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Slann Mage-Priest (Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery, Higher State of Consciousness)

Tetto'Eko
Scar-Veteran (Carnosaur w/Loping Stride)

20 Saurus Warriors (Full Command)
25 Skink Cohorts (Full Command, 2 Kroxigors)

5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks
Bastiladon (Solar Engine)

Ancient Stegadon

Drop Higher State, It's a trap!

Seriously, you don't want to put something that makes the Slann Unstable on it. I'd say invest in a Battle Standard and if you're paranoid about the Slann being picked off early on in the game keep him in the back. It's very much about positioning.

As above Higher state is a trap.

Do you need 16 spells with no way to get extra dice?

It seems bizarre that you give Tetto the protection of a second rank to sit in but not the Slaan. Who's cannonball/fast Cav bait?

Saurus are too small. Skink Cohort aren't great. Chameleon skinks are good but not really necessary when you can get Skirmishers in core.

Just 1 big Nasty seems a waste with Tetto there to give d3 Vanguard.

Ethereal isn't for being charged? Of course if he gets charged he'll die either way. It's for enemy shooting attacks. Namely CANNONS!

Tetto gets a bunker because that takes core.... not special points...

The Slann is a level 4 Wizard, which Tetto buffs insanely. I believe Tetto is a Casket of Souls situation. You can't not bring him.

Ok...looking at it this way...

Armies that have cannons.

Empire, Dwarves, Chaos Warriors.

Armies that have magical cannons.

Dwarves, Chaos Warriors (Hellcannon is magic iirc).

Really, it's not worth the points. If anything it makes your Slann significantly weaker as he now has to worry about losing wounds by combat resolution alone and considering he has one attack...well, any small skirmishing unit or flanking unit that has a musician will score a free wound every single turn on that frog, as well as denying him the ability to use Magic Missiles or direct damage unless you choose to go through Tetto'Eko - and if Tetto's unit gets bogged down into combat he can't use magic missiles or direct damage either.

I really think that you are putting far too many eggs in baskets there. I understand the desire to have a Carnosaur and a Slann but I'd really say swap out Tetto'Eko for a few skink priests or consider dropping the Carnosaur, bulking the Saurus unit up and taking a priest that way.

Too many eggs, too small a basket.

You're protecting the Slann against cannons by making him ethereal? Well, it'll be the Bastiladon, Stegadon or Carnosaur that die first to cannon fire to be frank. The Bastiladon's 2+ save is gone the moment a bolt thrower, stone thrower or cannon hit it and it has pitifully few wounds. You'd be really better taking the points off the frog and investing them elsewhere

I hate fielding Skink Priests! Why do people think that's a good idea! They just die. Where do you put them?

Generally you put them behind big units of Saurus and make full use of the fact they can run 12" per turn and still cast spells.

Seriously. Skink Priests have access to the best augment and debuf spells in the game in Heavens and Beasts and are so very mobile that catching one should be a fruitless endeavour for most people.

This isn't a hard concept. If anything this should be something you should be used to by using skink units already.

If positioning is a challenge for you and you want wizards that can just stand in a unit and cast spells you might be playing the wrong army sir.

As soon as a unit with a skink character gets into combat, the character will die. If you put the skink alone, it will die by ranged fire.

...

You do know how to keep Skink characters behind units and out of LoS, yes? That is the general principle here.

Daemons also have a cannon which is again magical and flaming sword can make the Empire or Ogre ones magical... Fast & flying units will get your Slain. Priests can be obscured entirely from missile fire by being behind a Saurus Block and you give other targets so cannons aren't a huge concern.

Tetto is awesome sauce but do you need 15 spells from 2 Lore Masters? Whilst his block is core it is the worst core choice. Whilst TG are a pretty strong Special choice..

Though I just noticed you also have the Carnosaur who I missed first time which makes Tetto make more sense.

Going into games with no BsB and no Scroll is for me asking for trouble...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
You do know how to keep Skink characters behind units and out of LoS, yes? That is the general principle here.

Yeah but why would I want to. Rerolling 1's is really good, and Loremaster is really good. I'd rather have Tetto'Eko.

Why would you want to? The Beasts and Heavens augments and hexes have a short-ish range. You can stack them. Generally you keep the Skinks behind the units to protect them, using their spells to augment the units once they hit combat.

You are putting far, far too much onto a level 2 loremaster with low toughness, low wounds and a very squishy unit to put him in.

He also seems to be the only anchor to your battleline so you are going to end up clumped together. Any mobile force will simply outflank you, deny your ranks and grind your units down.

You have no real magic defense. You have a Slann that can be whittled down just by a single rank bonus and a standard. You have no BSB.

And your entire line hinges on one character who can be lost to a miscast or an anti-mage item which Ogres, DE and Chaos can bring to the fore. Once Tetto is gone your entire line overruns without control, scattering about further.

Too many eggs in too small a basket.

"Once Tetto is gone..."

...It's not easy to kill Tetto, and his unit can easily avoid unsafe combat...

