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if I have Tank Hunters and I have a gun that Rends, what all do I get to re-roll. My thoughts are that I would get to re-roll the chance for the '6' as that causes the Rend and you would be able to re-roll the D3 if that happened to not Penetrate or Glance the vehicle.

EX: If I shoot an Assault Cannon at a Landraider (AV 14) and get 3 hits and roll one 6. Do I get to re-roll the other 2 hits to try and get a 6? Also, on the one 6 I did roll, if on the D3 Armor Pen I get a 1 or 2 and fail to Pen or Glance do I get to re-roll that?

I think I get to re-roll both because both rolls are for armor Penetration. Though the 6 by itself can not Penetrate the vehicle, it is still consdered an Armor Penetration roll. And same with the D3. That D3 is a part of the Armor Penetration process.

Appreciate the responses!

i imagine you'd reroll both since both are considered "penning rolls" just one is an additional D3.

I remember trying to find rock hard evidence for this awhile ago, found none. i'd discuss it with the TO or your opponent beforehand.

After reading Tank Hunters its clear that you get to reroll failed armor penetration results and if you wish glancing ones. In your example Strength 6 can never penetrate armor 14 without the extra rending d3 so I would say you have to reroll all the dice again including the 6 you previously rolled since it technically did not penetrate. I think due to the timing issue that the rerolls have to be done first prior to you getting the d3 on a roll of 6 and Tank Hunters does not grant permission to keep any 6's that you rolled. Just my opinion.

Might the rule be that you'd roll the d3 for 6s, see if it Pens, and if not, reroll the original armor penetration d6 roll?

Not sure about this but, you re-roll failed penetration rolls, up to and including glancing hits (if you wish) with Tank Hunters.

The d6+d3 together constitutes a single attempt at armor penetration, despite the fact that it is two rolls. Wouldn't it follow that you would:
1. roll to hit
2. roll initial armor pen d6 (needing 6s)
3. roll d3s
4. determine after d3s rolled how many glancing and penetrating hits occurred
5. return to step 2 for failed penetration rolls, skipping this step (step 5) and go to step 6
6. roll on the vehicle damage chart

Rending defines the D3 as a "further" dice roll that is "added to the total". This is where it gets complicated, because it's part of the penetration attempt but it *IS* a separate roll after all.

So first of all, for any 6's you've rolled you need to roll the D3 first to determine whether it's penetrated, as you only get the reroll if it hasn't (and why would you want it at that point anyway, of course). Tank Hunters, meanwhile, says that you reroll "failed armour penetration rolls". Tricky one that - I would say that you must reroll the entire attempt based on that, 6 included, BUT the wording of rerolls on page 5 (where it mentions 2D6, 3D6 etc) leaves it unclear as it assumes the dice for such a roll are considered together. With Rending, this is not the case.

I would honestly believe that rending is something that is done once you have completed your rolling. Since Tank Hunters is allowing you to reroll then you are not done rolling.

The way I read the rending rule against vehicles is that when you roll a 6, a d3 is automatically added to the total. They are two separate rolls, but constitute a single armor penetration "roll." They talk about "total" and "result added to the total" meaning that the two values are combined into one, and then added to strength.

The thing with rending is that if you have rending, and you roll a 6, and you're up against something you need a d3 roll of 2 or higher (3+ on d6) to penetrate against, that 6 roll is neither a failed armor penetration roll, glancing hit, or penetrating hit. It is an unresolved armor penetration roll as you have yet to roll the further d3 that is added to the d6s total. As such, I would argue you need to roll the d3s, determine penetrating hits, and then you can choose to re-roll any non-penetrating hits resulting from that chain of events.

My thing is this, does that 6 you roll not count towards Armor Penetration? You do add the value of the D6 once you hit to the Strength of the gun.

So if I shot at a Rhino, I could reroll the D6 because on a 5 I do something and a 6 I would Pen. Against a Chimera, a 6 will Glance so I should definately reroll to try and get a 6 on the D6. Against AV 13 and 14, the D6 is added to the Strength of my gun (Assault Cannon for simplicity sake). So if I roll a D6 after hitting AV 14, I get a 4, obviously Strength 10 will not Penetrate AV 14. Do I get to reroll that 4 to try and get a 6 so then I can roll the D3?

@Dog

I understand your argument, I just don't think that the D6 and the D3 are "a single Penetration roll." I think both numbers are added to the total strength at separate times. I think both the D6 and the D3 should be able to both be re-rolled. I wish I had my BRB with me to look at the wording.

Does anyone have the wording for Rending and Armor Penetration?

Melta weapons are a similar case as they have 2 dice rolled as part of a single penetration test. How does re-rolling work for them? Do you re-roll both dice, or can you re-roll just one of them?

Answered this a couple weeks back.

The D6 and possible "further" D3 are the Armor Penetration Roll. You do get a reroll, but must reroll the D6 first and if you get another 6 you may roll a D3 for that. Nothing, and I mean nothing RAW allows you to only reroll the D3.

I believe that DogofWar1 and Zagman have it right.

Ok so I am right in assuming you re-roll both then. Sweet!

Thanks for the help.