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So I was just curious, What armies are the best at close combat? Chaos Daemons should be rather good at it since most of their army have no shooting. Orks and Tyranids should be good too since they have the numbers, But what other armies are good at close combat?

Well, the following armies are *supposed* to be good at close combat:

1) Tyranids
2) Orks
3) Daemons
4) Blood Angels
5) Black Templars

That last one has of course now been rolled into the new Marine Codex, so their close combat performance remains to be seen, but it's likely to be "ok" with much better shooting if the leaks are anything to go by.

The big problem is that 6th edition rules tipped the scales far in favour of shooting over close combat. Dedicated close combat armies took some nerfs that, while individually small, added up to a big performance problem when compared to the improved shooting the newer books like Tau and Eldar are capable of putting out.

Daemons can still do really well but largely because their Troops got much cheaper and because they can take multiple FMCs, which are much more likely to actually make it into combat. Otherwise, these armies tend to have problems, and those that do have answers have them in shooting form.

Tyranids are generally regarded as the best followed by Orks, Daemons, and Blood Angels/Chaos Space Marines. Certain Necron, Dark Eldar, Grey Knight, and Eldar lists can also be very nasty in assault. But generally Tyranids dominate when the battles get into ranges of 0-12. You'd be surprised how nasty Tyranid short ranged shooting is to back up their legendarily nasty close combat skills.

 Kain wrote:
Tyranids are generally regarded as the best followed by Orks, Daemons, and Blood Angels/Chaos Space Marines. Certain Necron, Dark Eldar and Eldar lists can also be very nasty in assault. But generally Tyranids dominate when the battles get into ranges of 0-12. You'd be surprised how nasty Tyranid short ranged shooting is to back up their legendarily nasty close combat skills.

I wouldn't compare CSM melee to BA, BA still wins out spectacularly there.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Tyranids are generally regarded as the best followed by Orks, Daemons, and Blood Angels/Chaos Space Marines. Certain Necron, Dark Eldar and Eldar lists can also be very nasty in assault. But generally Tyranids dominate when the battles get into ranges of 0-12. You'd be surprised how nasty Tyranid short ranged shooting is to back up their legendarily nasty close combat skills.

I wouldn't compare CSM melee to BA, BA still wins out spectacularly there.

I know how much Zerkers getting utterly demolished by their points in Death Company hurts you man.

I would put Dark Eldar solidly above Blood Angels, Chaos, and Orks if you are looking at two close combat armies fighting against one another. Daemons are a give or take thing. That said, when Dark Eldar tool up for close combat they are horrifyingly scary opponents in melee. The part where they fall flat is in the delivery. AV 10 vehicles and S4 explosions on the guys inside (wyches only have 6+ armor saves) often leaves you with only a couple of models left should you position yourself poorly or face a gunline on an open table.

I'm looking at Melee armies because my main army is Tau and while I love them, My friends find them very boring to play against, So I desided to try something compleately diferent. I dont realy want Orcs or Tyranids cus we have a guy playing both those rather frequently (And I hate facing him..) I'm considering maybe Dark Eldar, But I dont realy like their boat transports.. (Maybe they would look better without the sail and with a diferent paint job..) Does anyone know of any good alternative models for the Raiders and Ravagers?

I personally don't think Nid assaulting in and of itself is that great outside of maybe Genestealers (and they number so few, its not that hard to avoid them) and the Swarmlord. What makes Nids dangerous is the sheer amount of firepower combined with their assault capability. Its a nice 1-2 punch that most horde armies can't match.

Nid's combat ability comes from the amount of cheap models they can put on the table, shooting loads followed by assaulting, combined with rock-hard MCs that can shoot decently and mulch things in combat. Being able to team up on Close Combat weapons is nice too.


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 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I personally don't think Nid assaulting in and of itself is that great outside of maybe Genestealers (and they number so few, its not that hard to avoid them) and the Swarmlord. What makes Nids dangerous is the sheer amount of firepower combined with their assault capability. Its a nice 1-2 punch that most horde armies can't match.

When you run a lot of Genestealers they become almost petrifying. I ran 20 with a Broodlord back in the day and had a SW TWC spammer flabberghasted on how many attacks that ignored his save, struck before him and hit on 3+ I had. He simply couldn't comprehend it.

I started with DE and moved over to Nids, if you want cc i'd really recommend the Nids. You can put toxin sacs on pretty much everything for the wound re-rolls and scything talons give you the reroll 1 for hits. That being said if you don't want to play Nids i'd recommend blood angels. My main reason for saying that is they have a high points cost and death company is solid. That will save you from having to spend so much time painting a secondary army. Orks are also great. I think the main thing to remember is horde armys are a very demanding army time wise. I've got just over 90 models painted and Im around 2200 points given what i like to use.

Where are Daemons on this list?

I would say that they are the best by a significant margin.

Tau...the best way to win close combat..is to never fight it.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Where are Daemons on this list?

I would say that they are the best by a significant margin.