You fighting for skink priests which are much less defended.

I'm not investing much into Tetto... Just his base cost and some CORE points...

 LordHamshire wrote:
"Once Tetto is gone..."

...It's not easy to kill Tetto, and his unit can easily avoid unsafe combat...

You fighting for skink priests which are much less defended.

I'm not investing much into Tetto... Just his base cost and some CORE points...

I am far from convinced a large foot print block like the Skinks can easily avoid combat. Particularly as you don't have great MSU (3 units of chaff is good, but won't achieve this feat) particularly as you have literally no combat block in the army. Also no BsB or scrolls leaves you so open.

Whilst that 255 point block is Core it is the worst core in the book meaning you're putting 440 into Tetto claiming he's more difficult than a Skink Priest. Well yes but a Priest is 90-130 points with a scroll meaning you could take 2 easily for Tetto without causing yourself issues with Core and getting Scrolls so you are not completely at the whim of your opponents magic dice. And still have the points to make the Slaan a BSB giving you protection against an unlucky LD test...

 LordHamshire wrote:
"Once Tetto is gone..."

...It's not easy to kill Tetto, and his unit can easily avoid unsafe combat...

You fighting for skink priests which are much less defended.

I'm not investing much into Tetto... Just his base cost and some CORE points...

I'm not sure they can avoid an unsafe combat.

They're Toughness 2 skinks. You have no other big blocks - your Saurus block is small. And to be honest, all someone has to do is tie the Slann up with Fast Cav or skirmishers and tie the skinks up with just about anything and you've lost over half your spellcasting capabilities. You seem to be adamant that this skink block will keep your level 2 loremaster safe.

Well, let's just put it this way. They're WS 2, T2 Skinks whose combat prowess is wholly reliant on the I1 Kroxigor.

Goblins will give this unit a hard time, hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s. Skink cohorts with that footprint - since I'm assuming your second rank is going to be Krox-Tetto-Krox are not that mobile or maneuverable as a skirmishing unit with its unlimited free reforms.

And the problem is? Should any half decent combat unit or cav unit connect with those skinks? That unit is gone. They will obliterate them to such a degree that not even the Krox will be able to claw it back. They're T2 skinks. Considering most cav units will hit at minimum S4, average S5 they are going to just wipe away swathes of skinks in one turn.

IDK, I've done fine using that unit thus far. If I feel a need to change it I will.

I've been mainly playing against Empire and Tomb Kings recently so I might be a bit biased. I try to make my lists universal tournament-y so maybe if I try it against other armies it won't work so well *shrug*

But, I've been using Lord Kroak solo and I like it a bit better so here is the new list I've been doing.



Lord Kroak

Tetto'Eko
Scar-Veteran (Carnosaur w/Loping Stride)

15 Saurus Warriors (Full Command)
22 Skink Cohorts (Full Command, 2 Kroxigors)
10 Skink Skirmishers (Lustrian Javelins and Shields)

5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks
5 Chameleon Skinks

Troglodon
Troglodon

I appreciate you are trying to do something different but i just don't see why you take 2 trogs in an army with only 16 guys who can't benefit from it.

Surely that 400 points can be used far more efficiently and effectively.

Those points could grab you all kinds such more saurus for a start and a steg or ancient steg, a bastildon or 2, terradons, rippers, sallies.

just seems all out of shape to me.

Wow. That's...even worse than the first list.

Kroak solo?

Kroak is made to synergise with units and with the Arcane Vassal rule. His spell is direct damage, meaning it can be cast through skinks while his unit is in combat. Skinks are mobile thus can get all over the enemy line - turning each priest into an AoE bubble that can affect the entire enemy line with one turn of movement - particularly if one of them has the cloak of feathers.

Kroak also makes a unit of Temple Guard he's with unbreakable. So a nice big unit of unbreakable Temple Guard can tie up anything for the longest time...let's not forget that they too will cause Fear because of Kroak and his mask gives a -1 penalty for shooting and combat against that unit.

Mixer nailed the point for Troglodons. 2 of them is unneccessary, especially in rare - considering you could also have ancient stegadons and salamanders and you also have a severe shortage of units that actually benefit from their roar.

You are still very much at the whim of the dice, still far too reliant on Tetto'Eko and still not using things the right way. Kroak is virtually designed to synergise with a big block of Temple Guard - he buffs the crap out of them in three ways (Fear, Unbreakable, -1 to hit the unit).

He also seems to be designed around Skink Priests and Troglodons with Arcane Vassal.

I think the problem we have here is that you are not quite used to the fact that Lizardmen are now very much the Eldar of WFB.

Every unit is designed to synergise with other units and really, they have to be used together for success.

could you give your slaan the flying carpet? then he could get out of his own way and avoid getting trapped.

buckero0 wrote:
could you give your slaan the flying carpet? then he could get out of his own way and avoid getting trapped.

No. The Slaan has a rule where he is never counted as "being on foot". No flying carpet, no transforming into a hydra.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
could you give your slaan the flying carpet? then he could get out of his own way and avoid getting trapped.

