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Heya folks! So at some point I managed to get my hands on a Vampire Raider. I have recently been toying around with the idea of using it in our local apocalypse games and trying to justify the points cost.

I honestly feel like I am missing something here. It costs 730 points and has a scatter laser and 2 twin linked pulse lasers base. This is one scatter laser more than a hornet for 650 points more. Does the ability to carry 30 troops actually justify the cost? I am having a difficult time envisioning how to use this model effectively and have honestly entertained converting it to the vampire hunter for the pulsar.

Help me out! How would/do you use this this insanely priced flier?

Well there is the fact that as a Super-Heavy it also has 12 (I think) HPs.

Does the extra durability offered by the hull point really justify it? I am not trying to slam the model here. I have only played a few apocalypse games and I truly am having an issue figuring out how people use this model effectively.

Well lets compare
Hornet (65 pts)
Fast Skimmer with 2 HP and 2 Shuriken Cannons

Raider (730 pts)
Flyer (Hover) with 12 HP, 2 TL Pulse Lasers, Scatter Laser, Titan Holo-fields, better rear armour, 30 models, can carry a Wraithknight (hehehe) and due to the fact it is a super-heavy has additional rules which I'm too lazy to look up right now...

Pulsars, not pulse lasers. That's a titan-scale weapon, not a mere conventional gun.

No, Pulse Lasers It can exchange them for a single Pulsar.

Unless you are looking at the Vampire Hunter. But this is about the Vampire Raider.

It has the option to drop its weapons and 10 troop capacity for a single pulsar but it comes standard with 2 twin linked pulse lasers, the same kind (minus twin linked) that are on the hornet and falcon.

And I really am not trying to compare the hornet and the raider point per point, just looking at their similar turn per turn destructive potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woah, happy, can it really carry a wraithknight?

Sorry, I wasn't aware that anyone actually took the Vampire without pulsars. It's such an obvious (and free) upgrade that I can't imagine using one without it, unless you're playing somewhere that limits how many D-weapons you can take.

So, in other words, yes, it is worth it. A flying super-heavy with transport capacity and titan weapons is going to be expensive.

Swabby wrote:
It has the option to drop its weapons and 10 troop capacity for a single pulsar but it comes standard with 2 twin linked pulse lasers, the same kind (minus twin linked) that are on the hornet and falcon.

And I really am not trying to compare the hornet and the raider point per point, just looking at their similar turn per turn destructive potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woah, happy, can it really carry a wraithknight?

Technically yes. It has a transport capacity of 30 and cannot carry the Avatar, Wraithlords or vehicles. I have no idea how much room a Wraithknight would take, and I wouldn't try it, but...

As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models. Whereas the Warhound Titan who is 2.5" taller is a Super Heavy Walker. .

Anyway, I don't play Eldar nor have any IA books or Apoc itself, but the rules listed make me go "WTF? Why not take it? And through in 4 Wraithknights to carry. With 2 allied Riptides."


That is of course provided the wallet stretches and the rule on allies hasn't changed from the old Apoc book, where anything cpuld ally with anything and embark in anything (except if the model embarking was GC or SHV).

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

Yeah it costs so much because it does so much, and doesn't have a whole lot of drawbacks.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

One thing, can MC's even get in transports? Under Transport Capacity in the Transports section it states that "Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise."

Are MC's Infantry models? If not, technically they can't enter transports in general making this conversation moot. Otherwise, I can't find any reference to MC's being Extremely Bulky.

 washout77 wrote:

Yeah it costs so much because it does so much, and doesn't have a whole lot of drawbacks.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

One thing, can MC's even get in transports? Under Transport Capacity in the Transports section it states that "Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise."

Are MC's Infantry models? If not, technically they can't enter transports in general making this conversation moot. Otherwise, I can't find any reference to MC's being Extremely Bulky.

Sorry, my bad. Hold over from old Apocalypse rules. It would have been 10 models, So in the brief time between the release of the Eldar codex and Apocalypse, 3 Wraithknights could have caught a ride.

