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I want to dedicate this topic to all the little errors we find in the new codex, maybe I will even mail this to GW so they know the issues.
The first post will be updated when I wake up and have time.

So to start:
1. Space Marine bikers can take a Special Weapon!
To take one of these weapons, you simply trade in your Melee weapon or boltgun. Now if only they thought of giving them a Melee weapon or Boltgun; At the moment it's "impossible" to take a Special Weapon.

2. The Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad has a Veteran with a plasma-gun.
These cannot be taken according to the Codex: Mistake on the box or codex?


So what did you find?

1 - he's the crew of the artillery, so I don't think there's any problem there. Pretty sure it's consistent with all Artillery in 6th ed codexes.

2 - my codex doesn't mention trading in the boltgun or melee weapon for Space Marine Bikers.

Clarence wrote:

2 - my codex doesn't mention trading in the boltgun or melee weapon for Space Marine Bikers.

It's in the Special Weapon armoury entry.

Clarence wrote:
2 - my codex doesn't mention trading in the boltgun or melee weapon for Space Marine Bikers.

Precisely. People are acting like there haven't been armouries in most of the books up until now. And just like all of those other armouries, they are only used when en entry tells you take weapons from the armoury, which Bikes do not as they have their weapon options listed in their profile just like all regular units do. Armoury is for characters.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Precisely. People are acting like there haven't been armouries in most of the books up until now. And just like all of those other armouries, they are only used when en entry tells you take weapons from the armoury, which Bikes do not as they have their weapon options listed in their profile just like all regular units do. Armoury is for characters.

A) These lists detail the points values of various items of wargear available to units in your army. Many unit entries in the army list that follows may include wargear options from one or more of these lists - in each instance, the army list entry will tell you (in bold text) exactly which of these lists you may use.
B) Special Weapons: A model can replace his Melee weapon or boltgun with one of the following:
C) Up to two Space Marine Bikers may each take one item from the Special Weapons list.
D) Bikers have no Melee weapon or Boltgun.

Conclusion: They cannot take a Special Weapon, so it's a mistake.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Clarence wrote:
2 - my codex doesn't mention trading in the boltgun or melee weapon for Space Marine Bikers.

Precisely. People are acting like there haven't been armouries in most of the books up until now. And just like all of those other armouries, they are only used when en entry tells you take weapons from the armoury, which Bikes do not as they have their weapon options listed in their profile just like all regular units do. Armoury is for characters.

Actually regular units take their weapons from the armoury now.

So how much do you wanna bet this is going to be a day one FAQ?

and I think people can see the rules as intended.

Aren't SM Bikes equipt with Bolt Pistols that can be exchanged for special weapons?

No, you can only exchange the melee weapon or bolter, they don't have either.
Unless Pistols can be seen as a Melee weapon?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So how much do you wanna bet this is going to be a day one FAQ?
and I think people can see the rules as intended.

Don't bet on it.
I just want people to provide more errors, so we can mail them to GW

Space bikers have a boltgun [only it's twin-linked ]

 sing your life wrote:
Space bikers have a boltgun [only it's twin-linked ]

This. There's no issue, just trade in the bolter on the bike that they come stock with.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Space bikers have a boltgun [only it's twin-linked ]

This. There's no issue, just trade in the bolter on the bike that they come stock with.

Agreed.

The boltgun is part of the bike.
It's not in the wargear of the biker, therefore he cannot exchange it.

It's a problem caused by trying to reference to lists instead of typing it out completely.

Reminder: This is not a YMDC-thread where we try to cheese the rules.
It's just to discuss some errors so we can make GW aware of them.
So there IS an issue because according to the rules I cannot take those guns.

Kangodo wrote:
The boltgun is part of the bike.
It's not in the wargear of the biker, therefore he cannot exchange it.

Are you delibratley trying to be obtuse? If the boltgun is part of the bike and the bike is the biker's wargear, than by transitive properties, the boltgun is the marine's wargear, which he can then trade out for a special weapon, hell, his bolt pistol is also a melee weapon (by virtue of being a pistol) so he can trade that out no probs. Clearly in this case GW has given too much credit to its player's ability to interpret their meaning.

It's not in the wargear of the biker, therefore he cannot exchange it.

chaos space marine lords have been switching their bikes twin linked bolter for a demonic flamer since day 1 .

