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I've played 40k for many years. Being passionate about my hobbies I have invested a great deal of my time into this franchise because I find it to be wonderfully enticing and evocative.

That being said, it has pretty much ruined me on other works of fiction. I don't want this to devolve into "which came first" thread because we can all agree that many concepts in 40k are present in works that came before it... but here are a few things I have experienced that 40k has basically ruined for me.

HALO:
The Spartan Project is basically the Space Marine Project under a different name. They have a form of powered armor which they physically connect with. They are fighting the Covenant (Tau) for the first few games and in 4 they meet the Forerunners (Eldar) that are jaw-droppingly accurate imitations of their 40k counterparts.

STAR WARS: (really only the crappy new ones).
OMG The first one was basically a Tau Drone army invasion. It's not a humorous as Halo because the correlation is not as slap you in the face obvious, but the links are there... the Jedi are the Inquisition, the whole Separatist/Loyalist war is analogous for the IoM. I'll be damned if General Greivous wasn't a Necron Lord with a Pariah retinue.

Pretty much anything by Blizzard (Warcraft/StarCraft) is a direct rip from GW IP. but that's obvious and has a legal history that doesn't need to be brought up here.

Anyone else notice theses things?

No I have not.

40k ruins things for me in the sense that everything else feels inadequate. I can't read any other fiction than 40k for example.

I doubt Halo was an intentionally similar to 40k, and possibly largely due to the need to make the game playable, as when facing an alien army who are technolgically and physically superior to your typical human, you need to play as some kind of super-soldier or you'll just die. Also, Halo is pure sci-fi, where the defining aspect of 40k is that it is largely fantasy in space, with knights (marines), peasants (IG), witches (psykers) ect. I can see how you would draw the comparisons, but on the whole, it seems that you are looking for them. I have loved both universes for years, and my interest in one has never diminished the power of the other. It's the same with LOTR and WFB, there are parallels, but they are distinct enough to enjoy both.

As for Star Wars, it does share the 'fantasy in space' themes, again with knights and magicians in the Jedi, but I don't see the comparison with Inquisition, as the jedi are all about keeping peace and order, whereas the Inq are focused on war and how to win it. Also, the Loyalist/Seperatists and Empire/Rebels is not really similar to IOM other than that is a war between 2 factions within a system. Where Star Wars does have an influence on 40k is that the Original Trilogy was pretty much the leading Sci-fi when 40k was being formed, along with Dune and a few others, so naturally there is a little crossover there.

On the whole, Sci-fi of any kind plays on the same themes: Robots/Drones, telepaths/psykers/jedi, Primitive aliens (nid, orks), advanced aliens (Crons, eldar, tau). Where 40k is perhaps unique is that is has a little of everything. Basically, the parallels exist if you make them, as with any two IPs within a genre, but if you just enjoy each for what it is, then they can all be equally enjoyable.

I wouldn't say that it ruins other series or fantasy settings for me, though I can often see that 40K influences, and is influenced by, a wealth of other fictions. In a lot of cases, though, I find that I sometimes prefer the origin stories (the ones that influenced 40K) and can appreciate a good tale that is influenced by 40K.

Though I really wouldn't say that the Star Wars prequels are a Tau/Necron vs Jedi/Inquisition thing. I mean, sure, you can apply the parallels.... sort of... but you have to really bend 40K lore into odd shapes to make it fit.

 Psienesis wrote:
I wouldn't say that it ruins other series or fantasy settings for me, though I can often see that 40K influences, and is influenced by, a wealth of other fictions. In a lot of cases, though, I find that I sometimes prefer the origin stories (the ones that influenced 40K) and can appreciate a good tale that is influenced by 40K.

Though I really wouldn't say that the Star Wars prequels are a Tau/Necron vs Jedi/Inquisition thing. I mean, sure, you can apply the parallels.... sort of... but you have to really bend 40K lore into odd shapes to make it fit.

While I agree with your overall sentiment, the second I saw Episode I, I thought "Tau!"

All science fiction borrows from all other science fiction, sometimes quite liberally. Read Dune, then watch Star Wars and read some 40k fluff. Dune and Starship Troopers are basically the genesis of everything you know and love in the 41st millennium.

