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I tried finding out about this by doing a google search and didnt find what I was looking for. ..

I just finished reading the first book in the SpaceWolves Omnibus and was wondering why Ragnar knew about Chaos or their gods. I thought the inquisition kept that a secret by extermination or mind wiping. Are the Space Wolves exempt from this since they did go to war with the inquisition?

All the major Imperial organisations know about Chaos (the citizens themselves not so much) by simple necessity, as they often encounter cults in its service.

You may be conflusing this with the existence of daemons, which the Inquisition is indeed going through great lengths of concealing, including the execution of "contaminated" Imperial Guardsmen, or the mind-wiping of less replaceable troops (such Space Marines).

The Space Wolves of course have the "get out of jail free" card and have always pretty much done what they please, so they are once again an exception from the rule.

 Lynata wrote:
All the major Imperial organisations know about Chaos (the citizens themselves not so much) by simple necessity, as they often encounter cults in its service.

You may be conflusing this with the existence of daemons, which the Inquisition is indeed going through great lengths of concealing, including the execution of "contaminated" Imperial Guardsmen, or the mind-wiping of less replaceable troops (such Space Marines).

The Space Wolves of course have the "get out of jail free" card and have always pretty much done what they please, so they are once again an exception from the rule.

So are the BA - they're fighting Ka band'ha or whatever his name is.
The Ultramarines took out M'kar the reborn
The White scars had a hunt for a demon prince called Voldorius
The Howling Griffons took out Perclitor
The Imperial Fists fought 'The Warsmith' or whatever his name was - in storm of iron.
None of those have been mind-wiped either.

Although thinking about it - all those are Demon Prince's (bar the B.A) - do they get treated differently? If you get attacked by CSM's and they have a DP does that mean mindwiped by the GK or it doesn't cound cos you didn't realise it was a demon, you just though it was a super chaos marine?
Unlike when you get attacked by *actual* demons?

MIND WIPINGS FOR EVERYONE!

I guess it depends on the situation and your standing, they are all pretty important 1st and 2nd founding Chapters who I guess would have records involving Chaos dating all the way back to the Scouring and Heresy. So a mind scrub isn't necessarily do anything if they can read. Also I guess that they would want some Chapters knowing about Chaos and how to fight against it, otherwise imagine if they were all ERMAGERD A DEEMON every time something tentacled turned up or a Space Marine broke out in acne

Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

Dark Angels have had some experience killing daemons too if i remember right one of the grandmasters slayed some sort of daemon prince on new caliban, according to some fluff in the chapter relics section. I doubt the inquistion would be able to mind wipe a DA chapter master. Otherwise they might wipe out his memory of the fallen!!

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

Funnily enough, Blood Angels. It's in either their Codex or the GK one that Dante agrees to such mind-wiping for the troops present. However, such events as this heavily implies that those in charge (ie. Dante himself and perhaps one or two others) would still be aware.
More generally, Marines do know about Chaos because the Inquisition simply can't be everywhere. There's a good chance that Chapters have run into Daemons without the Grey Knights being able to intervene and perform the wipes after the fact (there's no mention of the Grey Knights that time the Sanguinor saved a bunch of Blood Angels from Ka'Bandha, for instance). Then there are Librarians, who must be aware of Daemons in order to protect against them whilst using the powers of the warp.

Whether they realise what the Daemons are is another matter. I've always seen it as Marines being allowed to know that Daemons exist, but not their exact relationship with the Warp or the Chaos Gods (except for Librarians), just that they serve the Gods like cultists and Chaos Marines do.

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

Sky Sentinels after Sondheim V. Must have been a bit of a scary deal, Tyranids and Daemons oh my.

PredaKhaine wrote:Although thinking about it - all those are Demon Prince's (bar the B.A) - do they get treated differently? If you get attacked by CSM's and they have a DP does that mean mindwiped by the GK or it doesn't cound cos you didn't realise it was a demon, you just though it was a super chaos marine?
Unlike when you get attacked by *actual* demons?

I'm with Pilau Rice in that it'd likely depend very much on the situation, although I would make it less dependent on a Chapter's standing (although this would play some role in determining the consequences of a refusal) but more on the level of involvement of the Ordo Malleus, and the nature (size and type) of the daemonic incursion.