I guess I will magnetize the thing and run it with the pulsar.

Do any of you guys have any experience running the thing with the corsair apocalypse formation?

 Peregrine wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't aware that anyone actually took the Vampire without pulsars. It's such an obvious (and free) upgrade that I can't imagine using one without it, unless you're playing somewhere that limits how many D-weapons you can take.

Pulsar, not Pulsars.

Because FW has copy pasted the rules for it for the last 5 or 6 books, thats why more than anything. The vampire is just bad. AV10 for ~700 points with only titan holofields for a 4+ save off the hit. 12 hull points isnt enough when you have ~10 skyfire units in almost any army along with enemy fliers and such.

 zephoid wrote:
Because FW has copy pasted the rules for it for the last 5 or 6 books, thats why more than anything. The vampire is just bad. AV10 for ~700 points with only titan holofields for a 4+ save off the hit. 12 hull points isnt enough when you have ~10 skyfire units in almost any army along with enemy fliers and such.

This IS the Eldar though. A bunch of glass-cannons. If may not be the hardest thing to kill, but with D-Strength Titan weapons when it hits it's gonna hurt.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

My mistake, it doesn't. But it should do.


Anyway, the guy below you is correct in saying old rules they counted as 10 models. Don't know about now.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

My mistake, it doesn't. But it should do.


Anyway, the guy below you is correct in saying old rules they counted as 10 models. Don't know about now.

Either way, how does one get an Eldar unit to deploy inside of a Dark Eldar transport? and why would you? if it is so delicate, wouldn't it be too easy to shoot it out of the sky and force a S10 hit, probably killing it?

can carry a Wraithknight (hehehe)

Didnt know that, damn nice!

 washout77 wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
Because FW has copy pasted the rules for it for the last 5 or 6 books, thats why more than anything. The vampire is just bad. AV10 for ~700 points with only titan holofields for a 4+ save off the hit. 12 hull points isnt enough when you have ~10 skyfire units in almost any army along with enemy fliers and such.

This IS the Eldar though. A bunch of glass-cannons. If may not be the hardest thing to kill, but with D-Strength Titan weapons when it hits it's gonna hurt.

im confused, why are eldar glass cannons? All the super heavies are tougher than their imperial equivalent except for the vamp

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
As a MC the Wraithknight is Extremely Bulky and counts as 5 models..

Citation needed.

My mistake, it doesn't. But it should do.


Anyway, the guy below you is correct in saying old rules they counted as 10 models. Don't know about now.

Either way, how does one get an Eldar unit to deploy inside of a Dark Eldar transport? and why would you? if it is so delicate, wouldn't it be too easy to shoot it out of the sky and force a S10 hit, probably killing it?

I'm not up to date with the newest Eldar stats but last edition WraithLORDS were T8. I'd be surprised if it wasn't now, and even more so if the Wraithknight wasn't. Also, it would only take 1 wound in any case.

Either way, how does one get an Eldar unit to deploy inside of a Dark Eldar transport? and why would you? if it is so delicate, wouldn't it be too easy to shoot it out of the sky and force a S10 hit, probably killing it?

The vampire raider is an eldar superheavy transport.

 Swabby wrote:

Either way, how does one get an Eldar unit to deploy inside of a Dark Eldar transport? and why would you? if it is so delicate, wouldn't it be too easy to shoot it out of the sky and force a S10 hit, probably killing it?

The vampire raider is an eldar superheavy transport.

what are the others? (Eldar super heavy transports) I have seen the phoenix (made by hobby converstion) and I have seen the vampire raider are there others.. the reason I ask is I have 10k eldar infantry and I wanted to make a 15-20k apoc list that could function based on transports, and d weapons (super heavies etc) 2 x vampire raiders fits BOTH those requirements... but 2x20 model carry capacity is actually tiny... I think my purchase list will be that I will buy a lynx, a vampire raider, and a revenant

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.