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so basically.... when ghaz and makari are the only ones left... ghaz practically gains a 2++ until failed?

One can hope, because seeing ghaz with Toughness 6 makes me very sad.

Ghaz lacking Monster keyword means he will probably be able to run straight through ruins now, along side his retinue of bodyguards. So while Ghaz is "Slower" going from 7" to 5" he effectively became a lot faster, by giving no feths about ruins.

T6 is still a joke though.

But an indication that meganobz are T6 too

The fact our entire army, not just core and character gets advance and charge, and you can use a stratagem to get +2 advance and charge on top of that is great. It means much greater flexibility in the units we want to pick and can make for an interesting comeback for things such as deff dreads and Killa Kanz. Since killa kanz could never reroll charges for free, well we got nerfed and none of our units can now. But that also makes them a better choice. Units that were inherently slow and useless before no longer is.

Maybe we even see people use hunta rigs rather than Kill rigs.

Im not sure if i find ghaz underwhelming in that he has no real abilities, but over all hes an absolute beat stick because he can run through buildings and maybe even sit in transports. This would also indicate he might get +1 to his save when in a ruin? When shot at i mean.

But the idea of giving ghaz +2 advance and charge and seeing him not getting stuck having to run around buildings but is now plowing through them, is great.

He did lose some buffs for his army though, now he only buffs his own little retinue i think.

Funny how the only one of that combo that gives an aura buff is Makari.

 Grimskul wrote:
looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6

REEEEEE
In seriousness I spose it’s fine since he can join Manz so long as the whole unit will be able to fit in a bw, which if not ghaz is completely fethed with that 5” move. I’d assume they’re getting rid of that “dumb counts as 18 models” rule since he isn’t a monster anymore though.

Overall, rules preview was about what I expected. Pretty vanilla and uninspiring, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but I was hoping for a bit more spice. Also thought they were gonna show off a stratagem that allowed us to resurrect boyz like other horde armies have gotten. Stompa at least is looking good, hopefully won’t be 1k points lol.

Keeping the -1 ap choppas is nice plus with the 6” move gives me hope green tide will be more viable this edition, although the blast rule is still a pretty big deterrent against that. Losing mob rule hurts at least until we potentially get it back in the codex. Until then the ork tactics might have to lean more into being hyper offensive to compensate for being battleshocked a large portion of the game.

Forceride wrote:
You will need meganobz for gazz escort, and no longer monster.. and we also lost charge rerolls.

The buggy gun is now 1 less ap and BS5, but gains D6+6 and ignore cover.

Also waagh now last's 1 game round..

makari looks like a must take now, he lost wounds and rules FNP6.
I wonder if we will be able to transport gazz now.

It feels like a net nerf.

Agree massive nerfs
Ghaz is still slow as shat… he’s still decent at melee but will never make it.. almsot require a battlewagon and a squad of meganobs now just to reach melee..

Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..

The Dakka kannon is 3d6 still following the bad variance of rolling 3 to 18 hits as the stompa main wpn… not impressed. I really expected this to get the same treatment the guard cannons did with something like 10 or 12+d6…

I don’t know if reroll charges are gone but if they are we are screwed without some form of movement buff on a melee centric army…a strat usable on a single unit a turn that is mathematically worse then reroll charges isn’t a good replacement, but I guess is you are already dropping 700 points on a ghaz/meganob battlewagon bomb you kinda require to use this strat on them for a turn 2 or 3 charge..

Still to little info but not happy..

Honestly, I like what I see.

