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I was curious to get some thoughts on how much having well painted models adds to how enjoyable a game is. Now obviously playing with even basically painted miniatures verses unpainted or just primed models makes a significant difference I feel, but I'm talking about some genuine quality of painting that one has to put some serious time and effort in for even the smallest details. I watch some of these how to paint miniatures videos and realize I simply don't have the expendable time to paint at a high level. What I do get painted has all the major details painted accordingly and some fine detail where necessary but overall none of my miniatures will really impress anyone. But does that really detract from playing the game itself? Now im sure for many of you the joy of modeling and painting alone is just as fun/satisfying as playing whatever wargame it may be, but for someone just wanting to have a good time playing a game and socializing is there any shame if fielding a modestly painted army?

Nope, no shame in it at all. There are some snobs out there who will see that your army is painted, and feel the need to point out this and that. Which is fine, so long as they realize (as all players should) that they are your models and you can paint them pink, yellow, and green if you want to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxazBxjKFqU

It's depressing how nice those armies and tables are because I will probably never play a game that good looking.

As much as I lie fielding and playing against a fully painted army, I like to take my time with each of my units. So I don't mind a guy with just primed, or even so painted some unpainted models. The game is still fun and often times it can be away to start a conversation that isn't a result of the normal pissing contest some tables de-evolve into. However, just like a movie where you have one or two REALLY bad actors, sometimes fighting the "Grey Horde" can break the flow of the game and kill its spirit.

But the thing that really kills me is guys that want to field "paper" armies to test out units and builds... that makes it all just math... and I want to pretend I am not doing math...

I can only bring the PoV of a new gamer but I wouldn't care what state my or the oppositions army look like. In the end its a hobby......a pastime.......a game. However you look at it there should be no pressure. No stress.
Anyone who does let things like this get to them, really needs to step back and look at things a bit better.

So long as you can tell each mob type and there's no swap attempts, cheating, I don't see a reason it should make any different.

Personally, coming from a strong addition to online gaming. I'm looking forward to actually getting my life back together, it can be almost as demoralising as drugs. So I don't plan to go from one time sapping hobby to the next. I WILL be painting my army of which i've just purchased a vast amount of second hand models (this will take time). I'm not going to spend days bashing them out. I'd rather have a good looking paint job I can be proud of rather than a rushed sloppy team.

 thegrav wrote:
But the thing that really kills me is guys that want to field "paper" armies to test out units and builds... that makes it all just math... and I want to pretend I am not doing math...

Having not playing any official games with other hobbiests I cant comment on how this would affect me, but it sounds frustrating. Proxy models would surely be a LOT better especially if you find something the approximate size. I get the impression paper models are pointless especially when condering LoS rules.

Ziff.

Well, it's not an obligation by any means, but it's more fun to play against a painted army.

WE did our first tournament recently where there was an obligation for all models to be painted. Even if you're playing against a spam list and get splattered, somehow it's not as bad when you know the other party has spent hours preparng his heldrakes and making them look nice...

While I enjoy a game more against a painted army, my enjoyment of the game itself is more down to my opponent's behaviour.

Playing against a painted army LOOKS better, though.

I think that a lot of people forget this is a hobby, as in:
hob·by1 [hob-ee]
noun, plural hob·bies.
1.
an activity or interest pursued for pleasure or relaxation and not as a main occupation: e.g His hobbies include wargaming and voicing opinions loudly on the internet.

I thoroughly enjoy two crisply-painted duking it out over a battlefield crafted by the master artisans of polystyrene hills and plastic buildings, but hey, I have a job, my opponent probably has a job, I have a family and other commitments, probably my opponent has similar, so if I have to storm the stack of books with my horde of unpainted orks to claim the much sought-after empty dr pepper can objective then so be it, I'm not going to let that spoil my enjoyment. It really annoys me when people get all uptight about unpainted models and such, and while a bit of harmless ribbing about it is all well and good, if you're going to spend the next hour or so ragging on me for not having a fully painted army then it's going to make for an unenjoyable game.

Playing games with unpainted models or on makeshift terrain shouldn't spoil your enjoyment of the game, a fully painted army should be something you strive towards, but you shouldn't feel bad about playing with unpainted stuff.
(Remember, there is only something wrong if it stops being fun )

I can honestly say, that it can add to the enjoyment of playing the game once you get your army painted - it adds a strong sense of accomplishment, and honestly, an investment into them.

Even more, good terrain, and if both armies are painted, it really brings up the immersion and fun of the game.

Of course, these things are subjective ...and people who may have never played a game on a really nice table with painted armies won't of had the experience of it...but it is pretty cool.

