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After the Rubric of Ahriman (probably the most badass psychic power in 40k I've ever seen) and then after the events of Ahriman; Exile, the Thousand Sons' armour goes from red to blue, which is how we see them now. Seen as Ahriman did that to his Legion, did he usurp control of them? Or is Magnus still the boss? Or are the individual Sorcerors in control of small numbers of Rubricae and answer to no-one?

I may be wrong about this but Magnus seems to sit in a tower and is controlled by the will of Tzeench (as are all the other daemon primarchs in their own way). I believe Ahriman is the one running the show.

That was my thought. Though he must shift the power to the Sorcerers, he can't control every Rubricae at once

Yeah, I think Ahriman holds more sway than Magnus at this point.
Old Maggie hasn't been up to much it seems in the last few thousand years, and unlike the other Daemon Primarchs he wouldn't even meet with Abaddon, who then went to Ahriman instead.

Lesson 1 of being a Primarch; don't let someone else run the Legion, Ahriman has hardly done the Thousand Sons proud.
Do you reckon Ahriman controls all the Rubricae though?

I was always under the impression that a good portion of the Thousand Sons where still loyal to Magnus and although he never leaves the Eye of Terror, they still go around and do his bidding and the Ahriman and his Thousand Sons are kinda like renegades. If this is wrong, I'm interested to know who really is in control of the 'ole Thousand Sons.

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:
I was always under the impression that a good portion of the Thousand Sons where still loyal to Magnus and although he never leaves the Eye of Terror, they still go around and do his bidding and the Ahriman and his Thousand Sons are kinda like renegades. If this is wrong, I'm interested to know who really is in control of the 'ole Thousand Sons.

They are renegades, the ones Ahriman took over. I just dunno how many he controls, how many Magnus has, how many are led by individual Sorcerers

"...they are little more than automatons. they quickly fall into inactivity unless a sorcerer is nearby to direct them..."
(chaos space marines codex, pg 45, paragraph 4, line 3)

i always assumed they are simply controlled by the sorcerer directing them...besides, in the throws of chaos the only ones in charge are the gods themselves, loyalty is bought or earned in most cases. but it is never guaranteed..


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on a side note, where can i read these fluffy thoughts?
(whats your guy's sources of info on the topic?)

 13whited wrote:
"...they are little more than automatons. they quickly fall into inactivity unless a sorcerer is nearby to direct them..."
(chaos space marines codex, pg 45, paragraph 4, line 3)

i always assumed they are simply controlled by the sorcerer directing them...besides, in the throws of chaos the only ones in charge are the gods themselves, loyalty is bought or earned in most cases. but it is never guaranteed..

Yeah but which Sorcerers? and who are those Sorcerers loyal to? Ahriman or Magnus?

Good point. So they're led by the nearest Sorcerer, look blue because of Ahriman (if you believe the book anyway) and basically Magnus is twiddling his Daemonic thumbs in the EoT... Seems the wrong way wrong but hey, such is Tzeentch and 40k


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My source is Ahriman; Exile, new BL book, John French, £8.99 GBP

 TheCrazyCryptek wrote:

 13whited wrote:
"...they are little more than automatons. they quickly fall into inactivity unless a sorcerer is nearby to direct them..."
(chaos space marines codex, pg 45, paragraph 4, line 3)

i always assumed they are simply controlled by the sorcerer directing them...besides, in the throws of chaos the only ones in charge are the gods themselves, loyalty is bought or earned in most cases. but it is never guaranteed..

Yeah but which Sorcerers? and who are those Sorcerers loyal to? Ahriman or Magnus?

as i said, loyalty is faint in the chaos armies. as far as i can understand the only true loyalty in chaos is one to his or her preferred chaotic god...and perhaps Abaddon

It's probably a case of the Sorcerers don't give a feth about the Rubricae they lead, so long as they cause carnage and protect them whilst they unleash psyker hell. They hate Ahriman for what he did to their Legion I expect

actually, in the codex, it also say's that some of them are simply used as guards for a sorcerer as they continue study's. while i doubt a sorcerer would care about any thousand sons under their control, i doubt they care about what Ahriman because he DID after all protect all thousand sons from mutating...and besides, any sorcerers left sane and alive don't care, they are still sane and alive

Thousand Sons are fragmented among various Sorcerer-lords, but the two main factions are Magnus who rules from the Planet of Sorcerers and largely lets his minions do whatever they want, and the Prodigal Sons under Ahriman who mostly is trying to seek out the Black Library. Magnus and Ahriman are on very, very bad terms. The former is also not allied with Abaddon while the latter is.

Eye of Terror politics, yo.

i'll stick out of it...i'll just continue spreading the gift of pestilence and death throughout the galaxy

IIRC the Thousand Sons are pretty fractured. I always pictured it as lots of disparate Sorcerers leading around their warbands of Rubric Marines, doing whatever they felt like doing. Ahriman seems to hold sway over a lot of Rubric Marines and Sorcerers (I guess by successfully plundering so many magical goodies over the years).

I know that if you look in the CSM codex, pg. 32 in the box at the bottom. It does state that many of the Thousand Sons still study magic under Magnus the Red, so he must be up to something at the moment.

"...many Sorcerers of that Legion still study magic at the feet of their Daemon Primarch, Magnus the Red, and are justifiably considered the most accomplished of all their kind."

Magnus is still the Boss of the legion and what he wanted would go. But as with many, if not all, of the traitor Legions the Thousand Sons are a fractured legion and individual warbands roam the stars with their own agendas at heart.

Should Magnus call they would generally answer though

Ahriman is an outcast from the Legion and has his own cabal of Sorecers and Rubricae and is more active in the Imperium.