+ Choppas kept their AP
+ Army-wide 6" and 5+ armor almost confirmed
+ Beastsnagga rules massively improved - rerolls instead of +1, FNP instead of 6++
+ One of the best Waaagh!s we have ever had stayed as it was, minus keyword insanity.
+ No clan lock on Thrakka
+ Thrakka is just as deadly
+ The buff to his unit is insanely powerful
+ Thrakka is INFANTRY! Which means he can ride transports. Thrakka in a naut anyone?
+ Makari is now a shadow field for Thrakka
+ Dat mega choppa. I want a rematch of that stompa vs knights game now. Tankshock for 8-9 MW anyone?
+ Squig buggy has both launchas rolled into one, loses 1 shot on average, but gains range on the small launcha in return. It also gets an AP reduction but ignores cover, including the one you get from firing indirectly. Essentially the gun which broke the game once during this edition more or less stayed just as powerful, but gained quality of life
+ "Less deadliness" nerfs below average compared to other armies. We got to keep most of our good stuff, nerfs mostly to stuff we didn't care about anyways
+ Orks is never beaten works for the whole unit, take that glass cannon melee units!
o Detachment rule boring, but decent
o Considering how people are shooting tournament armies off the table, a mostly unchanged deff kannon is ok, I guess?
o 'ere we go is lost as an army rule, but came back as an extremely powerful stratagem. With free strategic reserves, this will be a PITA for our opponents. Also doubles as ramming speed replacement. Hopefully tellyporta is still a thing.
o ld7+ is not awesome (58.33% chance to pass), but better than ld6/7 in 9th.
o Dakka weapons seem to stick around as rapid fire. I'd rather have assault weapons back, thankyouverymuch.
- Snappa klaw got even worse
- Thrakka and Makari got slower
- Makari's aura seems useless


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedNoak wrote:
so basically.... when ghaz and makari are the only ones left... ghaz practically gains a 2++ until failed?

The shadowfield has been a snotling in a snow globe all along.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
looks like Jidmah got his wish, Ghazzy is only T6

REEEEEE
In seriousness I spose it’s fine since he can join Manz so long as the whole unit will be able to fit in a bw, which if not ghaz is completely fethed with that 5” move. I’d assume they’re getting rid of that “dumb counts as 18 models” rule since he isn’t a monster anymore though.

It might hint at MANz getting back to 5" movement as well. You can now outrun a deathguard terminator

Small correction. Tank shock is max 6mw

gungo wrote:
Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..

The 5++ will last two turns just like before, but you can now use it to defend yourself when not going first.
The second stage with 6++ went away, but we got army-wide +1 to armor in return and I rarely felt like it was game changing anyways.


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tneva82 wrote:
Small correction. Tank shock is max 6mw

Bummer. But I guess the use of hitting something for some MW before dealing 30+ damage to it are definitely limited

Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…

Only real positive combo I see is dread Waagh might actually be decent now especially since Waagh isn’t warboss locked… orks is never beaten is much better on those expensive melee that never had a chance to swing in combat units.

Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..

gungo wrote:


Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..

No, but if it helps the rumor at all the Weird boy also went to a 5+ and I believe he just had a 6+ before. Granted it's only two units so it's way too early to call, but it could be a possibility.

RedNoak wrote:
T6 is still a joke though.

But an indication that meganobz are T6 too

Meganobz at T6 would be quite nice.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

gungo wrote:


Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..

No, but if it helps the rumor at all the Weird boy also went to a 5+ and I believe he just had a 6+ before. Granted it's only two units so it's way too early to call, but it could be a possibility.

I think it's reasonable to assume that either a 5+ save has become standard or is at the very least now present in more units than just characters, so we have tiered units of armour saves rather than the 6+ or 4+ binary we currently have between Nob-sized and non-Nob infantry units. So specialist units like tankbustas, burna boyz, and lootas should all have that baseline presumably. If we do have a 6+, I presume it would really only remain on things like regular Ork boyz, Stormboyz, and Gretchin.

Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.

Now you have move 5 (sure thats slower) but you can actually just plow through walls. You dont have to waste movement going from behind a wall, out in to the open, then move up. You now sit behind a wall obscurred and hidden, and plow through it without having to go around the wall. You also cant be bottlenecked anymore and cant really be blocked from going where you want to.

While i would love for him to retain move 7, i dont really mind it now that he has infantry keyword. I see him as being faster now, not slower.

