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hey this is my 1st post im pretty new to 40k started at Christmas and ive got around 4k worth of orks!
i have a match against a chaos daemon list witch he is fielding 6 monstrous creatures! :/
including the lord of change!
hes very cheesy!!
so im looking for help building a list!
i have 17 bikes
tons of of boyz, nobz, every hq, some killa kans, dakka jet
kommandos, 30 lootas, 15 burnaz, battle wagon, 3 trukks
looted wagon too!

i usually field alotta bikes and boyz with a warboss on a bike!
its 2000 points PLEASE HELP!

i dunno much about orks man here is some general advice vs csm daemon though.

Focus fire. Try to take them down one at a time. your first target should either be the deamon holding the grimoire or a prince that is just in the open. they are easier to kill than the greaters in general.

Boyz rock. A lot of the daemons monsterous creatures have real trouble dealing with hordes. If 20 boyz hit the lord of change it would take him a few turns to do much damage. Challenge with your nob to keep him there longer. If you can tar pit some of the monsters you can focus on others.

His troops are bad. If he has 6 FMC then he probably only has ~20 very squishy troops for taking objectives. Kill his scoring units and in most games itll be really hard for him to win. That can be tough though if he plays properly and doesnt put them in the open.

I'm not sure what tools orks have that counter specific daemon units but thats some generally okay advice.

Yeah he knows his onions! haha
its just most of his stuff has 2+ invul
with re-rolls
i have a t-shirt save!

Yeah, as a daemons player, let me tell you...green tide scares me. The only unit I regularly bring that can take them out in droves at a distance is Fateweaver. Masses of boys will slow down my princes, and survivors of a hurt mob can still pack enough attacks to lay a prince low.

Have lots of large Boyz mobs all in striking distance of one another. If you get charged by a big daemon gribbly, pile in another mob on that daemon/mob combat. Drown him your cheap attacks. While all that's going on, have perhaps a small boyz mob in a trukk grab objectives (if any).

Exactly which Greater Daemons is he running, and with what gifts (they change game to game randomly )

If he has flying MC's you only have to hit them to make them smash into the ground. Shoot him up with bikes or boyz to make him land, then use Lootas to pummel him down.

If all his MC's are rocking a 2++ then he might be cheating. Most daemons in the Daemons codex have a 5++. Fateweaver can get a better one.

A blanket army-wide 2++ with a reroll screams CHEATER to me.

Fateweaver can grant a single re-roll once a turn, and has a 4++ save base.

Tzeentch daemons can reroll 1's on their saves.

If he got the greater reward - Dark Blessing he can reroll failed inv saves. for the model that rolled it.

The Hellforged Artifact -Grimoire of true names - can grant a +2 to inv saves for a single friendly unit, if you don't roll badly.

That's about it.

I play mono-nurgle daemons (and Orks), so i may be missing something, but 2++ rerollable everything just isn't available,


Murderise one big beasty at a time, Even a boyz mob of shootas should be able to knock off a wound or two.

 Ascalam wrote:
Exactly which Greater Daemons is he running, and with what gifts (they change game to game randomly )

If he has flying MC's you only have to hit them to make them smash into the ground. Shoot him up with bikes or boyz to make him land, then use Lootas to pummel him down.

If all his MC's are rocking a 2++ then he might be cheating. Most daemons in the Daemons codex have a 5++. Fateweaver can get a better one.

A blanket army-wide 2++ with a reroll screams CHEATER to me.

Fateweaver can grant a single re-roll once a turn, and has a 4++ save base.

Tzeentch daemons can reroll 1's on their saves.

If he got the greater reward - Dark Blessing he can reroll failed inv saves. for the model that rolled it.

The Hellforged Artifact -Grimoire of true names - can grant a +2 to inv saves for a single friendly unit, if you don't roll badly.

That's about it.

I play mono-nurgle daemons (and Orks), so i may be missing something, but 2++ rerollable everything just isn't available,


Murderise one big beasty at a time, Even a boyz mob of shootas should be able to knock off a wound or two.

