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WITHOUT using a Nurgle DP with balesword.

I can deal with one usually, though it's a pain. More than one is really tough.

My HQ slots in my normal list are taken up by fatewaver/heralds. So no Nurgle DP.

I usually run dogs/screamers and occasionally FMC's for the rest of the list.

But what can I take or ally to help take these guys down? What I usually take doesn't seem to cut it.

I'd like to keep the list for all comers tho, without tailoring.

Have you tried any of the slaanesh daemons? They all get rend which is pretty useful against MC.

What type of heralds are you using? Tzeentch?

Tzeentch and Khorne Heralds. Decapitating axe isn't exactly reliable.

Daemonettes and Seekers get shot to bits by the rest of his army (usually wave serpents) before they ever get anywhere near the knight.

ignore it, its a 240 point model with 2 shots, or a 300 point model with a scatter laser and 2 templates. Its entire strategy is for you to waste time shooting it, I am a long time eldar player and I really dont know why people even take wraith knights..

Admiral General Aladeen wrote:
ignore it, its a 240 point model with 2 shots, or a 300 point model with a scatter laser and 2 templates. Its entire strategy is for you to waste time shooting it, I am a long time eldar player and I really dont know why people even take wraith knights..

This same strategy is the best way for Daemons to handle Riptides as well.

ignore it, its a 240 point model with 2 shots, or a 300 point model with a scatter laser and 2 templates. Its entire strategy is for you to waste time shooting it, I am a long time eldar player and I really dont know why people even take wraith knights..

FMC spam is probably the most competitive and commonly seen Daemon list. Wraithknights are one of the worst units that they can run into. Strength 10 at range or in close combat makes very short work of most big Daemons once they hit the ground.

As an Eldar player, I love my two Knights. They synergize incredibly well with 4+ Serpents, as they fill the holes that army has.

To answer the OP, take Psychic Shriek on all of your flying psykers. 3-4 Shrieks will reliably down a Knight a turn.

 JGrand wrote:

ignore it, its a 240 point model with 2 shots, or a 300 point model with a scatter laser and 2 templates. Its entire strategy is for you to waste time shooting it, I am a long time eldar player and I really dont know why people even take wraith knights..

FMC spam is probably the most competitive and commonly seen Daemon list. Wraithknights are one of the worst units that they can run into. Strength 10 at range or in close combat makes very short work of most big Daemons once they hit the ground.

As an Eldar player, I love my two Knights. They synergize incredibly well with 4+ Serpents, as they fill the holes that army has.

To answer the OP, take Psychic Shriek on all of your flying psykers. 3-4 Shrieks will reliably down a Knight a turn.

See, I've yet to face a Wraithknight...you're making me scared lol. I only faced a Riptide once, and it did nothing all game. Should I worry about it in the future? In the hands of perhaps a better player is it something I need fear?

More along the lines of what the OP asked, will my 2 FMC Nurgle DPs (usually with Balesword), be enough for when I do eventually play an Eldar player with Wraithknights?


Edit** fixed a spelling issue that was bugging me.

 greg0985 wrote:

 JGrand wrote:

ignore it, its a 240 point model with 2 shots, or a 300 point model with a scatter laser and 2 templates. Its entire strategy is for you to waste time shooting it, I am a long time eldar player and I really dont know why people even take wraith knights..

FMC spam is probably the most competitive and commonly seen Daemon list. Wraithknights are one of the worst units that they can run into. Strength 10 at range or in close combat makes very short work of most big Daemons once they hit the ground.

As an Eldar player, I love my two Knights. They synergize incredibly well with 4+ Serpents, as they fill the holes that army has.

To answer the OP, take Psychic Shriek on all of your flying psykers. 3-4 Shrieks will reliably down a Knight a turn.

See, I've yet to face a Wraithknight...your making me scared lol. I only faced a Riptide once, and it did nothing all game. Should I worry about it in the future? In the hands of perhaps a better player is it something I need fear?

More along the lines of what the OP asked, will my 2 FMC Nurgle DPs (usually with Balesword), be enough for when I do eventually play an Eldar player with Wraithknights?

I think so, Balesword DPs should be able to crunch a WK with smash before reprisals in CC.

