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The tracks/wheels debate still applies to military forces today, but in Warhammer 40K, the caterpillar track won. Thanks to the discovery of the Land Crawler and Land Raider, tracked vehicles are the mainstay of almost all Imperial Vehicle designs. A reasonable speed and the ability to traverse multiple types of terrain with ease make them ideal for military purposes.

But if wheels had to come into play, how would they be integrated? Could a Chimera be retrofitted with wheels over tracks, if repair supplies for the tracks were in short supply?

I don't see why not, but don't let the Tech-priest catch you or they'll boil your fat to grease the new track unit they'll put on when they have one...

I've seen unofficial conversion kits from Chapterhouse ... I admit they looked rather cool.
http://natfka.blogspot.ie/2011/05/chimera-conversion-rapid-response.html

As far as retrofitting is concerned, that could be difficult for multiple reasons. For starters, who says that wheels are more readily available than tank tracks? Secondly, would the Adeptus Mechanicus approve of such drastic alterations to a sacred STC pattern?
Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, such a retrofit might be much more complicated than is perhaps imagined at first. Yes, tank tracks also work by spinning an axle and (smaller) wheels, but the position of the drive axle is important, as it is usually much higher than on wheeled vehicles. To fit actual wheels capable of moving the vehicle, you would very likely have to rip half the chassis apart only to install some sort of monster wheel with a diameter of 4m or something.

Don't let such concerns stop you from building wheeled Chimaeras, though! They can easily be justified by naming them a local non-standard pattern of the regiment's world. Yes, Codex fluff makes a point regarding galactic standardisation for the Imperial Guard, but when there's novels and RPGs who kind of circumvent or outright ignore this detail, then you can, too.

 Ascalam wrote:
I don't see why not, but don't let the Tech-priest catch you or they'll boil your fat to grease the new track unit they'll put on when they have one...

The IoM has wheeled vehicles. Elysians / FW.

Without knowing the Munitorum and other Organizations vehicle park we could have the tracked ones just in the spotlight of battle, and the wheels spinning ( supply chain ) to keep the tracked vehicles moving.

Maybe some local products ( PDF or renegade ) favor wheels ?
OtoH a chimera and wheels.....really close to a BMP..... ?

BTRs are the wheeled jobs. I thought all BMPs were tracked.

BMPs are exclusively Russian/Chinese though no? IVFs are the Western equivalent which can be wheeled or tracked iirc?

Wheels don't work as well in poor-traction environments. Tracks much such environments worse for everyone else, but they continue to plow through... especially if they have one of those dozer blades mounted on the front.

 Flinty wrote:
BTRs are the wheeled jobs. I thought all BMPs were tracked.

yes.


Found a hybrid: GAZ 50. Turret from BMP, chassis BTR. Should look like a wheeled chimera.

Wheeled combat vehicles themselves really only came into the forefront during the post-Cold war period when massive conventional engagements dominated by tanks and rough European countryside instead became rapid small-scale wars of mobility on a diverse series of environments. 40k warfare for the Imperium is p much the opposite of that.

More realistically, most 40k models were developed in the 80's, at a time where all combat vehicles were more or less tracked and the GW creators took that as their inspiration. Main reason for not many wheeled vehicles.

DO it up as a Planetary Defence Force ..No reason for them to have IG tracks ..The Forge Worlds do not supply PDF's ..they only get a pile of leftovers from the Ig ( thats pretty slim pickings actually)

A wheel's only real advantage over treads is raw speed and efficient energy use.

Treads are much better on rough terrain and more durable. But can also function on the same ground wheels can.

Basically, a Tread will be able to go everywhere a wheel can and much more. Wheels are more limited in what terrain they can traverse.


When you are having to make a vehicle that needs to be as versatile as possible, you will use whatever works in the most situations. Hence Treads.

 Lynata wrote:
Yes, Codex fluff makes a point regarding galactic standardisation for the Imperial Guard, but when there's novels and RPGs who kind of circumvent or outright ignore this detail, then you can, too.

Actually even in the IG codex there is not real standardization at all in the Guard. Lots of planets try to copy Cadia, but look at the model range. Simple things like uniforms, body armor, and even the most common weapon the lasgun isn't standardized at all. So Chimeras having wheels is legit. Besides the Elysians have wheeled vehicles from forgeworld. Just say it was a variant made by them.

Hikaru-119 wrote:Actually even in the IG codex there is not real standardization at all in the Guard. Lots of planets try to copy Cadia, but look at the model range. Simple things like uniforms, body armor, and even the most common weapon the lasgun isn't standardized at all. So Chimeras having wheels is legit. Besides the Elysians have wheeled vehicles from forgeworld. Just say it was a variant made by them.

