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i need to add a fast attack to my army. i was planing on getting hell drakes but considering that they only have one weapon and that if my enemy gets a penetrating hit and get destroys that weapon then the only thing i can do is vector strike .
help me out guys helldrakes or raptors? or even both ?

The overwhelming winner in terms of gameplay is the Heldrake. It is generally considered one of the strongest units in the game and with good reason. It produces utterly devastating, reliable damage output and will eviscerate essentially any infantry in it's path. It is also exceptionally resilient and hard to put down, as well as having the mobility to get where it needs to.

That said, Raptors are cool. They can carry a very decent proportion of Melta weaponry and excel as fast-moving tank hunters. They lack the resilience to really shine as a melee brawler unit however and are probably best used as sacrificial firepower.

So yes, Raptors do have a job. Heldrakes also have a job and fill it much better. However, Raptors will earn you more friends and look better IMO.

HELLDRAKES.

I am a CSM and BA player and I have brought some of my BA blitzkrieg tactics with me. I use both raptors and 'drakes, and although raptors are really good as a what seems to be a harassing unit until it's behind their russ with two MMs.

However Hellturkeys are THE cheese. I used them yesterday against a squad of SM and I killed them all instantly with it's strength 6 AP 3 flamer, wounding on 2+ with no armour saves. Remember they have a strength 7 vector strike, and if you have two turkeys doing it then any vehicle they encounter is effectively scrap. They have a daemon save that is 5+ and a 1 in 3 chance to regenerate a hull point each turn if they have lost one.

To cut to the point, the more Helldakes, the more screaming MEQs. Termies are still tough nuts for them to crack, but drakes don't have to kill EVERYTHING on the board themselves so you should be fine. I have never lost a helldrake, and I have played 12 matches with them.

I run 2 drakes and one raptor squad of 7 myself, giving four meat shields for the MMs and the sarge should everything turn to crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Helldrakes also have funny little chicken legs, so, y'know... get them.

Get a hell drake first best anti infintary in the dex

Then think about what you want raptors to do, anti tank? oblits are better at it

I run a Night Lords themed army, and I run both. I take the Helldrake primarily to deter aircraft, and secondarily to kill infantry. I take raptors for the versitility. WIth cultists double FOC is viable and more meltas/plasmas jump packing around crazily. Yes helldrakes do anti-infantry better than the 5 man raptors and oblits do do better at killing vehicles most of the time, but being able to put precision firepower exactly where, you want it at the range you want it is incredible and 30 man MoK cultists have a tendency to flush out just about anything infantry wise anyways.

On its own a helldrake is a better platform, but in the context of the army I cant forsee playing a game without my raptors. I know that if you shoot my raptors with a vendetta, some will die but I can be certain some melta will survive. If a Vendetta engages a Helldrake it has the possibility of going poof in a single shot.

Gameplay-wise, the Heldrake is king of the hill. I think it's the most devastating thing out there right now.

Raptors have great models, can take great weapons, and are pretty decent as a cc unit as well. In other words, both are great, but the Heldrake is just the big kahuna of the tabletop.

Raptors are much like Assault Marines, which is to say that they're decent at best and disappointingly mediocre at worst.

Unfortunately they exist in the same slot as many of the Traitor Legions' best toys like Bikes, Heldrakes, and Chaos Spawn.

You can mark them up and upgrade them but then they start getting expensive, and in this current meta, Expensive+One wound+3+ armor=Dead men walking.

Which is quite sad as jump units got quite a good number of buffs this edition.

If between the two helldrake with baleflamer all day. Raptors are still a good unit but when choosing between the two turkey wins

Raptors just to be different?

Put it this way... how many of your friends are competitive, and how many of them do you wish to keep?
(The Heldrake is a right royal pain in the backside to play against if you're a casual player who's not expecting it.)

Helldrakes and raptors do very different things. It's like asking if you should take a lord or a sorcerer.

Helldrakes kill space marines. Very well, but that's pretty much all they do. The combination of them showing up late, vector strike being random and only S7, and the ability for your opponent to displace makes them only nuisance weapons against everything else. If what you're struggling with is power armor, though, then knock yourself out.

Raptors, on the other hand, aren't nearly as good against marines, but are the better balanced choice. Deepstriking a pair of meltaguns (and a combi-melta) means that every vehicle in the game has something to fear. Likewise, they can ACTUALLY get into close combat, which means that they can handle hordes much better. They can also take marks and icons for more options in set up, and they can also start on the board, which means they can be used as a defensive or offensive weapon.

Generally, I'd go for the raptors, as I don't like the idea of spending nearly 200 points for such a one-trick pony. Unless, of course, that one trick is the only thing your list is really lacking at the moment.

 Super Ready wrote:
Put it this way... how many of your friends are competitive, and how many of them do you wish to keep?
(The Heldrake is a right royal pain in the backside to play against if you're a casual player who's not expecting it.)

Pretty much this.