Large units of daemonettes, defended well (with that funny banner and sheer numbers). Take at least two units (preferably more), as large as possible. If they get in combat its the Wraithknight, it explodes. The Wraithknight can run away, but his guns suck against daemonettes for his points and you're moving scoring units onto objectives.

As mentioned a Balesword Prince is absolutely the best option you have regarding this. It manages that wonderful point of ignoring Toughness, Wounds and Armour, with the WS to make that redundant as well. Shrouded and Jink are enough for a 3+ Cover which combined with Flight, should pretty much guarantee you make it into combat as well.

If your list does not include a Nurgle Prince which is quite likely, consider Slaaneshii units in large numbers. Rending dodges both the Toughness and Armour while you should have enough attacks to get around the high wound-count.

However do *not* use a Prince without a Balesword since you will not kill it before the S10 attacks destroy you. Telepathy works either to remove it from the fight or wear it down with Shrieks, or you can always hold out for a lucky Warlord roll with Instant Death.

It isnt exactly easy to ignore, if it gets into combat with your hounds they cannot hurt it (past them charging it) and will win, it may be a few turns but with instal killing they will be testing at low LD each turn losing a few more. If it gets into combat with your troops the same thing.

As you are running tzeentch heralds, try going for Bolt of Change or infernal gateway, preferbly with perfect timing and with locus of conjuration, d6+5 for str means you can wound it, a luckly roll means you are wounding it on 2's with no save (unless it is shield one). Daemonettes or Steeds will also be good at rending it to death, last time I faced one I got 10 daemonettes into combat with one wth prescience, hitting on 3's re rolling and rendng on 6's I managed to kill it out right, then was charged by another WK who took one out with hammer of wrath then had its last two wounds rended off it (that was the WK that I shot).

Screamers with lambreys bite are also good, but you will be tied up for a few turns.

I'd imagine a Bloodthirster would kill it in one round of combat if you could get it in there.

I'd honestly recommend ignoring it. Wave Serpents are a much bigger threat to Daemons than Wraithknights, the S10 isn't very useful if he doesn't have the firepower to ground the FMCs.

Iranna.

I think so, Balesword DPs should be able to crunch a WK with smash before reprisals in CC.

As mentioned a Balesword Prince is absolutely the best option you have regarding this. It manages that wonderful point of ignoring Toughness, Wounds and Armour, with the WS to make that redundant as well. Shrouded and Jink are enough for a 3+ Cover which combined with Flight, should pretty much guarantee you make it into combat as well.

If your list does not include a Nurgle Prince which is quite likely, consider Slaaneshii units in large numbers. Rending dodges both the Toughness and Armour while you should have enough attacks to get around the high wound-count.

However do *not* use a Prince without a Balesword since you will not kill it before the S10 attacks destroy you. Telepathy works either to remove it from the fight or wear it down with Shrieks, or you can always hold out for a lucky Warlord roll with Instant Death.

See, I've yet to face a Wraithknight...you're making me scared lol. I only faced a Riptide once, and it did nothing all game. Should I worry about it in the future? In the hands of perhaps a better player is it something I need fear?

More along the lines of what the OP asked, will my 2 FMC Nurgle DPs (usually with Balesword), be enough for when I do eventually play an Eldar player with Wraithknights?

Riptides are great units, but the Knight scares Daemon lists because of the strength 10 output. The expensive T5 FMCs are all but dead once they hit the ground.

I'd caution against assuming the Balesword will work. Knights have a 36" range and are happy to sit in area terrain and pop two shots at the FMCs that fall from the sky. If you charge in, you have to be able to weather 4 st 10 attacks before striking. The best answer is to Shriek them down.

I love large squads of daemonettes. My armies always include at least one squad. They eat wraith knights and riptides for breakfast.

Get it in melee with a squad of 10ish anything.

It only has 3 attacks IIRC. So it splats one daemon a turn. You're fearless so losing doesn't matter much. Now its tied up for the rest of the game.

And if they are Daemonettes you actually might kill it.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Get it in melee with a squad of 10ish anything.

It only has 3 attacks IIRC. So it splats one daemon a turn. You're fearless so losing doesn't matter much. Now its tied up for the rest of the game.

