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Hello,

I'm playing a 1750pt match next week against Foot-dar and I really have no idea where to start or how to go about it. This is what I have unit wise

Nurgle DP
Huron Blackheart
2 Terminator Lords
Typhus
PA Lord
11 Terminators
2 Chaos Space
5 Possessed Marines
17 Khorne Berzerkers.
53 Bolter Marines
5 Marines w Meltas, 5 with flamers, 5 with plasmas
1 Marine with ML, 1 with Lascannon, 1 with Autocannon
8 Aspiring Champions
1 Dreadnought (Helbrute?)
1 Defiler
1 Rhino
2 Land Raiders

Any ideas, I'm at a loss because I ain't fought Eldar in about 2 editions.

I would recommend as an Eldar player for you to bring the raiders. eldar do have a lot of lances but by-and-large they will have one or two units with one in exchange for the more prevalent scatter laser. They may pop the raiders at some point but it will be well worth it if they have to sacrifice that much fire power to take them down.

Inside one of the raiders take a squad of MoT Termies with combi-meltas and powerfists. With MoT they become much more reliable in the face of Eldar AP 2 and melee is the bane of Eldar vehicles.

In the other one put a squad of chainsword marines for the same reason. Big armored shell transporting MoK marines into a position to KILL,MAIM, BURN!! whatever vehicle the lascannons fail to kill in charge range.

Without a hellturkey you lose a lot of killy but it is not crucial

Power armor lord with jump pack and a couple of counts-as raptors running around breaking things is always nice

Fill the rest with MoN infantry or plague marines both with bolters as you want them to be holding objectives rather than bringing them into assault range.

I dont recommend Slaaneshi units since all Eldar have hatred Slaanesh but beyond that i'd be pretty confident with most CSM builds against Eldarif you can make sure you have some kind of secondary save like cover or a decent invul

I was considering a dual Raider list with Huron Blackheart so they can infiltrate in closer to combat.

welshhoppo wrote:
I was considering a dual Raider list with Huron Blackheart so they can infiltrate in closer to combat.

pretty sure you can't infiltrate vehicles with Huron. I believe his Warlord trait says infantry units only.

You infiltrate the units, doesn't that mean that the designated transport infiltrates with them?

welshhoppo wrote:
You infiltrate the units, doesn't that mean that the designated transport infiltrates with them?

Yes but they have to be dedicated, so will only work for Terminators in this case.

Would that be any good against Eldar? Say a LR full of MoT Termies with a Biomancy Sorcerer?

welshhoppo wrote:
Would that be any good against Eldar? Say a LR full of MoT Termies with a Biomancy Sorcerer?

Against Footdar? No, I would say definitely not. You are paying over 500pts for two tanks solely to get the Termies into combat, as Land Raiders don't really have the right guns for fighting Footdar.

The key to your victory is to be able to weather the initial hail of fire and strike back. Footdar are very easy to kill, getting the shot off in the first place is the issue. Footdar also throw out most AP5, AP- or AP2, so there is no significant distinction between MEQs and TEQs. As such, spending extra points for the survivability of TEQs is largely pointless.

Just to be clear, you want to tailor a list to fight footdar only?

Based on your models, I would try this:
Terminator lord + black mace, MoS (join flamer chosen)
Terminator lord + BBoS (join foot blob)
Chosen x5 + flamers x4 (in land raider)
Chosen x5 + plasma x4 (in land raider)
CSM x20 + MoS, icon of excess
CSM x10 + autocannon, rhino
Land Raider + dirge caster
Land Raider + dirge caster
Defiler

Should be less than 1750 to add units/upgrades to flavor. Run the land raiders butt to butt to create a big wall to block the 20 man unit on foot... so they cannot be shot. Black mace and burning brand of skalathrax do bad things to eldar. So would a 4x flamer and 4x plasma chosen squad dumped out of land raiders.

True footdar would only have dragons, wraiths, and lances to deal with av13/14. You'd have 12 av14 hull points with the raiders and defiler so that will give them a hard time.