Kangodo wrote:
The boltgun is part of the bike.
It's not in the wargear of the biker, therefore he cannot exchange it.

It's a problem caused by trying to reference to lists instead of typing it out completely.

Reminder: This is not a YMDC-thread where we try to cheese the rules.
It's just to discuss some errors so we can make GW aware of them.
So there IS an issue because according to the rules I cannot take those guns.

Pg. 84 states that the bike has a TL Boltgun in the wargear..

The Bike Squad entry says that up to two models can take one item from the special weapons list.

Special weapons list says that a model can replace his melee weapon or boltgun for one of the following.

The marine and the bike are not 2 different models. The marine on the bike is one model and the TL Boltgun is his weapon, which can be exchanged.

I would say there's no question, but this is the internet....

There's no question of intent, there's just GW's gakky wording coming back out to bite us in the arse. With the logic following, some models can be using power axes instead of boltguns on their bike. See the issue? It just needs a simple FAQ to fix those people who are morons or who don't like the logic not following.

No I don't see the issue actually, you can easily explain it as something like, by removing the boltgun and ammo from the bike allows the rider the extra weight allowance to carry his heavier than normal power axe with its heavier than normal power cells.

Nobody_Holme wrote:
There's no question of intent, there's just GW's gakky wording coming back out to bite us in the arse. With the logic following, some models can be using power axes instead of boltguns on their bike. See the issue? It just needs a simple FAQ to fix those people who are morons or who don't like the logic not following.

What? That's not the case at all. They (Space Marine Bikers) are only able to exchange the boltgun with a weapon from the Special weapons list. There is no power weapon option listed under Special Weapons in the armoury.

The Biker Sergeant can exchange his bolt pistol for a Power Weapon though, but that's because he can take weapons from the Melee and/or Ranged Weapons lists -- which tell you you can only exchange a bolt pistol/melee weapon for it. Not the boltgun.

Did I miss something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Krellnus wrote:
hell, his bolt pistol is also a melee weapon (by virtue of being a pistol) so he can trade that out no probs.

I don't think that is correct. It is a close combat weapon, yes. But it is not defined as a melee weapon (pg. 60 of the BRB)

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Did I miss something?

Techmarine on a bike. (Also Dark Angel and Blood Angel characters on Bikes. BA could amusingly have THREE combi-weapons this way.)

In any case, if the intent really is that we swap bike's bolters, then that affects things. It means that melta and grav bikers cannot shoot with their bolters if they're out of range of their special weapons. It also means special weapon bikes need to be modelled differently, as they no longer have bolters.

Makumba wrote:
chaos space marine lords have been switching their bikes twin linked bolter for a demonic flamer since day 1 .

1. All Chaos Bikers do that, so let's focus on the normal bikers.
2. The codex literally says "or their bike's twin-linked boltgun with one of the following".
3. They have a CCW, a pistol ánd the bike-gun, that allows them to have 3 attacks on the charge (1 standard, 1 for two CCW and +1 for the charge) while still taking a special weapon. Space Marine bikers only have 2 attacks on the charge.

Other reference:
Blood Angels - exchange pistol
Ravenwing - May take the weapon without exchange

So what do we know?
-Blood Angels are an older codex, but they mention "exchange pistol".
-C:SM tries to save space by referring to the weapons-section, this could cause issues.
-The newer codices either A) Allow them to take a weapon or B) specifically mention you can use the TL-boltgun from the bike.

Conclusion: They just made a typo and it will be FAQ'd.

Now seriously, either try to find more 'possible mistakes' or move that discussion to YMDC.

I think the word 'take' has been overlooked here.
The option states "up to 2 bikers may take a weapon from the special weapon" or something to that extent.

That 'take' overrides the prerequisite for swapping.
If it had said may select options from... Then I'd agree with forcing and exchange.

 Crimson wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Did I miss something?

Techmarine on a bike. (Also Dark Angel and Blood Angel characters on Bikes. BA could amusingly have THREE combi-weapons this way.)

We are specifically dealing with Space Marine Bike Squads. However, it makes little difference. The techmarine on a bike has a Twin Linked Boltgun, but isn't allowed to take options from the special weapons list anyway. He can only take items from the Melee, Ranged and Special Issue lists, in which case he has options to swap his pistol and/or servo arm for. So in the end, assuming you DO exchange your bolt pistol AND servo-arm (melee weapon) you would have a Techmarine on a bike with a TL Boltgun, and 2 other weapons taken either from the Melee list, the ranged list or both.