Now, regarding just how well the armies are painted....I think you can have a better feeling of investment and "care" in your army...but as far as aesthetics go, just painted is a huge step up - so I would not worry too much if your painting is not yet where you eventually may want it to be.

I would say that most folk appreciate the attempt to have a painted army. If they are just modestly painted, I believe that is good enough. Obviously, the higher the detail and quality of the painted armies, the deeper the immersion. But, if all you have time is to clip spruces, and glue together models, then that's good enough.

If its a tourny event, then you should at least be bringing a decent looking army to play (unless its specific like the old Ard Boyz events).
But for local events and FLGS times its more about the game and not really the whole package.
And i don't mind paper armies. I find it rather smart to try a unit out on paper to see if it fits your play-style or tactics,or if they are even any good before spending a ton of cash on something you'll end up never using again.

Now, we did have this one guy in our local League...he's played his same tau Army for 7 or 8 years. 2 months ago someone finally called him out and told him after all this time thr least he could do was put ALL of his drones on flying bases (he typically just set them down like frisbees on the table). So sometimes you do get to a rediculous point...the same unpainted army after a year? Come on, at least prime them Marines black and call them Templars or something.

I like to see painted armies. It just makes it more fun and can add something to talk baout if you particularly like a paint job. That being said, I've fought against plenty of grey or primed hordes and had just as much fun.

This is how I see it. When you have an unpainted army going against another unpainted army, you lose a small sense of role play and fantasy that would normally be present. I mean yes, you can just think in your head of how they will really look when fighting against each other and such, but when you see models of the highest caliber fighting each other upon masterfully crafted terrain and expertly painted boards...you get a real in depth immersion in what you're doing.
Or at least I do. I like it when life (or miniature fake life) has color. When it looks bland like gears of war I tend to lose that interest in the match ever so slightly.

For example: That video of the ultramarines VS the necrons. I thought it looked amazing and I would love to play against another army that looked so good and on a board that nicely put. I seem to have a thing for color.
I think that's why my yellow ford fiesta has pink neon underglow and a sound activated synthesizer on the back window and LEDs inside the vehicle. I can't help but want more color. When I first started 40K (A few months back) I had a space marine force that consisted of:
Angry marines, Imperial fists, Black Templar, Blood angels, Dark angels, Praetors of Orpheus, Ultramarines, and more. My army was a walking, shooting rainbow.

I must have pretty colors!

If it isn't painted to a high standard, I don't field it. Period. My opponent I don't care so much about, it's their force.

painted is good ..does it have to be to a microscope standard.NO..painted does bring a bit more enjoyment to it thou ..My ORK Boyz are not painted to microscope standard or what I would consider PRO painted..I would say they pass table top by a wide margin (Looks good when I view them while standing beside the table) and thats it and it adds to the enjoyment when others do their armies to at least a table top standard..will I pick up thier models and look at them with a magnifying glass ..NO WAY ..they arnt mine will I ask if one looks good or how they got a particualr effect ..HELL YES..and then if they allow it I will look at it closer..new ideas always interest me ..after 30 year of painting and moddling from old Ral parth dnd minis to some of the new dreamforge stuff ..I like mini's and my old paintjobs that passed muster just 10 years ago are getting repainted cause I wanted to change the look and Ive gotten better at painting or want to add an effect or technique I learned from some person I was playing against

I think the army paint job needs to achieve a certain minimum level, and much more effort than that is wasted.

Super detailed paint work is fine for Golden Daemon display models, but if you want to play games, the effort would be better spent in building nice terrain pieces.

I enjoy the game better if my opponent has made an effort to paint their army. Painting is a vital part of the hobby for me, so it shows me that the person across the table is on the same page. I don't mind at all if they haven't produced a great paint job, because that takes a lot of time and practice. As it has been stated, not everyone has the time for that.

I don't mind bare plastic and/or not completed minis. I get it, not all of us are into or have the time for the painting side of the hobby. If given a choice, I would like to play against a fully painted army, but I take what I can get so as long as I can get a fun game out of it.

However...I'm iffy on proxies or poorly made "counts-as". I will NOT play against someone using empty stands or paper discs as stand-ins to units. Something about that just irks me....

There is no doubt that for the most part watching two fully painted armies on a well made table is far more entertaining than two grey tides on a coffee table (though nostalgic)

I think 3 color min with fully based is enough and from a distances looks good.

I don't mind models that are bare plastic, I myself have a lot of those. I don't even mind models with missing arms and such (I have those too...), so long as it's clear what the model is and you're consistent about it.
Fighting painted armies is always a lot more fun, to be sure, as is terrain that looks like terrain. But it doesn't bother me when nothing is painted, and no one I've met has been bothered by my unpainted armies.