No. The Slaan has a rule where he is never counted as "being on foot". No flying carpet, no transforming into a hydra.

-Matt

Quite right, plus Kroak is a special character so cannot be given anymore kit.

Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

 mixer86 wrote:


Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

Nope, just Temple Guard. Eternity Guardians.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:


Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

Nope, just Temple Guard. Eternity Guardians.

I'm gonna have to check that when i get home coz i thought that was the rule in the old book but now the new book says he makes the "unit" he joins unbreakable.

because slann no longer HAVE to join a TG unit if there is one it would therefore convey to any unit he joined, such as a standard suaurs unit.

 mixer86 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:


Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

Nope, just Temple Guard. Eternity Guardians.

I'm gonna have to check that when i get home coz i thought that was the rule in the old book but now the new book says he makes the "unit" he joins unbreakable.

because slann no longer HAVE to join a TG unit if there is one it would therefore convey to any unit he joined, such as a standard suaurs unit.

It is Temple Guard. I just checked.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:


Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

Nope, just Temple Guard. Eternity Guardians.

I'm gonna have to check that when i get home coz i thought that was the rule in the old book but now the new book says he makes the "unit" he joins unbreakable.

because slann no longer HAVE to join a TG unit if there is one it would therefore convey to any unit he joined, such as a standard suaurs unit.

It is Temple Guard. I just checked.

If so then fair enough.

Best place for him anyway

To be fair, he also grants the Temple Guard his Fear as well.

 mixer86 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:


Also Kroak makes ANY unit he joins unbreakable IIRC, not just TG.

Nope, just Temple Guard. Eternity Guardians.

I'm gonna have to check that when i get home coz i thought that was the rule in the old book but now the new book says he makes the "unit" he joins unbreakable.

because slann no longer HAVE to join a TG unit if there is one it would therefore convey to any unit he joined, such as a standard suaurs unit.

It is Temple Guard. I just checked.

If so then fair enough.

Best place for him anyway

A normal slann is bad enough as it is a stubborn on a 9/10, which means if the unit gets killed to 1 model, then your slann is pretty boned. Hence I prefer saurus as a bunker. Scar Vets are wondrously cheap and have easy access to a 2+ armour. and Oldbloods are fairly cheap with access to a 1+/4++. They fill up the front rank, and voila, an impromptu bunker for the frog that is cheaper, can declare flee reactions, and isn't ITP. The last one is a blessing and a curse.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
To be fair, he also grants the Temple Guard his Fear as well.

And he makes it unbreakable, so it will literally get killed around him. I really don't think putting a Slann in temple guard is a good idea. For a start, the unit is awfully schizophrenic. They want to be in combat, but die far too easily without buffs. And it means risking the slann getting in combat. Now. If you have Kroak, it's not so bad, but when you have a level 4 BSB slann, and you fail your stubborn, you lose the game.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

And he makes it unbreakable, so it will literally get killed around him. I really don't think putting a Slann in temple guard is a good idea. For a start, the unit is awfully schizophrenic. They want to be in combat, but die far too easily without buffs. And it means risking the slann getting in combat. Now. If you have Kroak, it's not so bad, but when you have a level 4 BSB slann, and you fail your stubborn, you lose the game.

The unit is meant to be an anvil. Most Slann will run an augment heavy lore - Light, Life and High Magic all have fantastic augments and a big stubborn block of Ld 9, cold blooded, rerolling temple guard has a very, very small chance of breaking. Even more miniscule should you put the standard of discipline in there.

People seem to forget that the Slann can still cast augments and hexes normally while in combat and should you have sufficient Arcane Vassals (Skink Priests and Troglodons) you will still have the ability to cast magic missiles and direct damage as well.

Really.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

And he makes it unbreakable, so it will literally get killed around him. I really don't think putting a Slann in temple guard is a good idea. For a start, the unit is awfully schizophrenic. They want to be in combat, but die far too easily without buffs. And it means risking the slann getting in combat. Now. If you have Kroak, it's not so bad, but when you have a level 4 BSB slann, and you fail your stubborn, you lose the game.

The unit is meant to be an anvil. Most Slann will run an augment heavy lore - Light, Life and High Magic all have fantastic augments and a big stubborn block of Ld 9, cold blooded, rerolling temple guard has a very, very small chance of breaking. Even more miniscule should you put the standard of discipline in there.

People seem to forget that the Slann can still cast augments and hexes normally while in combat and should you have sufficient Arcane Vassals (Skink Priests and Troglodons) you will still have the ability to cast magic missiles and direct damage as well.

Really.

LD 10 rerollable isn't as great as it is cracked up to be. I've seen a Pendant lord run down by ungor. I think that putting a Slann anywhere near combat is just a risky idea considering the current popularity of WoC. Nurgle Warriors will eat their way through a light, and more than likely a life buffed unit too.

Cold blooded Ld10 has a 1.8% chance to fail. Chuck a reroll in there at it is 0.03% or 3 in 10,000!!! Yeah it is all its cracked up to be...