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How do these stack up Vs the following and why would I take them over the following:

Vs NightWings
Vs Wasp Assault walkers
Vs Warp Spiders

On paper new hornets are super nasty.

Basically before the were very good but that was offset by being a little expensive.

Now they are very inexpensive for the amount of shots they put out and the new rule that allows them to snapfire while turboboosting is amazing since with farseers you will reroll hits and they will get a very good jink save.

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 12 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Your right 12 shots sorry still amazing

I see.

I eagerly await my new rule book in the mail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
can you ruff out a ponts cost for me please so I can start playing with ideas. The rule book is likely still a week away.

I recently had a thread on the subject here where you will find a few more opinions.

Thank you.

No worries. My thread went under anyway though I was still looking to discuss them, so it is nice to see a new one. So thank you for essentially bringing it back to life.

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 24 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Wait, I thought a pulse laser was 2 shots each? Meaning a unit of 3 hornets is shooting 12 shots total.

I still have not been able to find the new rules for these guys just the ones that are in the IA 11 book.

based off the points costs and that fact that Warphunters kind of got nerfed with the new rules would mean that I would likely start taking war walkers and maybe a pair of wraith knights.

The question I have is are 2 "New Rule" hornets worth taking in a FA slot over a nightwing?

Yeah.

Flat out with free snap shots!
This means you can get to a flyers' rear arc more often, and you were snap shotting at flyers anyway.

If you got a squad of 2 that means 8 48" s8 AP2 shots for the cost of a Crimson Hunter, which will start shooting in turn one and don't need an autarch/comms relay. AV11 and a better jink save, possible holofields as well.
If you allow FW units it's a no brainer IMO.

autopilot wrote:

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 24 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Wait, I thought a pulse laser was 2 shots each? Meaning a unit of 3 hornets is shooting 12 shots total.

Yeah but they have 2 Pulse Lasers each.

I was considering the crimson hunter for my eldar army but given how awesome the hornets are with pulse lasers, I might consider two or three of them instead.

The only downside vs the hunter is not hitting them on 6's and no skyhunter rule, but higher armour and holofield more than make up for that imo.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

autopilot wrote:

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 24 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Wait, I thought a pulse laser was 2 shots each? Meaning a unit of 3 hornets is shooting 12 shots total.

Yeah but they have 2 Pulse Lasers each.

Yeah, so 3*2*2 = 12

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

autopilot wrote:

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 24 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Wait, I thought a pulse laser was 2 shots each? Meaning a unit of 3 hornets is shooting 12 shots total.

Yeah but they have 2 Pulse Lasers each.

Yeah, so 3*2*2 = 12

You're right, I can't math.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

autopilot wrote:

Basically a 3 honet unit is relatively inexpensive, puts out 24 str 8 ap 2 shots and can touch anything on the board from almost any angle.

Wait, I thought a pulse laser was 2 shots each? Meaning a unit of 3 hornets is shooting 12 shots total.

Yeah but they have 2 Pulse Lasers each.

Yeah, so 3*2*2 = 12

Sorry, misread what you were saying completely. Not much sleep

You can certainly make an arguement for the Nightwing IMO. It is much harder to hit, comes with Agile/Shrouded which means when it Jinks it is a PAIN to bring down.

I like its weapons outfitting more than the Crimson Hunter and it is cheaper.

Still love Hornets too though....they are simply beasts.

What I am thinking is maybe run 2 Night Wings and 1 X 2 Hornets for the extra scoring unit in the scouring mission. and its a nice surprise when the hornet flank and blap a pain my butt arty or some sort (a lot of guard players in my meta) Might be a good answer to riptides as well as they can kite them around the board without worry of being able to shoot them.

I think If I can find a way to kit bash 2 Ill take 2 nightwings and 2 hornets. Any Ideas on kit bashing these things for proper size so I'm not modeling for advantage.

Lots of dakka for a good price. 4+ jink with holo fields but thin armor. The only problem I see with hornets is when mixed with wave serpents it makes an opponent's target priority easy.

All depending. Sometimes when firing a big weapon the opponent will go for the AV12 with the argument that, while he is able to hurt he might as well try. You can also try and throw the Serpents in a position to bait fire, knowing that they can probably take it.

I find one other problem Hornets have over Walkers of a similar build is the lack of Battle Focus; being able to move into LOS, shoot, and then back out is always a big favourite of mine. However this is just a case of getting used to the Hornet's different tactics.

There are of course /some/ things that Hornets don't do as well as comparable choices, but they're /so/ much better at their core job of making things blow up that I think it's very hard to make a case for anything similar over Hornets, excepting possibly 2xBL Walkers if you see a lot of AV14.

A Hornet costs significantly less than a Nightwing and has more firepower, and matches a Crimson Hunter's output in most cases. For their points they're just about as durable, especially if you're moving flat out when in danger of being shot. The Hornet is about as good at shooting down flyers for cost too since the Eldar flyers spend a bunch of turns jinking.

Walkers can Battle Focus, but Hornets have an extra 12" of range and can move 36" before firing if necessary, or 12" while firing at full effect. They don't /need/ to be able to move back into cover in the face of most weapons in the game. And they're more durable when shot at, of course.

Their range also allows you to continue to tank with Serpents. The Hornets have no need to be close, and can remain way back while your Serpents advance. Only Deep Strikers will have much of an opportunity to shoot them. A Hornet is probably more durable for its points in the face of Deep Strikers than a Serpent (without its Shield) is anyway (both will often take rear armor hits in this situation).

Given the models, I expect I would run as many as 5 Hornets, maybe even taking up all of my FA slots. Even Warp Spiders are a lot less appealing with them around - Hornets get only half as many hits per point, but they have much longer range, higher strength even against vehicles, and AP2. A Wraithknight can cover AV14, or I can try to glance it to death, since 5 Guided Hornets put out about 3 glances per turn. Then basically all of the rest of the list would be devoted to killing hordes.

Some neat numbers, just for consideration: 2 Guided Hornets can move flat out 36" and still expect to score 2 S8 wounds on T4, taking full advantage of the wound allocation rules and probably ignoring all cover other than area terrain. 3 Guided Hornets expect to wipe a 5++ Riptide from the board in one salvo. 2 Guided Hornets expect to score 1.6 penetrating hits on an AV10 flyer, and they can move 36" to hit rear armor.

Great post. I forgot that with 48" range you can actually use that defensively to stay way back out of range of the enemy, especially since 36" range weapons seem to be all the rage these days.

The only thing that I can't see hornets doing well is anti horde, but there are warwalkers for that with scatter lasers.