I've never experienced this phenomenon. To me, 40k didn't ruin anything, just like Dune or Judge Dredd etc didn't ruin 40k. Sometimes I see similarities, details that may have been inspired by 40k, or which 40k was inspired by, but I really don't register this as offensive in any way. As Brother SRM mentioned, art influences art, and the idea that to notice these things would "ruin" something sounds like someone who should avoid anything they did not already read or see, because in this day and age, nothing is an entirely new idea, as every writer is, however subconsciously, inspired by the material he or she used to consume when they were young.

On the contrary, actually. I think it's "cool" when I see something which I believe to be a nod to another thing I like. After all, isn't imitation a form of flattery, too?
It doesn't matter at all whether something is "stolen" - what matters is how you do it. The end result must obviously still feel unique and possess its own theme, rather than appearing like a cheap knock-off. 40k is a good example of how to do it right.

Though I'm a big fan of 40k, if anything I see the reverse - constant nods within 40k to all of the things they've borrowed from.

I don't like Halo or anything that Blizzard puts out either, but I don't think 40k ruined them. (Halo and Blizzard did a good enough job ruining their own work )

40k is its own distinct world, and I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing when it comes to fandom. (Highlander fans are remarkably good at that I've found. Almost as if we've had practice with completely ignoring certain blocks of the movies they love )

The scale of 40k has desensitized me to things in other novels. But It's not ruined for me.

Some people have said the end of Mass Effect 3 basically kicked off the Age of Strife.

I mean anytime I see space marines against tyranids I think of the movie Ailens, and sometimes starship troopers.

Because those guys were literally space marines, and the enemy was giant exoskeleton bugs.

What is meant by "ruined" by 40k I think is to find the "grim/dark" it offers.

Most sci-fi still borrows from the classics where a "hope for the future" is offered even in dark settings such as cyberpunk rather than "picture a boot stomping on a face forever".

Many new novels are coming out in a steampunk setting which find ways to include zombies, there could soon be some competition.

Hope for the future is good, but in a game setting where no group is truly a "good guy" it is guilt-free to be ruthless.

 Icculus wrote:
I mean anytime I see space marines against tyranids I think of the movie Ailens, and sometimes starship troopers.

Because those guys were literally space marines, and the enemy was giant exoskeleton bugs.

It's no coincidence that Space Hulk looks and feels very much like Aliens: The Board Game. I'm just glad they were slightly more subtle with it so you didn't have Brother Sergeant Apone and Honorable Brother Hicks.

Brother SRM wrote:It's no coincidence that Space Hulk looks and feels very much like Aliens: The Board Game. I'm just glad they were slightly more subtle with it so you didn't have Brother Sergeant Apone and Honorable Brother Hicks.

No, no, no. Those would belong into the Guard.

The Chronicles of Riddick is certainly resemblant of 40k. In turn, it may have inspired the (later) Dark Eldar range.

Starship Troopers the movie is too close to 40k in looks, tone and feel to ignore. Some might argue that it resembles 40k even more than its alleged source material. GW took the nod by incorporating the aesthetics of the Mobile Infantry as depicted in the movie to their Imperial Guard range.

China Mièville's genre-defying style of writing, equal parts high-concept and pop, sometimes brings back echoes of late RT/early 2nd. ed. 40k to me. Of course, it can be due to common sources of inspiration (Lovecraft, Gene Wolfe and maybe M. John Harrison), but there are enough interesting parallels between Mieville's fictional universes and 40k to suspect a certain (mutual) influence.

Alastair Reynolds' baroque "grimdark meets hard sci-fi" universe may or may not take cues from WH40k.

The Tau borrow heavily from progressivist science fiction. The sorely missed Iain M. Banks comes to mind: His "Culture", like the Tau, is also an enlightened, technologically advanced society whose idealism often conflicts with its not-so-veiled ambitions of hegemony.

The Necrons were mechanical lovecraftian abominations until their fifth edition codex transformed them into Daleks/Cybermen (complete with time-altering technologies) under the guise of Tomb Kings. Incidentially, the codex must have been writen at the apex of RTD-era Doctor Who's popularity.

40k is a universe still in the making. As it evolves, it brings more cultural influences into the fold, some of which may in turn have been influenced by 40k. Future iterations of 40k may absorb influences from Halo or Starcraft. It how this universe works.