Agreed. That whole army wide 2++ thing does seem rather fishy. Only one unit per turn can get a 2++, only one since it requires the Grimoire. And you can only ever have one Grimoire.

A lot of demon MCs are only Sv3+ or worse. I seem to recall a certain codex is able to take open-topped AV14 transports filled with guys with rokkits. And the tank itself can take more rokkits. Yeah, they've got a 5++ on most things, but with S8, you're going to be forcing a fair number of them, and a 5+ anything isn't that great, invul save or otherwise.

Also, demons in general tend not to like high volume of fire directed at them. Other than boyz, I can imagine that demons don't like fleets of cheap shoota buggies and bikes.

I don't know the daemon codex well at all so all I'm going on is what he tells me! But all of his monstrous creatures are flying
He's using csm allies to get another daemon prince in!
I was going to sit everything on the back line and dakka the hell out of them!?

Depending on your "friends" and age: read the enemy codex. When I was younger I couldn't believe how many people tried to cheat in friendly games. That got better when everyone got older than 20.

It generall gives you a lot of understanding, especially of the shortcomings of an army. Most opponents will not tell you that.

Boyz and Bikes work great against T5 demons. Just don't let him charge your bikes if you can help it.

Short Answer: Shoota Boyz and Lootas, and even Dakka Jets.

He is fielding the Grimior, which is a piece of wargear. Only one unit per turn can have a 2++, and that also requires rolling a specific psychic power, Forewarning from Divination, and that requires a psychic test to be passed.

What unit was he targeting with the Grimiore, he has a 1/3 chance of failing it, if so the casting unit is super vulnerable. He probably took Fateweaver to ensure that he can reroll a failed Grimoire.


Target Priority
Grimiore Carrier(If not hidden in Grimiored unit)
Fatweaver if present(Makes Grimiore Work)
Nearest FMC or unit.

Do not under any circumstance shoot at the 2++rerollable unit. Shoot the units that make it work.


Ork shooting is awesome, shoota boyz can hurt anything he is throwing at you barring some ridiculous Iron Arm rolls. Boyz are still 50% effective against an FMC. Fire the Boyz first, then the Lootas if you can ground a target. Lootas rock, seriously, they can kill anything he has in his army.

When you can't shoot them anymore, laugh as he assaults and your ovewatch is still 50% effective, then laugh as you tarpit with a chance of victory against his FMCs. Protect the Lootas and make sure to target anything you've been able to ground.



I"d run...

Ghazgul(Eternal Warrior is critical vs Smash)
KFF Big Mek(Optional)
6x30Shoota Boyz with PK Bosspole Nob
All of your Lootas(3x10, more if you've can rustle them up)
Spend the rest on Dakkajets if you've got anything left, rough math puts it as 0 Dakka Jets... Could drop one unit of Boyz for a Dakka jet or two.

Shoot'em till you can't.
Ground them if your lucky.
Keep shooting them either way.
Assault them if able.
Ghaz can handle anything they've got in CC on his Waaagh(Just make sure you kill the Black Mace DP from his CSM first)

Actually, that list can handle most of what your opponent can field against you and is still nasty against just about everyone. Only suffers against heavy armor, that's what the PKs are for, decline most challenges with them. Should be a fairly easy match actually.


Edit: I'd also suggest looking at the Daemons codex, it would go a long way to helping you here. His army isn't invulnerable, in fact you have one of the armies with the most tools at your disposal. If you play it right you can make a mockery of his list and he'll call your wall of boyz Cheesy!(Though I hate the term)

haha i think ill do exactly that list dude!! dont think ill bring my dakka jet tho he sits plague bearers on a quad gun! :s

thanks every one this has been a great help! :p

Glad I was able to help, let me know how it goes and the expression on his face when you unpack your army. There are very very few armies that can handle that Green Tide.

Sadly the best way to deal with any MC as orks is either 1) more lootas or 2) feed it more than its worth to take it down. I started fielding Ghazzy against people i know likes their MCs because he alone can devour 2-3 of the average ones and also kick a big one's butt.