Take Heldrakes for tourneyhammer, Raptors for beerhammer. Never, ever mix them up

Raptors are really great if you need to get special weapons to a hot spot quickly, either by deep striking or by 12" moving. They also worked well for me to bind units into cc which you *really* need tied up.

Heldrakes, as already said, work wonders against MEQ. Even with a hades autocannon they are nice to take. Those D3+1 S7 hits against side armor by vector strike have pwned more than one vehicle for me. I take one in every list these days. Just don't build your list only around it.

So if you have to decide between them I would get the heldrake first if you already have an army with sufficient unit substance. If you still need some units take the raptors. Just my 2 cents

Just to beat the dead horse, Heldrake is, in my opinion and many others, the single best unit in the competitive game of Warhammer 40k. There's other units that are good in Warhammer 40k for other reasons, but looking at:

Consistency. He will fly on, vector strike something, then fry any scoring unit in the game that you need dead that isn't 2+ armor. Then Soulblaze, don't forget that.
Value. At 170 he is undercosted.
Resiliency. 12/12/10 is no joke. 5+ all the time. Regenerating hull points. Flyer. Shrugging of shaken and stunned. My God.
You're going to be hard pressed to find a better unit in the game for its points. Vendetta still comes to mind but in the current "meta," the Turkey still soars above it.
When you try to make a list like that for Raptors, you end up grasping at straws or grossly over exaggerating their abilities.

Codex: Heldrake Target Practice is right around the corner.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Codex: Heldrake Target Practice is right around the corner.

Not really; I'd be very surprised to see either the Hunter or the Stalker getting much use when they hit most units in the game on 6's. Also with S7 their odds aren't very good against the Drake anyway. Stalker strips 1.2HP on average, and the Hunter only 0.37HP on the initial shot.

 Brymm wrote:
Just to beat the dead horse, Heldrake is, in my opinion and many others, the single best unit in the competitive game of Warhammer 40k. There's other units that are good in Warhammer 40k for other reasons, but looking at:

Consistency. He will fly on, vector strike something, then fry any scoring unit in the game that you need dead that isn't 2+ armor. Then Soulblaze, don't forget that.
Value. At 170 he is undercosted.
Resiliency. 12/12/10 is no joke. 5+ all the time. Regenerating hull points. Flyer. Shrugging of shaken and stunned. My God.
You're going to be hard pressed to find a better unit in the game for its points. Vendetta still comes to mind but in the current "meta," the Turkey still soars above it.
When you try to make a list like that for Raptors, you end up grasping at straws or grossly over exaggerating their abilities.

Pssshhhawww. The annihilation barge disagrees.

It is dirt cheap, at just over half the cost of the drake. Highly mobile and resilient, they provide great AA, AT and mediocre MC damage.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Just to beat the dead horse, Heldrake is, in my opinion and many others, the single best unit in the competitive game of Warhammer 40k. There's other units that are good in Warhammer 40k for other reasons, but looking at:

Consistency. He will fly on, vector strike something, then fry any scoring unit in the game that you need dead that isn't 2+ armor. Then Soulblaze, don't forget that.
Value. At 170 he is undercosted.
Resiliency. 12/12/10 is no joke. 5+ all the time. Regenerating hull points. Flyer. Shrugging of shaken and stunned. My God.
You're going to be hard pressed to find a better unit in the game for its points. Vendetta still comes to mind but in the current "meta," the Turkey still soars above it.
When you try to make a list like that for Raptors, you end up grasping at straws or grossly over exaggerating their abilities.

Pssshhhawww. The annihilation barge disagrees.

It is dirt cheap, at just over half the cost of the drake. Highly mobile and resilient, they provide great AA, AT and mediocre MC damage.

And have nothing to do with this thread

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Codex: Heldrake Target Practice is right around the corner.

Not really; I'd be very surprised to see either the Hunter or the Stalker getting much use when they hit most units in the game on 6's. Also with S7 their odds aren't very good against the Drake anyway. Stalker strips 1.2HP on average, and the Hunter only 0.37HP on the initial shot.

No no no, he means that Space Marines are going to be target practice FOR the Heldrakes. More 3+ armor to fry.
Funny thing is, the Heldrake doesn't need target practice because, laughably, he doesn't roll to hit. Ever.

 Brymm wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Codex: Heldrake Target Practice is right around the corner.

Not really; I'd be very surprised to see either the Hunter or the Stalker getting much use when they hit most units in the game on 6's. Also with S7 their odds aren't very good against the Drake anyway. Stalker strips 1.2HP on average, and the Hunter only 0.37HP on the initial shot.

No no no, he means that Space Marines are going to be target practice FOR the Heldrakes. More 3+ armor to fry.
Funny thing is, the Heldrake doesn't need target practice because, laughably, he doesn't roll to hit. Ever.

Ah ok, it was a bit confusing. Thanks for the clarification.

Bikes with MON look classy and are t6 2 1 unit of 9 and a sorc on bike would be something giggly you could litterly assault round 2 and kill an entire tau gunline LOL