In any case, if the intent really is that we swap bike's bolters, then that affects things. It means that melta and grav bikers cannot shoot with their bolters if they're out of range of their special weapons.

The intent IS (because it specifically tells you to) that you swap the boltgun with a special weapon for up to two of the space marine bikers. So, yes, why would you be able to fire with your boltgun if you got rid of it for a special weapon?

It also means special weapon bikes need to be modelled differently, as they no longer have bolters.

Correct. Why would this not be the case?

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Correct. Why would this not be the case?

Because it has never been like that and all comparable Bikers either take them as an additional weapon or have a line that lets them replace the bolt pistol.

The intent IS (because it specifically tells you to) that you swap the boltgun with a special weapon for up to two of the space marine bikers. So, yes, why would you be able to fire with your boltgun if you got rid of it for a special weapon?

It does not specifically tells you to.
Chaos Space Marines 'specifically' tells you to do it, with: "or their bike's twin-linked boltgun with one of the following".

And why would you be able to fire with the TL-boltgun?
Because the DA, BA and old C:SM allowed you to do that.

 Krellnus wrote:

Are you delibratley trying to be obtuse?

Are you? I cannot believe that anyone could honestly take your stance apart from intentionally trolling.

In any case, a twin-linked boltgun is not a boltgun, it's a twin-linked boltgun. You can't exchange it because the rules don't allow you to exchange twin-linked boltguns.

On a different note, is it possible the lack of option to take a special weapon in the command squad is a mistake. A veteran on the Reclusian Command Squad box is carrying a Plasma gun.

I only ask as Brother in my command squad is wielding a (super glued) melta-gun and he's a little worried about his future.

Kangodo wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
Correct. Why would this not be the case?

Because it has never been like that and all comparable Bikers either take them as an additional weapon or have a line that lets them replace the bolt pistol.

So, Thunderfire cannons can't fire as barrage now because it's never been that way before? There aren't really any comparable bikers -- Ravenwing for example simply add them because there is no requirement for them to replace it.

You could be correct and it could be changed in a FAQ --

All I'm getting at is RAW they are replacing their boltguns with a special weapon, because in order to get the special weapon they have to replace their boltgun to get it. I'm not saying this wasn't the intent. My aim is more to say that it isn't as ambiguous as people are trying to make it. People can argue that based on precedence, this is much different than other codex's all they want, but that doesn't mean it's incorrect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

Are you delibratley trying to be obtuse?

Are you? I cannot believe that anyone could honestly take your stance apart from intentionally trolling.

In any case, a twin-linked boltgun is not a boltgun, it's a twin-linked boltgun. You can't exchange it because the rules don't allow you to exchange twin-linked boltguns.

Really? Because pg. 43 of the BRB where it says "It counts as a single weapon of that type." claims otherwise.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
So, Thunderfire cannons can't fire as barrage now because it's never been that way before?

The difference is that 'barrage' isn't caused by any changes in how the 'Army List'-section works.
So unless FAQ'd, we'll assume that they really want them to have barrage.

There aren't really any comparable bikers -- Ravenwing for example simply add them because there is no requirement for them to replace it.

And how about BA or the old C:SM?
Is it so hard to believe that by putting everything in a "weapon list" they make a mistake?

You could be correct and it could be changed in a FAQ --

You know what?
I will change the topic to 'possible faults' and you stay out of this topic. Deal?
Because this really changes how it works and it's worded strangely because the wargear doesn't directly list a Melee weapon or boltgun they can replace.

simple31 wrote:
On a different note, is it possible the lack of option to take a special weapon in the command squad is a mistake. A veteran on the Reclusian Command Squad box is carrying a Plasma gun.
I only ask as Brother in my command squad is wielding a (super glued) melta-gun and he's a little worried about his future.

Thank you for getting back on topic!
You're right, the picture has him with a plasma-gun but they cannot take plasma-guns, only pistols!

So I can put a twin-linked boltgun on any model that has a boltgun and have free re-rolls? Sweet!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So I can put a twin-linked boltgun on any model that has a boltgun and have free re-rolls? Sweet!

If you want to break the rules by giving a USR to a model that can't have it, then by all means!