"But hes slow! hows that possible?" Unless its a riptide or wraithknight it most likely wants to come down your throat...proper positioning forces him to get around ghazzy first.

If the MC is S5, he is going to smash any nonbike warboss or any bikernobz. Yeah, less attacks, but if you fail that 5+ invul its dead. Bikernobz will almost always take it out afterwords because of the unchallangable PK and such, but ive never had them come out without losing 2-3 bikes and in a 5-7 man unit that hurts. Against Nidz is the only time i actually DONT bring bikernobz because of the sheer mass of MC, it sounds like Daemons might make the same trend for me (never faced them before)

Spread Ghaz in the front squad out and force the FMCs to either go way around or assault. The Challenge, may take a bit before Ghaz can get engaged but he'll get there eventually. His Waaagh allows you to box them in.

ok some insight from a demon/ csm player that runs alot of mc.
as said above, the only character that can get a 2 ++ is fateweaver. and you need the grimorie.to get that.

also remember that daemon princes are t5, so the warboss and his str 10 powerklaw will instant death them. massed shooting will also put wounds on them quickly.

use the boys and lootas to get them on the ground then charge with the warboss, start putting the stank on them in cc.

A Lord of Change/Herald of Tzeentch with Forewarning can give any unit a 4+ invulnerable. Alternatively, the Warp Storm table can give everyone +1 to their invulnerable save. Combine it with the Grimoire and it's not that hard to give any unit you like a 2+..

Of course, the only ones that can re-roll them are Tzeentch demons (or any character with the Dark Blessing reward).

Still, if he manages to get it off just ignore the unit and kill the rest. Even a Bloodthirster with a 2+ rerollable can only kill one unit each turn. And with orks you should have enough bodies/sacrificial nobs, no?

keep boyz and lootas near ghazzy, with the exception of fatewaver he is going to try get into close combat with his monsters so if you waylay him with boyz ghaz can charge in and crack em topside.

and if he doenst charge you focus fire dakka on each monster until you drop em

so 2 mobs of 15 lootas, ghazz as many mobz of boyz as possible but i was thinking rather than using my burnas in a battle wagon would a mob of tank bustas do the job a unit with squig bombs and strength 8 ap 3 assault weapons can attack anything when hes not using any tanks right??

I wouldn't bother with the squig bombs.

Unlike in the Space Marine game, bomb squigs only work on vehicles, including your own

Tanksbustas are pretty decent MC hunters though, especially VS no-vehicle armies that favor MCs like Daemons and Nids.

Squig bombs need some tweaking, theyre pretty lame right now and have a ton of "What the?" holes in their rules, like why it ONLY works against vehicles is beyond me. Few times ive brought tankbustas i didnt even bring squigbombs because i didnt have them for the anti-vehicle i had them for the anti-3+ armor and pasting T4 models.

Also tankbustas are forced to shoot at MCs or Vehicles if theyre in range, not just vehicles. Its not as bad as the codex says though, they errata'd it to let you have free reign in the movement phase so you cant get kited around anymore.

Though they still lack tank/monster hunter for SOME REASON lol.

Lootaz and Shoota boyz. IMO, each of your Loota squads should be wrapped in Shoota Boyz to prevent them from being assaulted. If they assault the Boyz well...that's fine too. Try to Shoota them out of the air, then Loota them once they're grounded.

Hey again guys the dude I'm playing has sent me his list!

It's
I got Fateweaver, Lord of Change, 2 troop units then 3 Princes all with wings. 2 Tzeentch 1 Nurgle the as allies I have a Khorne Daemon Prince. Cultists and a Heldrake

Seems like an uber gay list tbf!! Bit over the top for someone who uses 100+ boyz a week lol

What do you all think now then???
And also I have no idea what fate weaver does!!! :/

greywind55 wrote:
Hey again guys the dude I'm playing has sent me his list!

