sardine cans. A few friends of mine have been playing them and they beat me for sure becuase i play nids but besides that almost every other time they play someone they get tabled.

Just to damn squshie with very little armor saves.

But if your going to play them USE BEASTPACKS BECAUSE THEY ARE AMAZING. Birds with 5 rending attacks and chymeras with 3++ REALLY FREAKING GOOD!!!!!

Bloodynecronight wrote:
If you bring just a DE list to any competetive event and the other person is running a competetive list you will get tabled.

They are awesome in that they have a ton of shooting and a ton of movement.

But they are the epitome of sardine cans. A few friends of mine have been playing them and they beat me for sure becuase i play nids but besides that almost every other time they play someone they get tabled.

Just to damn squshie with very little armor saves.

But if your going to play them USE BEASTPACKS BECAUSE THEY ARE AMAZING. Birds with 5 rending attacks and chymeras with 3++ REALLY FREAKING GOOD!!!!!

Iv played DE in a few tournies since 6th came out and I think Iv been tabled in maybe one or two games.

It really just comes down to how well you can utilise cover and pick your target priorities.

thanks for the feedback here guys, i appreciate that there are a lot of armies which can kinda sit back with impunity and laugh at the fun armies attempts to be competitive, and if i were going into a tournament i assure you the orks i know and love would be coming with me, so the deldar will be for a modelling, painting type project and a tactical challenge for me.

one idea i've had is to split the army into 2 detachments, each with 2 venoms, a raider and a ravager. the raiders occupants will be tooled up for anti-infantry, to make the most of the gun racks. the venoms will have the extra splinter cannon and the guys inside will have blasters in their squads.

that gives me 4 things, and with each of them there's a capability of destroying a vehicle and then anyone inside, aside from the ravager.

the other idea i've had is to take advantage of dark eldar being able to take a venom even if there're 20 of them, then i can get a home objective sitter and a bonus 12-shot poisoned weapon platform to go harrass monsters etc.

I'd then want to bring in one of the fliers, as i like fliers. that'd probably be heading towards 1500pts once there's a HQ in there, which i haven't looked through too thoroughly yet.

A friend of mine went to the ATC this past weekend and did well with a venom spam list and he had a beast pack unit that he said was his MVP