Finally, just say that 40k hasn't "ruined" anything for me. In fact, my hobby encourages me to read even more science fiction!


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Oh, please GW. Bring back Trooper Vasquez

I think some of you may have been reading too far into my statements.

When I say that WH40k has ruined other works of fiction for me, I do not mean that those other works of fiction are somehow less than what they were. But knowing 40k as intimately as I do, I can recognize is likeness in other things.

I am a big fan of the Halo franchise. I own an XBOX 360 exclusively for those titles. They are not something I look down on because they borrowed from 40k. If anything, I admire it more. Likewise I have a bit of a soft spot for the Star Wars movies. I grew up with the original films and can watch the new ones without bleeding out the eyes because I see them through rose colored glasses.

As with anything though, first impressions are powerful. I've known 40k longer than I have known the Blizzard games (which I actually dislike completely by their own merit - or lack of). Having been exposed to it first, I see it in the things that follow, that's natural. But it also does sort of ruin them in a way. Follow me into hypothetical land for a moment:

I've never seen any movies, played any games, heard any music, or read any books. By chance I find myself watching Star Wars. because I have nothing else to compare it to, it is a genuinely new experience. everything that is presents to me I can either like or dislike based on my assessment of its intrinsic value. I have no other impressions to compare against it.

I had tried to avoid making this a "you know you play 40k too much when..." thread because I think those attract a sort of negative attention. But now I feel like I've done worse, lol

 En Excelsis wrote:
I think some of you may have been reading too far into my statements.

When I say that WH40k has ruined other works of fiction for me, I do not mean that those other works of fiction are somehow less than what they were. But knowing 40k as intimately as I do, I can recognize is likeness in other things.

I am a big fan of the Halo franchise. I own an XBOX 360 exclusively for those titles. They are not something I look down on because they borrowed from 40k. If anything, I admire it more. Likewise I have a bit of a soft spot for the Star Wars movies. I grew up with the original films and can watch the new ones without bleeding out the eyes because I see them through rose colored glasses.

As with anything though, first impressions are powerful. I've known 40k longer than I have known the Blizzard games (which I actually dislike completely by their own merit - or lack of). Having been exposed to it first, I see it in the things that follow, that's natural. But it also does sort of ruin them in a way. Follow me into hypothetical land for a moment:

I've never seen any movies, played any games, heard any music, or read any books. By chance I find myself watching Star Wars. because I have nothing else to compare it to, it is a genuinely new experience. everything that is presents to me I can either like or dislike based on my assessment of its intrinsic value. I have no other impressions to compare against it.

I had tried to avoid making this a "you know you play 40k too much when..." thread because I think those attract a sort of negative attention. But now I feel like I've done worse, lol

Whats wrong with Lost Vikings?!?

The great thing about 40k fiction is that there is such a wealth of it. The black library is constantly pushing out new content. Whereas other popular fictions can only push out a book or 2 a year.

Well, try this:

Imagine you're making a brand new sci-fi universe all of your own. Now, you'll obviously be making some sort of human faction, as well as some alien. Just take a minute to form those in your mind. List some key points about them, maybe write a general overview.

Now, take a minute and look at those again. It's more than likely that at least a part of them is similar to something else you've seen or read in sci-fi, be it from Halo, 40K, Dune, etc. Fact of the matter is that these will have been subconciousl influenced by what you've seen, and that goes for new Sci fi that you see too. Whether it's an intentional nod, or subconciously similar, writing in that genre will effect other works in the same genre.

As for whether it effects me as a a consumer, I don't think so. You notice these similarities, but I don't think much on it.

Oh, not sure if that "some" included me, but whatever the case apologies if I sounded harsh. Actually I thought the point of the thread was listing the things that remind you of or which you think may have been inspired by 40k.

Back on topic, I've never seen hints of 40k on Star Wars (excluding the sudden and unexpected turn to grimdark on the early Del Rey EU novels), and the nods to Star Wars within 40k (The Empire, armored warriors, exterminatus...) seem to be few and indirect, mostly coming from shared sources of inspiration (Golden Age sci-fi, comic books and the like). I know not everyone feels the same, but I've always thought GW had deliberately chosen to avoid Star Wars.