A couple squads of beastsnaggas near makaris aura for the lethal hits would make them actually pretty decent against vehicles with the re roll hits to fish for 6’s.

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
Waagh only 1 turn is brutal.. that 5++ invul was the main reason orks survived as much as they did..

The 5++ will last two turns just like before, but you can now use it to defend yourself when not going first.
The second stage with 6++ went away, but we got army-wide +1 to armor in return and I rarely felt like it was game changing anyways.


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tneva82 wrote:
Small correction. Tank shock is max 6mw

Bummer. But I guess the use of hitting something for some MW before dealing 30+ damage to it are definitely limited

Small correction, second turn of waagh also provided +1a +1S. That will be missed more than the 6++


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Ghaz being T6 is somehow strange given the size of the model. A custodes is actually tougher? Wtf

Ghaz looks good, but underwhelming compared to the likes of Gorillaman. Hopefully he's a fair amount cheaper as he's only really a beatstick.

:EDIT:

Makari is T6

Beardedragon wrote:
Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.

Have we seen confirmation teleporting through walls is still a thing? Haven't seen yet. Leak didn't cover movement/terrain rule. Just gave note in charge move ability to ignore short terrain.

3 x Squigbuggy with Mek giving them +1 to hit !!!

This big issue with the wartrike is the bloody huge base. Warboss on Warbike was great because of his slim base

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.

Have we seen confirmation teleporting through walls is still a thing? Haven't seen yet. Leak didn't cover movement/terrain rule. Just gave note in charge move ability to ignore short terrain.

we have not, but i highly doubt that all ruins suddenly dont allow infantry to pass through them. What we HAVE seen from terrain features, havent really changed a lot from their original design.

Beardedragon wrote:
Why does people say Ghaz is slow? He had move 7 before but HAD to go through corridors, meaning he would often waste at much movement just going to where he was. With the lack of a sweep profile, he also couldnt go through even 10 guardsmen blocking him (unless he had lucky exploding sixes) he could thus also be bottlenecked. And lets not forget you never wanted ghaz to just sit out in the open (at least not in the opening stages of your games) so you actually did use line of sight.

Now you have move 5 (sure thats slower) but you can actually just plow through walls. You dont have to waste movement going from behind a wall, out in to the open, then move up. You now sit behind a wall obscurred and hidden, and plow through it without having to go around the wall. You also cant be bottlenecked anymore and cant really be blocked from going where you want to.

While i would love for him to retain move 7, i dont really mind it now that he has infantry keyword. I see him as being faster now, not slower.

First off ghaz was slow before even at 7in movement with reroll charges and advance and charge.. that was always his main issue..his durability was ok and his melee was great.

5 movement doesn’t make him faster you are pretty much required to put him and his unit in a battlewagon now just to get him safe and get him up the board. It will take him minimum 2 turns just to be in range of an objective in no man’s land… unless someone’s looking to get into combat with ghaz he’s pretty much avoidable now… and much easier to just shoot off the board… if you need proof of this just compare ghaz in 10th Ed to manz in 9th. They have essentially the same movement profile and we’re only really useful as MAN missiles in a trukk. Now this requires ghaz, makari and a unit of meganobs so pretty much requires a battlewagon.. it’s a lot of points for a dedicated melee unit.. things might be a little better if we get a tellyporta strat but it’s still going to be alot of points. Which has a huge target on its back, and is an easy target to shot as they try to walk across the board.

Although I agree with you monster keyword was bad but it was more an annoyance as I tried to plod across the board just to get where I wanted to go before.

Edit: do we know of klan rules still exist? Or is it all army wide rules and detachment rules?

Yes Ghaz was slow before no doubt about it. But he werent made more fast by me, having to keep him far enough behind line of sight walls that i would waste at least 3 inches moving out before i could move up.

Now i can keep him up against a wall, and simply run out through the wall, saving me a lot of movement.

Okay so one question.