Also, if you're there because the Inquisition has called for your services, they'll know and prepare accordingly to limit the spread of knowledge. Whether this includes the troops and to what level will depend on the individual Inquisitor. However, if your Chapter just "happens" to encounter some daemons without anyone else nearby to notice it, then return to the Fortress Monastery and tell the tale to everyone else ... well, that would pretty much render it impossible for the Ordo Malleus to intervene "after the fact", so to say.

PredaKhaine wrote:Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

I think I never saw such an example - the only case where a Chapter was actually named (Space Wolves) was also where it refused.

Might be the usual "pride schpiel"; you generally have very, very few examples in the fluff where something bad or humbling happens to a Chapter, and incidents such as the fate of the Celestial Lions are almost a "one in a million" exception. That doesn't mean that things like these do not happen more often, just that they are not mentioned in the stories aside from a general description. For example, Sororitas fluff mentions that they purged several Chapters of Marines, but do we have any names? Nope.

In this sense, who knows? Maybe some of the examples you mentioned of Marines fighting daemons actually HAD the participants mind-wiped after the incident, and it's just not said in the material. Interpret it the way how you think it fits best into your perception of the setting, that's the only advice I can give in such matters.

[edit] Huh @ Sky Sentinels & Blood Angels. Looks like I need to take a look at ze books again.

I guess scale is a big concern, imagine them trying to cover up something like Vraks

They would maybe need to get the MiB involved as well.

Just read up on the Sky Sentinels - what happens in a war between tyranids and demons?

Can tyranids eat demons and survive on them?

The only mind wiping I'm aware of for Space Marines comes when the Grey Knights get involved.

There is a whole brotherhood of Space Marines whose main task is to fight Chaos and are not aligned with the Inquisition. They are called Astartes Praeses. So, I don't think Space Wolves are exception. Also, there definitely must be a lot more examples of people who know about Chaos (and who are not cultist) because as previously mentioned, the Inquisition/Grey Knights simply can't be everywhere.

Yeah, as troa said, I believe the presence of demons is simply the excuse the GK/Inquisition use to exterminate non-marines and mind-wipe marines, but the real reason is to keep the GK themselves secret and keep them effective.

Most SM are probably aware of demons, as the GK only wipe those who fight with them/have witnessed them, and as GK are not present at all demonic incursions, SM deal with them themselves will full knowledge before and after of demons.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I guess scale is a big concern, imagine them trying to cover up something like Vraks

Easily done. Kill all the troops, inform the homeworld they were killed fighting xenos. (there was an example of that in Slaves to Darkness: Army Corps wiped out by Grey Knights after defeating Emperors Children, homeworld informed all troops had been killed by Eldar.). They covered up the 1st Armageddon War and was a much bigger war on a much more important world.

But in reference to Space Marine Chapters. Dark Angels, Angels of Absolution, Red Hunters and Red Scorpions were all involved and I can't imagine the Dark Angels or the Angels of Absolution surrendering themselves for mind scrubbing.

The confusing thing about the Blood Angels mind wipe is that the Grey Knights proposed a joint strike with them specifically because of their relationship with Ka'Bandha. Ka'Bandha had been a figure in Blood Angels history for 10,000 years by that point, it seems silly to erase him from their minds now. I assumed the mind wipe was in regards to the Grey Knights themselves, not the existence of daemons.

There is some confusion regarding the executions and mind-wipes committed by the Inquisition as some fluff may suggest it is only used for one or the other (and this is both coming from GW sources), yet the bigger picture obviously makes it appear it is used for both. The 6E Rulebook, for example, specifically mentions daemons to be a cause for such measures.

Well Ragnar didn't fight demons, just some chaos marines in a cave. What got me wondering was that he knew what specific god they worshiped from looking at a statue. Also earlier in the book, before he became a space marine, he knew of at least one of the gods. It could be just considered primitive superstition or something but it ruined my mental image of the imperium. And the inquisition.

Also, tyranids vs demons? Must read

It's possible that since old night Fenris had some element of Chaos Worship on it, same with many planets. Even Terra had proof that Chaos Worship had taken place there at one time, I guess it does still go on in the darkest pits of the Hives or amongst the more elaborate of the rich and famous. It's quite likely that the records on Fenris would mention the Thousand Sons and their Primarch and that they are servants of Tzeentch.