And if they are Daemonettes you actually might kill it.

4 attacks actually. Daemons auto pass morale but are not fearless. If they lose combat, they're taking instability tests every assault phase and losing more models since all the troops have very low leadership. Tarpitting with a unit that loses combat every turn is actually a very bad idea.

Demons have as much rending as you can put in an army outside eldar's pseudo rending. It only takes 72 rending attacks at WS4 or 54 WS5+ attacks to kill a wraithknight. You should be able to do that with a few units. Wraithknigh does ~1.3 S10 wounds a turn to you, which really isnt that bad when you consider that you can probably put 3 rends on him per turn. Honestly, demons are better kitted out to dealing with a WK than most armies, but have a need to do so more than other armies.

Even with 4 attacks, it only does 1.48 wounds a turn after 5++ invulns.

If you do at least 1 rending wound a turn with your daemonettes you are in pretty good shape.

The Wraithknight does NOT want to be in combat. Its a shooty MC, not a melee one.

Get it in melee with a squad of 10ish anything.

It only has 3 attacks IIRC. So it splats one daemon a turn. You're fearless so losing doesn't matter much. Now its tied up for the rest of the game.

And if they are Daemonettes you actually might kill it.

Gotta love theory hammer based on a number of incorrect rules.

A prescience'd Wraithknight can easily put down 2-4 Daemons a turn, even if they get the charge. Daemonic instability (often at LD7 BEFORE modifiers) isn't great. Knights will get out of combat with that 10 count unit very quickly.

Already been corrected.

Still without prescience a Wraithknight isn't going to kill more than 1, maybe 2 daemons a turn. Daemonettes can easily get at least an equal number of rending wounds to counter.

'd caution against assuming the Balesword will work. Knights have a 36" range and are happy to sit in area terrain and pop two shots at the FMCs that fall from the sky. If you charge in, you have to be able to weather 4 st 10 attacks before striking. The best answer is to Shriek them down.

What am I missing? A warp-forged Nurgle DP shuld get in his smash and hammer attacks. I'm sure not worried about a few overwatch shots. I think it is a good match up for ther DP. Does he not strikes before him in combat, Poisen 4+, Instant Death. In fact = do i even need smash? no.

 felixcat wrote:

'd caution against assuming the Balesword will work. Knights have a 36" range and are happy to sit in area terrain and pop two shots at the FMCs that fall from the sky. If you charge in, you have to be able to weather 4 st 10 attacks before striking. The best answer is to Shriek them down.

What am I missing? A warp-forged Nurgle DP shuld get in his smash and hammer attacks. I'm sure not worried about a few overwatch shots. I think it is a good match up for ther DP. Does he not strikes before him in combat, Poisen 4+, Instant Death. In fact = do i even need smash? no.

If the WK owner knows a poisoned ID weapon is coming at him, he'll stand in terrain and the WK will strike before the DP. Unless you rolled iron arm, the WK can ID the DP before he swings. If you have a balesword prince with iron arm, you beat most things in assault anyways and you'll be the attention of shooting anyways.

What am I missing? A warp-forged Nurgle DP shuld get in his smash and hammer attacks. I'm sure not worried about a few overwatch shots. I think it is a good match up for ther DP. Does he not strikes before him in combat, Poisen 4+, Instant Death. In fact = do i even need smash? no.

If the WK owner knows a poisoned ID weapon is coming at him, he'll stand in terrain and the WK will strike before the DP. Unless you rolled iron arm, the WK can ID the DP before he swings. If you have a balesword prince with iron arm, you beat most things in assault anyways and you'll be the attention of shooting anyways.

+1

Terrain is your friend. Most MCs can't mitigate the effect of charging through terrain. You can never assume incompetent play. Smart players put a Knight in area and wait for that assault.

I was under the impression that simply standing in terrain is not enough, but the Daemon Prince must physically cross the terrain during the charge. If the Knight is not fully in area terrain with that massive base of his, could the Prince not simply charge the base that is exposed?

Failing that, a Skull Cannon will grant the Prince grenades and isn't exactly a niche piece of equipment. Grants grenades with great accuracy and does a good job of shredding Rangers the rest of the game.