On a waagh phase with the faction trait giving sustained hits and makari giving lethal hits does every 6 to hit give you 2 auto wounds to units within 12? Cause that's a lot of choppa to the face if so. And once you call your waaagh you just put anything with an AP value on makari. He's a bullet magnet after that imo.

And another thing that pops into mind. A leader joins a unit then the unit jumps into a vehicle with firing points. Does that mean an embarked unit can finally be affected by leaders? My imagination is saying flashgits with baddruck in something then getting buffed by a mek for 1+ to hit on the whole lot. Though I don't know all the workybits yet of course.

Unless it changes, Lethal and Sustained would get you one wound and one hit.
Not two wounds.

That's fair enough. I sort of thought that a critical hit that procs an additional hit would have that extra hit be considered a 6. If that makes sense.

But it would be a bit cheeky to double dip like that.

Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.

Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs.
Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.

Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs.
Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.

Agreed. The dakka side of things has been pretty neglected and it's weird given that shoota boyz for a while back in 5th-7th were seen as the superior choice for a while over choppa boyz. Ork shooting really got lost in the arms race and barring a few exceptions when things were priced very cheaply (mek gunz spam, flyer spam when it was allowed), we've had to rely on skewing to melee rush lists and lots of infantry shooting units like lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz have been left out in the cold to basically be awkwardly unable to take advantage of either WAAAGH!'s we've been given.

Some information is missing. We know that little meks give a good buff to shooting. 1+ to hit potentially on that stompa's deffkannon is a rather nice boost.

Does Baddrukk give a boost? Will the mekboy workshop actually be useful? What about big meks? Will Wortsnagga actually buff something besides basic runts? Is there a detachment rule that focuses on dakka?

So many questions regarding just dakka. But as Bricky said, it woulda been nice if they had shown us the rules for Rokkits not the Deffkannon.

Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.

- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.

Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that

Man, so much salt about almost nothing.

gungo wrote:
Im usually on point with you jidmah but I’m not seeing the combos on this..
Ghaz unless he’s super cheap is going to be prohibitively expensive for a unit that only buffs 1 unit of meganobs..is to slow to make it in combat… practically requires a unit of mega nobs and a battlewagon.. and without reroll charges can be an very expensive whiff.. while the +2 move and charge strat is nice.. Strats are only for a single unit a turn and is a worse replacement for reroll charges…

The replacement for 'ere we go is an army-wide +1" to movement for infantry.
Yes, I would have preferred keeping 'ere we go, but there is no reason to be bummed out over getting +1" instead.

Edit-did the article say we have army wide 5+ because I can’t assume based on the beastsnagga unit that’s already a pushed unit that it means all orks are 5+ army wide..

Beastsnaggas and weirdboy both have 5+ armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
I think it's reasonable to assume that either a 5+ save has become standard or is at the very least now present in more units than just characters, so we have tiered units of armour saves rather than the 6+ or 4+ binary we currently have between Nob-sized and non-Nob infantry units. So specialist units like tankbustas, burna boyz, and lootas should all have that baseline presumably. If we do have a 6+, I presume it would really only remain on things like regular Ork boyz, Stormboyz, and Gretchin.

Why would stormboyz and boyz have different save than a weirdboy or beast snaggas? Both are pretty much naked, while boyz and stomboyz wear actual armor, helmets, steel jaws, etc.


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Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
Small correction, second turn of waagh also provided +1a +1S. That will be missed more than the 6++

Absolutely, but gungo wasn't talking about that.

I reserve my judgement on that until I see what our support characters can do.

Ghaz being T6 is somehow strange given the size of the model. A custodes is actually tougher? Wtf

Please read this:



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 Tomsug wrote:
3 x Squigbuggy with Mek giving them +1 to hit !!!

I'm fairly sure buggy squadrons will be gone. There is zero reason to keep them without battle roles, and GW does not want us to run more than 3 of each buggy anyways.