The Imperium is vast and the Inquisition cannot be everywhere nor can it erase every single piece of proof concerning Chaos from existence.

I guess it's considered that, while the general populace of the Imperium are weak and susceptible to corruption by the Chaos Gods, Space Marines are strong and stuff. To be honest though, many Inquisitors have become obsessed with Chaos artefacts and have been turned to Chaos, and they're considered some of the holiest (bar GK, SoB, Empruh, Primarchs etc.) people in the Galaxy, it could be either to be honest. And I'm sure not every marine who says 'What's blood for the Blood God?' after an encounter with Khorne Bersekers is going to get his memory wiped. It's even in the name to be fair.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

Sky Sentinels after Sondheim V. Must have been a bit of a scary deal, Tyranids and Daemons oh my.

That was due to them learning of the existence of the Grey Knights, not Daemons, I thought?

I would think that the mind scrubbing is due to the knowledge of the grey knights and them covering up their existence.

With names beings so powerful, as some books have daemons flinging marines around because they know their name and grey knights naming daemons and capturing/banishing them, the mindwipe would be to clear the grey knights names from space marines minds so daemons could not learn them at a later stage and gain control of the grey knights.

I'm not much for Space Marine fluff but didn't Leman Russ go running off into the Eye of Terror? Home to every vile denizen of the warp? And then don't the Space Wolves keep a classic Norse tradition with the whole story-telling thing pertaining to old heroes and such? I would think daemon/chaos fighting would be something they enjoyed stories about.

Again, I don't do Space Marine fluff. I just remember Russ because I have tanks named after him.

The only time I have ever heard of mind wipes being performed after deamon contact was when the Grey Knights were involved. The mind wipes were to prevent people remembering the Grey Knights themselves, not the deamons. Honestly have no idea wtf everyone else is talking about lol.

Spartak wrote:Honestly have no idea wtf everyone else is talking about lol.

To deliver on my earlier remark:

"Thus, only the most stout-hearted and iron-willed are permitted to know and retain knowledge of the Daemons and their masters, the Dark Gods of Chaos. The bearers of this knowledge are few, and they share this information reluctantly. The Inquisition and their erstwhile allies, the Grey Knights, are among the tiny number of humans who are allowed to know of the Daemons and their evil ways. Most others who come into contact with them are culled to prevent the promulgation of knowledge and the possible spread of daemonic taint. If they are of sufficient value to the Imperium, they are mind-wiped to erase all memories of the encounter."
- 6E Rulebook : Appendix, Daemons, p.404

So then amongst that tiny number of other people are space wolves? That one part where Ragnar knew a chaos god's statue while he was still just a... bloodclaw I think they're called... just made me stop reading for a bit. Maybe the author forgot that the chaos gods are supposedt be secret.

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Can you think of any occasions when marines have been mind wiped due to seeing demons?

Actually in The Emperor's gift it is stated that only the Chapter master are allowed to know about the Grey Knights. All others get mind wiped. The one exception to this and only post Emperor's Gift is the Space Wolves. IIrc Bjorns says something like "You are known to us now". After saying there will be no mind wipes.

Edit: Sorry wrong quote. See the above post.

Jimobofo wrote:
Well Ragnar didn't fight demons, just some chaos marines in a cave. What got me wondering was that he knew what specific god they worshiped from looking at a statue. Also earlier in the book, before he became a space marine, he knew of at least one of the gods. It could be just considered primitive superstition or something but it ruined my mental image of the imperium. And the inquisition.

Also, tyranids vs demons? Must read

Well the space wolves and the thousands sons have been fighting each other since the Space Wolves sacked their world. So in 10.000 years it wouldn't be difficult to notice that the thousands sons were converted to the worship of Tzeench.

And on another not Space Wolves have always sticked it to the man. I think there is even some fluuf in the codex where the old wolf starts a fight with an inquisitor over mindscrubbing or executing some Imperial Guard.

Of course the Space Wolves know about Chaos, heck they fought flipping Daemon Angron and the World Eaters legion. They've had to get the Thousand Sons off their world several times. They've participated in most every black crusade, and hell, Logan was able to recognize Angron for who he was even in Daemon Prince form and called down the Grey Knights.