_e

Pfft, don't know. I'll let you know on Friday, when my friend are planning to play our first fully painted WYSIWYG game!

 The Philosopher wrote:
I was curious to get some thoughts on how much having well painted models adds to how enjoyable a game is. Now obviously playing with even basically painted miniatures verses unpainted or just primed models makes a significant difference I feel, but I'm talking about some genuine quality of painting that one has to put some serious time and effort in for even the smallest details. I watch some of these how to paint miniatures videos and realize I simply don't have the expendable time to paint at a high level. What I do get painted has all the major details painted accordingly and some fine detail where necessary but overall none of my miniatures will really impress anyone. But does that really detract from playing the game itself? Now im sure for many of you the joy of modeling and painting alone is just as fun/satisfying as playing whatever wargame it may be, but for someone just wanting to have a good time playing a game and socializing is there any shame if fielding a modestly painted army?

You know, having painted miniatures that you yourself painted in a game is satisfying in itself, playing a game on a well made table with terrain intended for the game makes it even better. What I mean by terrain intended for the game is just not a green blanket thrown over some stacked books for hills. Then having enough terrain to actually have to move and maneuver around. Time is an issue for most folks, just set goals. I set a goal of painting a table for a local hobby shop, I enjoyed the time and always get more experience with it. I also enjoy the fact that the modular terrain can now be used and enjoyed by other gamers. While I have my own projects I would like to get done, having multiple projects gives me time to leave one to rest and then come back to it with a new perspective.

You can paint three basic colors on your minatures, and leave them until you have more time to paint them later, having more than three colors builds the depth. You can seal them and paint over later if youre concerned with damaging the work between painting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ixlar wrote:
I would say that most folk appreciate the attempt to have a painted army. If they are just modestly painted, I believe that is good enough. Obviously, the higher the detail and quality of the painted armies, the deeper the immersion. But, if all you have time is to clip spruces, and glue together models, then that's good enough.

I agree completely! Effort put forth is a good thing!

Playing someone once with a "low standard" I am fine with it.
I try for myself to have as much as possible fully painted and at least my 4 color model (main color, base, weapon, shoulders)

What I dislike is playing the same person and zero progress. Not a lick of paint added for months.

I move-on because there is just nothing to talk about in the hobby when they stopped trying.

As I am not the best painter, I don't mind if the quality I'm facing isn't great. I'm almost always adding new units to my armies, so most of the time I play with a 75% fully painted army, so unpainted doesn't bother me either.

What really gets me though is when someone shows up with a sea of grey and discredits my painting skills. That's usually when I never play that person again.

 Turalon wrote:
<snip>What really gets me though is when someone shows up with a sea of grey and discredits my painting skills. That's usually when I never play that person again.

Funny how often you run into exactly that kind of person.
They critique your paintjob.
They have nothing of their own to review and compare with.
They may be feeling defensive about not having anything painted.

Think of it as an insecure person talking.
All I had to do was laugh and point at his army and say "Let's dispense with the B.S. and play."
At the end say "I expect you will show me something worth looking at next time?"

Hypocrisy never really sits well and it is the "quality of the person" that makes for good painting and a quality game.

I am a very big on wanting my army painted when I play. Maybe I have gone too far by only playing a two games with my SM army in the last 3 years when I initially made my investment and began painting. However, work and graduate school kept me from getting around to more painting. And just recently I have gone back to painting my ultramarines. Likewise, I have a rather large Warmachine Menoth army (and an entire troll army sitting untouched in their boxes), that I have only played with a couple of times because I again refuse to play with unpainted figurines. I think that my OCD comes out in this, but as other point out, seeing another person's painted (beyond just a coat of primer) army across the table from you is fun to see. Actually, there is some initial psychology involved, because the one person that has a painted army can give the impression that s/he knows what they are doing versus some one that hasn't even primed their own. I also believe that someone playing with a painted army is more likely to play with more confidence than someone who doesn't have paint on figs.

I believe that one should take a little bit of pride in what they have managed to obtain, after all this is not an inexpensive hobby. With that being said, I would hope that more take the opportunity to play and not being shy do to lack of paint. But as one friend of mine once said - "It doesn't matter if you if you win or lose, it's how you look doing it!" And there is a lot of truth to that.

As long as its painted - fine.

If its unpainted it doesnt go on the table.

I prefer things to be painted but I understand with new players or with new units, they may not be painted.

Arguing about nitpicky bs with a player is a good way to be labeled as the "that guy" of your FLGS.

Hell I don't really care if they substitute cola cans for drop pods or books for terrain either.