It's
I got Fateweaver, Lord of Change, 2 troop units then 3 Princes all with wings. 2 Tzeentch 1 Nurgle the as allies I have a Khorne Daemon Prince. Cultists and a Heldrake

Seems like an uber gay list tbf!! Bit over the top for someone who uses 100+ boyz a week lol

What do you all think now then???
And also I have no idea what fate weaver does!!! :/

For starters, his list is illegal. He cannot take a Nurgle DP as a Heavy Support unless he takes a GUO.

My advice is completely unchanged. Make sure the Lootas are 3x10 and spread them out, the Baleflamer is going to be nasty against them. Fateweaver is a T5 FMC with a 4++ Reroll 1s for Saves(Tzeentch), he also grants one reroll a game turn which will be used for the Grimiore.

Target Priority is the name of the game.

Target the Grimiore Holder first. Since he is running FMCs, it can't be protected and removing it is as easy as removing an FMC.

Be careful of any DP that rolls Ironarm, with a high enough roll your boyz can't hurt them in CC, good thing Lootas still can. Make sure you watch him roll his powers and know what DP has what.


Kill the Grimiore
Ground nearest FMC
Loota Grounded FMC
Rinse wash repeat
Tarpit the rest.

Take out any Scoring unit that comes within range, he has only three. If you kill them I guarantee he cannot beat you at Objective Based Missions.

With enough Boyz and Lootas you can wipe him pretty easily. And shoota boyz shooting the rear of a Helldrake will take off enough HP to down it, you don't have to waste your Lootas here.

ShootaBoyz and Lootas.
ShootaBoyz and Lootas.
ShootaBoyz and Lootas.

Seriously he can't beat you in CC, he can't out shoot you. He can't take your objectives or hold his own. And he probably can't dealy with your relatively low number of KPs.

Edit: And whatever you do, don't shoot something that has a 2++ Rerollable save, but don't be afraid to charge it.

Thanks man the games this Friday ill let you know how I get on!

Speaking as a CSM Player with Daemon allies:
I often field a Bloodthirster. If and when he is destroyed, it is usually to an overwhelming number of attacks. Even Cultist, Guardsmen and of course Orc Boys can do this. He'll fail his 3+ save often enough.
Just keep shooting/hacking away and he'll die sooner than you believe and I want.

 Murenius wrote:
Depending on your "friends" and age: read the enemy codex. When I was younger I couldn't believe how many people tried to cheat in friendly games. That got better when everyone got older than 20.

It generall gives you a lot of understanding, especially of the shortcomings of an army. Most opponents will not tell you that.

When I play at my local GW this happens every almost every game with the under 20 year olds.
Admittedly, it's a complicated game for kids and I always cut them a lot of slack, since for them it's usually a question of not getting all the ifs and whens in the rules (and if we're honest, there is rather a lot of that!)

However it also happens every second game with the over 20 year olds. And to be honest, it's not all of the players trying it in half of the games, but half of the players trying it in every game. Also at that stage it usually isn't a question of not understanding how things work, but trying to get one over on their opponents. Although the store owner's final word on the matter can usually settle the dispute, even he is quite annoyed by those players.

Guess it comes down to chosing your opponents.

My motto is: Play for fun first, then do your best to win. Not the other way around.

Just take lots of boys, nobs won't do you any good, the only IC I could recommend would be ghaz, use massed shots to knock them down, boyz groups to lock them down and take them out.

I would also check his points- that's a lot of models, and I've played plenty of people who will add "free" upgrades to their units, or forget to pay for a unit or two. It's really hard to detect, too, unless you're familiar with the army. I find it really helps when both players write their lists down, and let the other player take a look.

If it's a Daemon Prince without Iron Arm and he happens to be on the ground, Deffrolla the mutha!

A friend made this stupid mistake twice two weeks in a row with his CSM Prince. He assaulted one of my wagons, sploded it. My turn: moved the contents that survived the explosion out of the way and let the Wagon behind him Instant death him with the deffrolla.

The answer is in the name of the forum your on. DAKKA, DAKKA, AND MORE DAKKA. focus fire, one at a time