Daemons and Tyranids are largely interchangeable for lethality at short range.

Buffing shenanigans help both armies greatly whether through psychic powers or gifts.

Daemons are better at delivering squishies via special deployment and proper usage of gifts, but they don't even rank in the same league when it comes to monstrous creature spam.

Both can make for impressive psychic choirs though.

Orks aren't really that great in close combat, Daemons are literally tens of times more effective IMO

Don't forget Necrons. I know it sounds weird but considering Wraiths that are imo probably the best melee unit for it's points int he game. Destroyer lords with mindshackle can beat pretty much anyone in a challenge as well.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Where are Daemons on this list?

I would say that they are the best by a significant margin.

I'd have to agree here. Daemons are the insanity when it comes to 6th close combat prowess. I've seen lists with screamers and slaanesh furies just demolish things you'd think they have no business doing.
Fleshhounds
Screamers
Slaanesh Furies
Bloodthirsters
All solid units for mollywhomping someones face.

Actually I'd say Orks because they're great at shooting and CC units need shooting to back them up.

For Daemons I just have one question, How do you get them into combat? No transports means they will get shot to bits while advancing across the battlefield. Sure you could deep strike half the army but, Then you start with less on the board, Suffer damage from deep striking, Stand arround getting shot for a round, And then charge..

Simple, really - you get across by using the two things the new Codex has made Daemons really good for. LOTS of cheap basic units for target saturation, and multiple hard-to-hit FMC's.

Having faster units like Seekers and Juggernauts can help put the pressure on a little early too, though that tends to wind up with those particular units being dead first.

Daemons are the top assault army, imo. Fast, cheap, relatively hard hitting. At the end of the day, the majority of Tyranid assault units hardly ever get used. The only competitive Tyranid build is primarily ranged (tervi/terma spam) with some assault capable FMC's.

Dark Eldar have some really good Assault troops but not sure they field the ebst pure assault army. Incubi and Archons (now I know about huskblades) are very good in combat. Wyches I find fail me too much..........

OIf course Orks extol the virtue - "Quantity has a Quality all of its own"

 Mr Morden wrote:
Dark Eldar have some really good Assault troops but not sure they field the ebst pure assault army. Incubi and Archons (now I know about huskblades) are very good in combat. Wyches I find fail me too much..........

This is why I didn't list the Dark Eldar myself. They are really good in assault - but they're also really good at shooting too. They're also not seen as a close-combat army, they can just be built that way, but that's but one of a few options.

It's the same with Chaos Marines, if you ask me.

DE have beast pack and grotesque spam too though. Those are both tournament quality armies, especially when combined with eldar allies. However, i dont think those rank with nids or demons, but they certainly smash BA melee ability.

1. Stupid Necrons with their stupid mindshackle scarabs.

2. Daemons.

Thud wrote:
1. Stupid Necrons with their stupid mindshackle scarabs.

Yes, please tell us how that stops a horde from ripping the Lord's squad apart.

 Wilytank wrote:

Thud wrote:
1. Stupid Necrons with their stupid mindshackle scarabs.

Yes, please tell us how that stops a horde from ripping the Lord's squad apart.

MSS on enemy Character, Wraiths kill the living crap out of the enemy unit.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Orks aren't really that great in close combat

Seconded. Orks were good in close combat because they had untargetable Nobz in 5th edition. In 6h, they're just average. Only Nob Bikers are good, and only if there isn't a Vindicator, Dreadknight or Daemon Prince on the other side.

Apparently a necron lord can really ruin somebody's day with mind shackle scarabs but I've never had the misfortune of playing against that.

For my money the best melee I've seen have been dark eldar and my own tyranids...the swarm lord and my trygon primes have always made an absolute mess of my enemies in melee

In previous editions (I think it was 4th b maybe 5th) I've seen gene stealers positively wreck stuff in melee...but that was years and years ago

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

Thud wrote:
1. Stupid Necrons with their stupid mindshackle scarabs.

Yes, please tell us how that stops a horde from ripping the Lord's squad apart.

MSS on enemy Character, Wraiths kill the living crap out of the enemy unit.

...Don't take the character? Tyranids don't have them and Orks and Daemons are optional. I can see a unit of Plague Bearers with the 2+ poison banner beating out Canoptek Wraiths.

I'd agree that orks aren't bad at CC per se, but they're not good. Same with tyranid. 6th ed. really hates both CC and hordes, and both tyranid and orks suffer from being both.

I actually think CSM is a good CC army. They've got tons of options that do nothing but close combat, and they've got lots of regular options which are the same as their SM equivalents, but better in CC. Plus, you can give anything MoK for +1 A, FC, and "fleet", or MoS for +1I and FNP.

More importantly, there is little that's actually bad in CC. Obliterators are shooters, but they're still a paladin with a powerfist in CC. And they can take MoK. Their devestators can take BP+CCW, and MoK, and that includes the guys with the heavy weapons. Their shootiest units are better in CC than most units in the game. Hell, even their flier attacks things in close combat.