Mozzamanx wrote:
I was under the impression that simply standing in terrain is not enough, but the Daemon Prince must physically cross the terrain during the charge. If the Knight is not fully in area terrain with that massive base of his, could the Prince not simply charge the base that is exposed?

Failing that, a Skull Cannon will grant the Prince grenades and isn't exactly a niche piece of equipment. Grants grenades with great accuracy and does a good job of shredding Rangers the rest of the game.

Your impression is incorrect. If an assaulting unit has to move through any terrain when assaulting, they're init1 unless they have grenades. And you always have to take the shortest direct path so even if the WK base is poking out on the side, you still have to go straight even if terrain is in the way.

Skull cannons can work if you can keep them alive two plus turns.

What you can do though is assault the WK with another unit before you assault with your DP thus avoiding the initiative penalty. I'm sure my opponents will want to keep their WK in terrain. That makes him static and gives me the opportunity to play tricks also. I can assualt with a unit other than my DP first.

 zephoid wrote:
Demons have as much rending as you can put in an army outside eldar's pseudo rending. It only takes 72 rending attacks at WS4 or 54 WS5+ attacks to kill a wraithknight. You should be able to do that with a few units. Wraithknigh does ~1.3 S10 wounds a turn to you, which really isnt that bad when you consider that you can probably put 3 rends on him per turn. Honestly, demons are better kitted out to dealing with a WK than most armies, but have a need to do so more than other armies.

Thanks for the math hammer, FYI 10 Daemonettes if getting the charge can do that in 2 assault phases, 10 with a champion kick out 31 attacks on the charge plus 21 the round after, you will lose a few so its better to have a few more though and prescience will help a lot. They are also better then using mutli wound models due to the str 10. Again it is all about getting the charge off and not going through terrain (so will be striking same time as the WK).

Although in a competitive setting, daemonettes wont be as good when facing dual WK (assuming my current meta of 1650-1850) as massed WS spam will really whittle them down I am more inclined to try daemonettes as a counter if facing three WK's as, at those point levels and due to the cost of troop tax and WS's and trip WK you wont be able to field many WS's. Dual WK worries me more then trip WK due to this fact, one doesnt worry me at all.

I have a tournment this weekend in the UK, its one of the big ones and due to one of the house rule FAQ's being ignore cover does only work against wounds I expect to see a lot of darn WS's and dual and trip WK lists!, I am of course running daemons, I will report back after with my findings in the field .

MarkyMark wrote:

 zephoid wrote:
Demons have as much rending as you can put in an army outside eldar's pseudo rending. It only takes 72 rending attacks at WS4 or 54 WS5+ attacks to kill a wraithknight. You should be able to do that with a few units. Wraithknigh does ~1.3 S10 wounds a turn to you, which really isnt that bad when you consider that you can probably put 3 rends on him per turn. Honestly, demons are better kitted out to dealing with a WK than most armies, but have a need to do so more than other armies.

Thanks for the math hammer, FYI 10 Daemonettes if getting the charge can do that in 2 assault phases, 10 with a champion kick out 31 attacks on the charge plus 21 the round after, you will lose a few so its better to have a few more though and prescience will help a lot. They are also better then using mutli wound models due to the str 10. Again it is all about getting the charge off and not going through terrain (so will be striking same time as the WK).

Although in a competitive setting, daemonettes wont be as good when facing dual WK (assuming my current meta of 1650-1850) as massed WS spam will really whittle them down I am more inclined to try daemonettes as a counter if facing three WK's as, at those point levels and due to the cost of troop tax and WS's and trip WK you wont be able to field many WS's. Dual WK worries me more then trip WK due to this fact, one doesnt worry me at all.

I have a tournment this weekend in the UK, its one of the big ones and due to one of the house rule FAQ's being ignore cover does only work against wounds I expect to see a lot of darn WS's and dual and trip WK lists!, I am of course running daemons, I will report back after with my findings in the field .

Wow they house ruled that "ignores cover" doesn't actually ignore cover on vehicles? Man I'm glad I don't play there.

 hyv3mynd wrote:


Wow they house ruled that "ignores cover" doesn't actually ignore cover on vehicles? Man I'm glad I don't play there.

It's not really a House Rule so much as a complete rules change.

Iranna.