The 20 man blob with icon of excess has FnP and fearless from a lord so that's a serious scoring unit. Just use them as a skirmishing bolter unit.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
True footdar would only have dragons, wraiths, and lances to deal with av13/14. You'd have 12 av14 hull points with the raiders and defiler so that will give them a hard time.

Yeah but true Footdar don't care about Land Raider in the first place so they are really just a really big point sink.

Why don't footdar care about land raiders? They're delivering 4 plasmas, 4 flamers, and a the black mace murders low toughness units. Not to mention dirge casters to stop over watch and tank shock units off objectives.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Why don't footdar care about land raiders? They're delivering 4 plasmas, 4 flamers, and a the black mace murders low toughness units. Not to mention dirge casters to stop over watch and tank shock units off objectives.

Because you are taking them solely to deliver those units, and still with no guarantees of getting there. The guns on the Land Raider are not designed for taking out masses of infantry. And Tank Shocking again is dependent on the Raider surviving, and in most cases not necessary. I can't remember the last time I saw a last turn objective tank shock; it was 5th edition at least. Objectively speaking 500pts+ just to get 10 MEQs across the board is a really bad investment in points. Lastly regarding overwatch, the Dirge Caster is overrated because frankly overwatch is overrated. With the exception of a few units such as Paladinstars or Wraithscythes, most units won't make much of a dent with overwatch. And if you must have it, there are much cheaper ways of getting Dirge Casters into your army.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Just to be clear, you want to tailor a list to fight footdar only?

Based on your models, I would try this:
Terminator lord + black mace, MoS (join flamer chosen)
Terminator lord + BBoS (join foot blob)
Chosen x5 + flamers x4 (in land raider)
Chosen x5 + plasma x4 (in land raider)
CSM x20 + MoS, icon of excess
CSM x10 + autocannon, rhino
Land Raider + dirge caster
Land Raider + dirge caster
Defiler

Should be less than 1750 to add units/upgrades to flavor. Run the land raiders butt to butt to create a big wall to block the 20 man unit on foot... so they cannot be shot. Black mace and burning brand of skalathrax do bad things to eldar. So would a 4x flamer and 4x plasma chosen squad dumped out of land raiders.

True footdar would only have dragons, wraiths, and lances to deal with av13/14. You'd have 12 av14 hull points with the raiders and defiler so that will give them a hard time.

The 20 man blob with icon of excess has FnP and fearless from a lord so that's a serious scoring unit. Just use them as a skirmishing bolter unit.

I do like that idea, maybe I will steal some of it when I go against the fellow.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Why don't footdar care about land raiders? They're delivering 4 plasmas, 4 flamers, and a the black mace murders low toughness units. Not to mention dirge casters to stop over watch and tank shock units off objectives.

Because you are taking them solely to deliver those units, and still with no guarantees of getting there. The guns on the Land Raider are not designed for taking out masses of infantry. And Tank Shocking again is dependent on the Raider surviving, and in most cases not necessary. I can't remember the last time I saw a last turn objective tank shock; it was 5th edition at least. Objectively speaking 500pts+ just to get 10 MEQs across the board is a really bad investment in points. Lastly regarding overwatch, the Dirge Caster is overrated because frankly overwatch is overrated. With the exception of a few units such as Paladinstars or Wraithscythes, most units won't make much of a dent with overwatch. And if you must have it, there are much cheaper ways of getting Dirge Casters into your army.

You obviously haven't read my post still and are thinking in a vacuum. This is footdar vs CSM only. Not take all comers. Two raiders butt to butt block LoS to everything behind them essentially negating all footdar shooting unless they target the av13 and 14. Move up the raiders and leave a gap for the big blob to Dakka through. Throw out the ap3 torrent template and defiler cannon to take out dragons and wraiths or anything with a lance. Then use the land raider flat out move to block the gap and protect the rear unit.