Unless meks are prohibitively expensive, they will be a great asset to any shooting army, whether they buff buggies, mek guns, walkers or a transport full of lootas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
5 movement doesn’t make him faster you are pretty much required to put him and his unit in a battlewagon now just to get him safe and get him up the board. It will take him minimum 2 turns just to be in range of an objective in no man’s land… unless someone’s looking to get into combat with ghaz he’s pretty much avoidable now… and much easier to just shoot off the board… if you need proof of this just compare ghaz in 10th Ed to manz in 9th. They have essentially the same movement profile and we’re only really useful as MAN missiles in a trukk. Now this requires ghaz, makari and a unit of meganobs so pretty much requires a battlewagon..

There still is the chance that Ghaz can join other units (beast snaggas with that unit buff would be dope), and in 5th we already had Ghaz riding a wagon by himself as a tournament-viable strategy, and with his trusty shadowfield banner carrier it might be again. It really heavily depends on his points. I can see that profile being as cheap as 200 points now.

Edit: do we know of klan rules still exist? Or is it all army wide rules and detachment rules?

No more paint enforced army rules.
Waaagh! Tribe is goff, and we will most likely see "Speed Freeks", "Sneaky Gitz", "Feral Boyz", "Lucky Gitz", "Flashy Gitz" with the codex. Or maybe they get creative and we get "Dread mob", "speed mob", "Deff Wing", "Dakka Waaagh!" and other traditional archtypes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
And another thing that pops into mind. A leader joins a unit then the unit jumps into a vehicle with firing points. Does that mean an embarked unit can finally be affected by leaders? My imagination is saying flashgits with baddruck in something then getting buffed by a mek for 1+ to hit on the whole lot. Though I don't know all the workybits yet of course.

[Firing deck X] is the new open topped ability. It works in a way that the transport "gains" the weapons used by its passengers, so a battlewagon with [Firing Deck 22] that carries Badrukk and 10 flash gits would gains 10 Snazzguns and Da Rippa and would be able to shoot them. These guns would not be affected by any buff Bardukk provides to his unit, but it will be affected by buffs the battlewagon has - like the previewed mek ability.


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 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Main thing that annoys me about that preview is basically all our buffs are melee focused now. Army wide Goff melee, what bout shootin? Nah, no shootin' help.
So once again half the codex will be meh at best? because the waaagh! is a melee, charge, and invul boost across the board rather than bonus AP and shots for dakka/heavy weapons.

Now, this is just the index and i believe orks are one of the earlier codexes coming out so that might not be a long suffrage to deal with. But it still annoys me when GW constantly ignores half the damn codex with their army/relic/character buffs.
Its the whole reason walkers arent that great in the current book...nothing helps them and they arent awesome on their own. Dont get me wrong, our melee is going to be rude which is awesome, but im a Badmoonz i like my big guns and explosive weaponry and right now i see absolutely nothing for ork shooting, just a lot of melee.

Agreed. The dakka side of things has been pretty neglected and it's weird given that shoota boyz for a while back in 5th-7th were seen as the superior choice for a while over choppa boyz. Ork shooting really got lost in the arms race and barring a few exceptions when things were priced very cheaply (mek gunz spam, flyer spam when it was allowed), we've had to rely on skewing to melee rush lists and lots of infantry shooting units like lootas, tankbustas and flash gitz have been left out in the cold to basically be awkwardly unable to take advantage of either WAAAGH!'s we've been given.

All of the relevant ork shooting we have seen so far pretty much stayed the same, while almost everyone but knights got medium to big nerfs to it.
We've also seen the mek and the firing deck buff to battlewagons, and the 5++ part of the Waaagh! is very useful to both speedwaaaghs and dread mobs even now. It's a free KFF for our whole army - which was a mandatory part of any vehicle lists all the way back to 4th.
And let's not forget that all or vehicle will be jumping up to at least T8/T9 on top of that.

Like every edition before, I feel like what will make or breake ork shooting is the profile of the rokkit. It's just that important to orks.


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 Tomsug wrote:
- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)

Engagement range is 1" horizontally, 5" vertically. The page surfaced shortly after the first two leaks, but terrain might influence that though.