Magnus has been out and about and is a protagonist in Battle of the Fang, Chaos Child and he's featured in a Space Wolves novels although i am not sure which one it is, the one where Ragnar pokes him in the eye.

Magnus is still around, but he doesn't come out of his tower and other than screaming for Ahriman's head for the Rubric he hasn't done really anything to lead the remains of the legion.

The top sorcerers essentially created their own warbands and ran off. Ahriman went into hiding for a long time. At some point he decided it was time to return and has already taken over a good size portion of the legion.

To sum up: no one is completely in charge. Ahriman has his band of merry men, Magnus isn't involved, while others have their own groups.

You absolutely must read Ahriman: Exile. It was fantastic.

Like most Traitor Legions in M41, I believe they exist as a Legion in name only. The reality of the situation being that they've fractured into various cabals, warbands, cults and so forth under the authority (for now) of a particularly-favored Champion of Tzeentch.

Magnus is basically a Chaos Yukari Yakumo. It's stated that he watches the galaxy through that giant eye hovering above his tower and when someone or something catches his interest, he sends his minions to fetch it and bring it back. "Spiriting away", so to speak. So while he doesn't do much directly (although he has tried to set foot in the material realm on at least two occasions, both of which ended up having him get stabbed in the eye), he does a lot behind the scenes.

Just like any good Tzeentch follower is supposed to do, really.

Also, Ahriman is an exile from the Thousand Sons. I doubt he has anywhere near the amount of followers that Magnus has. That said, at least according to the Space Wolf novels, there really aren't many Thousand Sons around either way in the first place by now.

It's also stated that Ahriman and Magnus are starting to patch up,relations, too, thanks to Ahriman's latest exploits. Unless there's a new development or retcon there I'm not aware of.

Magnus the Red has left the Eye of Terror more than any other Daemon Primarch, and he did this in a time frame of a thousand years, constantly harrying and trolling the Space Wolves and fething gak up. This led to the Battle of the Fang.

Magnus still controls the bulk of the Thousand Sons as a legion.

Ahriman is NOT the leader of the thousand sons. He wasn't really in the first place, and after the rubric, he was exiled. He's no more the leader of the thousand sons than fabius bile is the leader of the emperor's children.

The closest he came to ruling over the thousand sons was when magnus temporarily left to go off and become a demon prince. In the primarch's absence, ahriman and a junta of other sorcerers sneaked in and cast the rubric. When magnus came back and saw what had happened, he banished ahriman.

Even though they still have their primarch, magnus is so wrapped up in his own personal thing that he can't be bothered to lead his legion in battle anymore, which lead to it disintegrating into warbands while magnus was off reading scrolls, or whatever.

Ha,ha, You may think it is Ahriman or Magnus but it is realy Tzeench that is holding the threads!

Magnus was actually the first Daemon Primarch, he ascended directly after the razing of Prospero.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Magnus has been out and about and is a protagonist in Battle of the Fang, Chaos Child and he's featured in a Space Wolves novels although i am not sure which one it is, the one where Ragnar pokes him in the eye.

He's in two of the space wolves books - the one where he's poked in the eye and the one where Ragnar threatens to poke him in the eye *again!*.

Obviously, this being a fate worse than death for Magnus, he completely forgets he's a primarch again (This being after his memory started to go in the Battle of the Fang) and that he could melt Ragnar with eyeball lasers and runs away.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Magnus has been out and about and is a protagonist in Battle of the Fang, Chaos Child and he's featured in a Space Wolves novels although i am not sure which one it is, the one where Ragnar pokes him in the eye.

He's in two of the space wolves books - the one where he's poked in the eye and the one where Ragnar threatens to poke him in the eye *again!*.

Not the same eye!? Oh wait ...

AFAIK the situation is following:
Most sorcerer lords' have their own war covens (TS warbands) and are almost independent, yet they still use Sorcerers Planet as heir homeworld, share the knowledge they get in their quests, benefit from Legion armory and dark mechanicum pacts and still fight and backstab each other for the ranks in their temples despite those ranks have no sense since Legion get fractured. Magnus considrerd to be a boss an to be obejed by any non-exiled TS, but after the Siege of Fang he never assemled the Legion in a full strength. Tere was a mentions in older fluff that due to Rubric changed the souls of both Golems and Sorcerers they cannot be absorbet by warp enteties, so Magnus could resurect his falen sorcerers unless they get killed by some super-special way that damages soul - I imagine thie to be VERY good reason to keep your loyality to the Primarch instead of going fully renegade like Ahriman.

Magnus doesn't have a physical body anymore does he? Just a glowing warp essence one now if the HH book is anything to go by, right?

Also, isn't he brooding in his tower trying to figure out a way to reverse the rubric or was that never officially quoted anywhere?

Mellow wrote:
Magnus doesn't have a physical body anymore does he? Just a glowing warp essence one now if the HH book is anything to go by, right?

He does not have a physical bodu, but he can conjure one with his psychic powers.
Or more than one: in the Sege of Fang it was mentioned that he can sustain multiple (albeit weakened) bodies in the different places. And even one of such "weakened" body was powerful enough to paralyze most of the entire Space Wolves chapter for a few minutes. H still need a host to manifest at his full power, though, but I bet he rarely need his full power as he can kill people on the other side of the Galaxy and nuke cities with his mind without even leaving his Black Tower on the Sorcerers Planet and his conjured bodies are good enough for the most times his plans need him to step on the field personally.

Mellow wrote:
Also, isn't he brooding in his tower trying to figure out a way to reverse the rubric or was that never officially quoted anywhere?

AFAIK he accepted Rubric as a necessary evil and don't try to reverse it. Maybe because he know it is impossible.