That is (somewhat) true for infantry, but not vehicles. Which is why a Guardsman from Valhalla will look different to a Guardsman from Cadia, but why both forces still use the same kind of tanks and APCs with a different paintjob.
It's a simple matter of logistics and maintenance. The Munitorum doesn't care what uniform the Guardsman wears, and any pattern of lasgun can be recharged at a power generator. However, what are you going to do when your wheeled Chimaera breaks down and the next planet producing these wheels is 10.000 light years away? Might just be better to use the same stuff as everyone else, makes it a whole lot easier to ship in spare parts.

"As well as providing troops, a planet's Lord may be called upon to provide heavy equipment in the form of locally built tanks, artillery, troop carriers, etc. As with lighter armaments these tend to a standardised basic form across the Imperium, with only minor variations in design and build quality. Indeed, planetary Lords are obliged to provide heavy weapons of a basically standard type for the Imperial Guard, as well as stocks of spares, fuel processors, and logistic support as appropriate. Although a planet's defence forces will almost certainly include locally designed vehicles, often of the most wild or specialised kind, these are almost never recruited into the Imperial Guard because of the difficulty of maintenance and impracticality of keeping them running."
- 2E C:IG, p.7

" these are almost never recruited into the Imperial Guard"

But that little word almost means that it can still happen. When you have around a million worlds almost never can still be a large number. Arcsquad12 can still justify his regiment having wheeled chimeras because of this.

Indeed; his regiment's background could perhaps include a small paragraph justifying this deviation (if such justification is actually perceived as necessary) with a state of emergency. Perhaps the world is part of the extended Armageddon recruitment zone and now sees more and more of its planetary forces conscripted into offworld duty, including non-standard vehicle patterns?

But that is why I wrote this in my first post:

Don't let such concerns stop you from building wheeled Chimaeras, though! They can easily be justified by naming them a local non-standard pattern of the regiment's world. Yes, Codex fluff makes a point regarding galactic standardisation for the Imperial Guard, but when there's novels and RPGs who kind of circumvent or outright ignore this detail, then you can, too.

I have been planning on a all wheeled Ig force for some time, just getting around to assembling all the proper models, and conversions has been a task, since scale always rears its ugly head.

I have read about other wheeled vehicles in the imperium besides chimera variants and the elysians.
In Gun Heads there is multiple mentions of half tracks (front tires and rear tracks) and full on trucks simply referred to as "X tonners" and so on (I think its 5 tonners or 8 tonners, but not 100%). These are essentially very basic supply trucks like you would find behind the lines, ferrying anything from munitions to food to fuel. What makes it better is that the regiment involved is from Cadia so it at least means that large truck-like vehicles used for logistical purposes are possibly used.

What they look like?
I would imagine much like a big WW2 supply truck or a modern day supply truck

Big, versatile, rugged, able to do whatever you tell it and more.


They are not mentioned much but I assume its not all that interesting to hear about the little cargo truck moving ammo around for the troopers.

Seee here http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Elysian_Drop_Troops?filter_reset=1

They also get mentioned in Abnett's work.
Where they are referred to by their main purpose and number of wheels - so an 8 wheeled cargo hauler is a "cargo 8".
(Which would probably put them at the size of a contemporary garbage truck - 4 axle, front 4 steering).

im really shocked no one here mentioned bikes...

but i agree with above statement of wheel is better strictly for raw speed and energy use, when it comes to tanks and other vehicles at least.

By GW's interpretation bikes are not vehicles

You mean like this 8 wheel right? It even has enough heavy stubbers to be used as a transport when all the Chimeras get driven onto a minefield.

The Chimera can go places the HEMTT cannot. Sure, it can ford a 3' deep body of water (provided it's not wider than the length of the vehicle), but I've seen (and, in one case, was in) one of these bastards when it bogged down and bottomed out. Getting it out again was a six hour task.

It is actually a bit dumb that there's not some equivalent of the Humvee in the Imperial Guard, a multi-use light vehicle that can be used from anything to light patrols to hauling supplies. Then again GW isn't very interested in the realism of warfare (and that's fine, though it gets a bit awkward in the FW books).

I always though these where for
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Elysian_Drop_Troops/ELYSIAN_TAUROS_ASSAULT_VEHICLE.html

Im sure they could be used for supply, and light patrols.

Forge World has some things that sort of fit the bill.

The Tauros Assault vehicle is sort of an uparmored oversized buggy. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Elysian_Drop_Troops/ELYSIAN_TAUROS_ASSAULT_VEHICLE.html


edit: damn ninjas

 Ratius wrote:
BMPs are exclusively Russian/Chinese though no? IVFs are the Western equivalent which can be wheeled or tracked iirc?

