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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/03 18:58:48
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
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This can be safely labeled as Black Library nonsense (the whole book was full of stupid). I just checked through Dark Millenium, and Codices Daemonhunters/Grey Knights/Space Wolves 2nd, 3rd and 5th. The events portrayed in the studio material is a lot more realistic, with Logan not only NOT killing anyone, but in fact, never actively opposing Inquisitorial/Administratum action. He simply doesn't like the decision, and bitches and moans about it, but eventually listens to his advisers and lets the matter drop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/03 20:56:20
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Executing Exarch
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I did find one nugget when I went through the 2nd ed Space Wolves codex. The Wolves definitely know about chaos. This is from Logan Grimnars profile. 2nd Ed Space Wolves codex wrote: ...He has fought every imaginable kind of foe, from brutal Orks to the foul abominations of Chaos. Logan Grimnar has fought battles in space as well as upon the surface of planets, and has led expeditions into the Eye of Terror to attack the Chaos Space Marine Legions. It was upon one such expedition theat he acquired the Axe Morkai, taking it as a trophy from a defeated Champion of Chaos. This weapon has been reforged by the Iron Priests but still glows darkly with the power of Khorne the bloodthirsty god of Chaos... So erm...yeah - I think the wolves might not want the inquisition around too often Has this been retconned or has it just been quiety 'forgotten'?
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/09/04 07:15:10
Blacksails wrote:
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/03 21:34:44
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That hasn't been retconned to my knowledge. Far as the Space Wolves know, it's reforging has made it free of taint.
I imagine that if Khorne has any say in whether or not the blade keeps its power, he lets it slide as long as it keeps making blood flow.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/03 21:35:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 00:01:14
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
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Lynata wrote:clively wrote:The inquisition simply wasn't strong enough to take down a first founding chapter without serious repurcussions from all Astartes that would rock the Imperium to its core.
Personally, I don't think I can buy that - not after what happened to the Celestial Lions. If the Inquisition would see a need to dispose of the Space Wolves silently, they'd certainly manage to do so, considering the resources at their disposal.
I also do not believe that all Astartes are that close with each other, not in the least because several Chapters were sponsored/created under direct oversight of the Inquisition, and violent blood feuds between Chapters not being unheard of. That the Space Wolves have few to no known Successors themselves only makes it easier.
That is, of course, just my assessment - and differing opinions regarding this topic are to be expected.
Oh, they covered that killing off later chapters was something that happens fairly regularly. It was just that killing off a first founding chapter - with an obviously long history of adherence to, and support of, the Imperium, was going to be near impossible. Especially when it was the Inquisition that shot first. For the most part, in the story, the wolves simply kept their ships between Inquisition ships and fleeing guardsmen. After the inquisition ships began firing on wolf ships then the wolves began shooting back. Of course, it didn't help when a lot of Grey Knights failed to show up to support the Inquisitions efforts. Instead claiming they were busy on other assignments. And yes, the Inquisition did involve a different chapter (can't remember the name) which tried to engage the wolves.
Yes, there have been blood feuds between chapters; and yes, a number of chapters have either been purposely hunted down and destroyed or simply left to die with little support after their combat effectiveness dropped to almost nothing. Yes, the SW have certainly done a lot to torque other chapters and governmental branches in the Imperium. However imagine if Exterminatus was declared on a first founding chapter. You can bet the other first founding chapters would take notice of the reasons and most likely come to their aid.
There was simply no way the Inquisition could justify destroying the wolves short of having absolute proof that the chapter was overrun by daemon possession. In this case it was just a matter of the SW using their legal rights to ignore the Inquisition's demands. All chapters claim the right of total independence - hence the main reason the Badab War took so long (200+ years) to get started after Huron took over the Badab Sector as his personal fiefdom. This grants them a huge leeway in what they do.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/04 00:30:20
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"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 00:43:05
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Hungry Little Ripper
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Space marines vs the inquisition would make for a great story.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 00:43:27
Subject: Re:Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Nope, sorry. That's just nothing that fits into my perception of the setting. We will have to agree to disagree here - to me, the Inquisition's capabilities and resolve as described in GW's own material would make such an action just too unbelievable to remain without consequence.
I'm used to a lot of weird stories from Black Library, and this one certainly does not take the cake, but still I won't incorporate it into my understanding of 40k. It would break too much of the original fluff.
PredaKhaine: Huh, that is a pretty cool find - I've never heard of that before, and though I love digging up the old fluff I confess I'd never taken a look at the 2E SW Codex. Thanks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 07:39:03
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Executing Exarch
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I checked the 5th ed codex and the Axe Morkai is now "Thrumming with the power of the warp". That sounds like such a euphemism.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/04 12:17:17
Blacksails wrote:
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 09:42:41
Subject: Re:Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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PredaKhaine wrote: Lynata wrote:PredaKhaine wrote:Thats Space wolves codex fluff
Pilau Rice wrote:Nothing in the Grey Knights or Space Wolves codex
Time to get out the books, I guess...
Just checked the space wolves codex, two whole pages of 1st armageddon war, 1 tiny paragraph of space wolf vs inquisition stuff. Featuring Grimnar yawping...Ultracurses! You win for now Pilau 
Mwahahaha
Lynata wrote: kitch102 wrote:Doesn't a gene seed store the memories of each marine it's been a part of? So you could mind wipe a marine, but the next guy finds out anyway when he gets his gene seed?
I think you may be confusing this with the Marines' ability to "acquire" the base instincts of local fauna and slain enemies by eating their flesh?
I remember having read that before, that some form of memory of the previous barer is retained, but it's not necessarily a memory, but more of an instinct. I can't seem to find it but will have a look around some more.
Lynata wrote:Also, thanks for checking the books, guys. Guess that solves it - for me at least. 
You're welcome
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 09:51:37
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 10:07:56
Subject: Re:Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Executing Exarch
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Pilau Rice wrote:
Lynata wrote: kitch102 wrote:Doesn't a gene seed store the memories of each marine it's been a part of? So you could mind wipe a marine, but the next guy finds out anyway when he gets his gene seed?
I think you may be confusing this with the Marines' ability to "acquire" the base instincts of local fauna and slain enemies by eating their flesh?
I remember having read that before, that some form of memory of the previous barer is retained, but it's not necessarily a memory, but more of an instinct. I can't seem to find it but will have a look around some more.
Theres a story from an anthology (I can't remember the title - need to check the books again) where a Black Legionary has to keep killing all of an imperial fists captains descendants - He tries to stop and the chaos gods won't let him - I'm sure that the Fist he killed had some form of vague memory/recognition going on when they met to fight at the end of the story.
EDIT:Honour Among Fiends by Dylan Owen, from Victories of the Space Marines
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 10:29:20
Blacksails wrote:
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/09/04 14:28:07
Subject: Do Space Wolves know about Chaos
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Confessor Of Sins
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As I recall from the Wolves vs the Inquisition it wasn't really that clear to begin with. A few Inquisitors took exception to Grimnar and started demanding costly measures up to and including getting rid of an entire First Founding Chapter. Several other Inquisitors were already busy calculating the cost benefits of quietly getting rid of the most vocal "respect my authority" figures so they could work out a less costly compromise.
edit: because? Wasting the Emperor's resource on what's basically a personal pissing contest is heresy. And if the Inquisitor shouting loudly isn't as well respected as the marine leader he's shouting at it's sometimes more efficient to get rid of him.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/04 14:35:36
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