I don't know, after watching Ultramarine (I think it was called that) It makes the Star Wars Pre-quel master pieces.

I don't share the OP sentiments. I see 40K a blatant rip-off of everything, no originality at all. I have no problems with other Sci-Fi or Fantasy at all.

I find it funny the OP doesn't want to say that GW ripped off alot of stuff, but then he goes ahead and does the same thing. It's not a fair debate or discussion if it's only one sided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You do know that Blizzard's Starcraft was suppose to be 40K right?

Let's not forget the Lovecraftian nature of the Warp.
There's so much great science fiction out there that it would be a shame to narrow your reading to just Warhammer.

I've always though Halo ripped off the Starship troopers movies more than anything else. Pelican is the movie dropship...marine armor is practically identical to the movie armor...

The Chronicles of Riddick is certainly resemblant of 40k. In turn, it may have inspired the (later) Dark Eldar range.

Starship Troopers the movie is too close to 40k in looks, tone and feel to ignore. Some might argue that it resembles 40k even more than its alleged source material. GW took the nod by incorporating the aesthetics of the Mobile Infantry as depicted in the movie to their Imperial Guard range.

Well, Vin Diesel is an admitted "huge gaming nerd" and has been playing various RPGs, including Warhammer 40K, for 20+ years now. The 40K influences in the visual style of the Chronicles of Riddick are very, very intentional.

The original (book) Starship Troopers had the humans in power armor (Heinlein created the concept of power armor for sci-fi settings in that very book, as it so happens) shooting giant, intelligent bugs (only the latest in a long line of Xenos cultures "pacified" by the Mobile Infantry of humanity). The "IG" appearance in the film was not a 40K homage, specifically, but simply a budgetary constraint. They simply didn't have the budget to do CGI bugs and CGI Power Armor.

Davor wrote:
I don't know, after watching Ultramarine (I think it was called that) It makes the Star Wars Pre-quel master pieces.

I don't share the OP sentiments. I see 40K a blatant rip-off of everything, no originality at all. I have no problems with other Sci-Fi or Fantasy at all.

I find it funny the OP doesn't want to say that GW ripped off alot of stuff, but then he goes ahead and does the same thing. It's not a fair debate or discussion if it's only one sided.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You do know that Blizzard's Starcraft was suppose to be 40K right?

Wait.. huh? I don't want to say stuff but I do? ... only room enough in my head for one of us guy.

I have no pretenses about saying that certain franchises are rips of 40k. Hell I actually dislike Blizzard as a company for exactly that reason. They are basically thieves. I am quite certain that having an original thought would physically kill them.

As other posters have said, 40k borrows from many sources and many other stories borrow from it. That's not a bad thing as long as it's done respectfully. Being "inspired by" is different that being a bootleg copy. It's pretty common knowledge that Blizzard are thieves. they came to GW about making a WHF video game after having already coded it. Blizzard turned them down and they just renamed it the infinitely creative WarCraft. History follows. 40k was released and BAM! StarCraft!. While I will concede that WarCraft did eventually take off on it's own momentum years later, it was still a copy and legal infringement of IP law that simply didn't have the legal precedent is does now. That being said, it isn't shocking that StarCraft's release endangered Blizzard's franchise and they quickly "merged" with Activision so that under a unique legal bylaw their existing IP (including starcraft) would pass to new ownership - vesting it from GW, who was rightly furious.

It was actually brought up in my niece's Law School as an example.

Anyway...

My advice to the original poster would be to rush out and find a copy of Starship Troopers (the book, and I mean the original book, and not, heaven help you, the book based on the movie based on the book). Then read the other science fiction books of that era.

After you do that, then you'll have a proper understanding of "If we put a marine soldier in space, that makes him a space marine" and where it comes from. And if you're going to have problems caused by one work having too much similarity to other works that you were aware of before, you'll at least get the order right.

My brother has the "Skylanders" video game and the villan is called "Kaos" and his assistant is without a shadow of doubt a Gretchin.

Gretchin are goblins. And goblins have been around for years.

Anyone ever watch the movie Event Horizon and think that the movie could have been mans first venture into the warp before geller fields?