IFV only means Infantry Fighting Vehicle which can be armed well to support troops after haveing them disembark , a BTR-90 and the similar series is an APC however it can be equip to be an IFV with the addition of a Turret the BMP-2 Is the Primer IFV of the Russian Federation although it is slowly being phased out for the newer and more easily transportable BTR-90 , same concept for the U.S 's Bradly Fighting Vehicle ( Tracked ) and the Stryker which can be geared to be an IFV

Harriticus wrote:It is actually a bit dumb that there's not some equivalent of the Humvee in the Imperial Guard, a multi-use light vehicle that can be used from anything to light patrols to hauling supplies.

Here's my take on it:

Maybe the Imperial Guard had multi-use light vehicles for exactly that role some time. Maybe the Imperial Guard once had access to Land Speeders just like they (or rather its predecessor) had access to Land Raiders. And maybe the technological decline - undoubtedly a big theme in the setting - at some time made its manufacturing centers so rare that, ultimately, the massed ranks of the Guard could no longer be supplied. And maybe, rather than *gasp* commissioning the invention of an entirely new vehicle (without an STC? the heresy!!), the Adeptus Munitorum instead turned to something even more ancient and more reliable: Cavalry.


"My Lord General,

I feel I must reiterate my request for a full company of Asgardian Rangers to aid the detachments I have dispatched in reconnaissance of the Ork reinforcements currently moving towards the Hemlock Cordon. I am aware of the militia's wishes to use either more of my forces or even Scouts from the Adeptus Astartes Salamanders Chapter but, with the greatest respect to their commanders, they are not fully familiar with the nature of dispersive warfare. My own forces are required here, at Helsreach, where Ork attacks are getting progressively stronger with each assault. I dare not weaken my line further. Helsreach itself could pay the price for that. As far as the Salamanders are concerned, their bravery and capability in fighting the greatest of enemies is legendary. However, I feel that the Asgardian Rangers have many advantages in their use throughout this warzone above and beyond Scouts of the Space Marines.

The tactical situation beyond the Hemlock Cordon is very fluid with Ork Speed Kults and marauding warbands to be found at every strategic point. We have witnessed the sheer speed of the Asgardian's biologically enhanced mounts, manipulatively bred for generations by Tech-Adepts. The mounts' incredible endurance and tenacity, coupled with their engineered resistance to wound and toxin can carry the Rangers through the worst of enemy held territory as they follow armies, staying out of the reach of opposing scouts and outriders.
There are many within the militia who view the Asgardian Rangers as primitive, almost feral, and the Ranger's feudal background does little to alter this perception. However, I do not foresee victory within Helsreach for a considerable length of time and so the Asgardian's ability to stay in the field and subsist in the most desolate of areas will prove invaluable. Marine Scouts mounted on bikes will be constrained by the need for fuel, for resources are sparse in the Ash Wastes and they will also suffer in situations where stealth, rather than skill at arms, is required. In addition, the territory north of Helsreach and that surrounding the nearest Ork drop site is directly comparable to the terrain of the Ranger's own homeworld, thus granting the entire company a familiarity of surroundings that so many of our forces here lack.

I have no wish to impugn the skills of the Adeptus Astartes. I pray to the Emperor that just one squad of their warriors could join us here in the defence of Helsreach, for they alone could turn the tide of battle. But in the duty of watching and recording Ork forces beyond the Hemlock Cordon, the Asgardian Rangers must be the clear choice. No other army on the planet has their skill or knowledge of reconnaissance within enemy held territory. I can assure you that all steps will be taken to avoid the Rangers engaging in direct battle and what few squads I have in the field beyond the Cordon will be ready to react to any sudden move by the Orks to hunt the Rangers down.

Your obedient Servant,

Captain Harkavian"
- GW's Armageddon 3 global campaign website : Imperial Forces, Asgardian Rangers


Of course, units from the Asgardians or the Attilans or other mounted formations will not be available to assist each and every regiment on any warzone, but the same could be said about Leman Russ Battle Tanks and Chimaera APCs. To me, the rigid, focused nature of the Imperial Guard and its regiments' inherent need to rely on support from other armies rather than being capable of independent operation is a rather important element of its fluff, too ... as are the (individually) unnecessary losses in human life that come from employing such inflexible strategies and doctrines.

... it should also be noted that the HMMWV is pre-dated by the 40K franchise. The IG don't have HMMWVs because they have Jeep analogues, which fits the early-to-mid 20th century military aesthetic much better than modern military vehicles do.

Heck, having read the descriptions of a vox-caster, I'm pretty sure they based it on an AN-GRC-106 radio teletype left over from the Korean War. If I could get a hold of the one I used to operate when I was in the Army, I could slap an aquila stencil on it and it would be a perfect 40K prop.