Once you're within 18-24 of key targets, move up 6, disembark 6 and hit them with 4 flamers and 4 rapid fire plasma. Break off the black mace lord and assault. That move alone will wipe out 3 footdar units plus another from the 20-40 bolter shots from the blob. If you get the defiler into assault, even better. Only dragons and the avatar can hurt it.

If your movement and target priority are good, there's not a lot footdar can do against this. Watch out for deep striking spiders and outflanking war walkers and you'll be fine. If the opponent brings true footdar that is.

Right, using hyv3mynd as a guide, I can come up with this.

Terminator Lord - Warlord
MoS
Black Mace

165pts

Terminator Lord
BBoS
Powerfist

150pts

5 Chosen
4 x flamers

110pts

5 Chosen
4 x Plasma guns

150pts

20 x CSM
Mos
Icon of Excess

340pts

10 x CSM
Autocannon
Plasma Gun

165pts

Land Raider
Dirge Caster

235pts

Land Raider
Dirge Caster

235pts

Defiler
Havoc Launcher
Reaper Autocannon

200pts

1750pts on the nose. How would this do?

 hyv3mynd wrote:
You obviously haven't read my post still and are thinking in a vacuum. This is footdar vs CSM only. Not take all comers

Right, because my mentioning of Footdar specifically on several occasions in all of my posts here means I must obviously be thinking a generalist vacuum

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Two raiders butt to butt block LoS to everything behind them essentially negating all footdar shooting unless they target the av13 and 14.

You must play on a very small table then if a wall only 12" wide blocks LOS to everything spread across the entire board. But i don't believe that, I just think you are looking at all of this under the assumption of a best case scenario, something that is unfortunately all too common on the net these days.

I thnk hyv3mynd's list and tactics look solid. If you've got a better list suggest it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think there might be a role for a black mace daemon prince behind those land raiders instead of one of the lords.

I was looking at him, but the fact that a bare bones DP with a mace already costs 205pts before you give him PA, Wings or Psychic powers means he is far too expensive.


Which sucks.

If the opponent is footdar its generally pretty easy to work out the direction shooting is coming form. 1 LR can give complete LOS to a dp from at least 120 degs. If youve got 2... well then. The big problem of DPs is getting them to the combat without losing to many wounds. If you can solve that (like 2 LRs do) then i feel like the damage they will do will far exceed the 265 odd points.

Oh, getting a flying DP into combat is quite easy provided you aren't an idiot about it. He moves 24 inches off the bat, plus a re-rollable charging distance. He can cover most of the board in one turn if he is lucky.

But the problem with dp is not their mobility but their vulnerability. Getting your dp to cc without him losing to many wounds and supporting it so it isn't an easy target after the cc has finished is the crux.

Does footdar include wraithknights? and wraithlords?

How about Huron and 3 units of 20 CSM mid field bolters w plasma/flamers? Just shoot them away with cheap bolter numbers. That's only just over 1000 points and that is something the enemy has to deal which works great with hurons infiltration. Add in a sprinkling of a DP or termi lord/termis/zerkers/defiler and some other goodies to taste. Thats a lot of bodies for the eldar player to shift, you can own the middle of the board.

Without AC havocs, or oblits (the dakka), spawn, bikers or a mounted chaos lord (the fast nasty stuff) i am not sure about the extras.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

welshhoppo wrote:
Would that be any good against Eldar? Say a LR full of MoT Termies with a Biomancy Sorcerer?

The key to your victory is to be able to weather the initial hail of fire and strike back. Footdar are very easy to kill, getting the shot off in the first place is the issue. Footdar also throw out most AP5, AP- or AP2, so there is no significant distinction between MEQs and TEQs. As such, spending extra points for the survivability of TEQs is largely pointless.

Teq will survive twice as long against Ap5 and Ap- and 1/3 longer against AP2.
Teq have twinlinked bolters(sometimes it helps)
Teq with power maces do MUCH more damage to eldar. 2 attacks each, wound on 2s no save. Honestly I would leave the terminators unmarked and cheap.