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Am I handicapping myself by bringing allies to an allies-allowed tournament?

Yes you are handicapping yourself. I myself can not bring myself to bring allies to any game, except CSM and Daemons because that combo was established many editions ago. I just can't play with allies at all. I feel it has fast tracked the game to ruin. In my mind.

Grey Knights and Demons make perfect allies

What kind of question is that.

You are handicapping yourself because you can't choose the best units from either codex and abuse that fact. I myself won't run DE with my Eldar as it is completely unfluffy and nor will I put some tau with my eldar either. Fluffy allies works, but its when you go to the tournament scene and you have Necrons and CSM together against you, you want to pack up and go home.
That's just my opinion however, unbalancing the game isn't very fun.

EDIT: You are handicapping yourself if you DON'T bring allies.

Filthy Sanchez wrote:
Am I handicapping myself by bringing allies to an allies-allowed tournament?

Depends on the points value. 1500 and below, not really. 1750 and up, probably.

EDIT: Whoops, thought you were saying NOT bringing allies. Bringing allies is a handicap if it makes your list inefficient. This is more common at low points values but possible at high ones. Otherwise, there's little downside to doing so.

Some armies do great things with allies, some have no allies or nothing worth using.

It depends...

Am I reading this correctly? Are people really saying that allies are a handicap if they are unfluffy? Reality check guys, fluff doesn't actually influence power level of the game.

There are a lot of unfluffy combinations, but 40k is basically Kobra Kai Sweep the Leg these days, so that should not be a concern. As to whether you are hurting yourself by not taking them, that's open to debate and largely depends on things like your local meta and/or army codex.

I think Tau, Eldar, Guard, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Necrons all work just fine without any allies, though all can be made stronger in certain ways by including them. Their in book units, however, are more than enough to cover all of the bases. Sometimes the addition of an ally can actually dilute the power of the army (Markerlights, Desperate Ally Rolls) from its raw potential as a stand alone. Guard and Wolves do seem to become exponentially stronger by shoving them together, though I think Tau/Dar is not massively better than either army on its own. That said, the little edge they gain in these instances is largely what seems to separate them into the top brackets of events like Nova or Adepticon.

I think that Dark Angels, Orks, Daemons, Vanilla Marines, and Sisters of Battle can work without allies, but really need a little help in areas to close the gaps in areas. Adding an ally to these armies always seems to just really power them up massively from their mono army versions. In particular, just about any MEQ army immediately gets better by tucking either a Guard Blob or Eldar Bike spam into it and Sisters and Vanilla SMs really cover each other very well.

Blood Angels, Chaos, Dark Eldar, and Nids all really need the help, though of course Nids cannot get it. These are armies with really serious holes, either fragility of scoring units (Nids, DE) or serious problems getting enough bodies on the table (BA, CSM) without an outside ally book helping out.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Am I reading this correctly? Are people really saying that allies are a handicap if they are unfluffy? Reality check guys, fluff doesn't actually influence power level of the game.

Yeah, Godls,-M, I'm with you.

Filthy Sanchez, I have no idea what handicapping you're talking about. Nor do I understand most of the other posters casting aspersions on the Allies rule (Phazael's reply makes sense, and he is a regular tourney attendee, so I know that *he* knows what he's talking about. And I've met him in RL. Nice guy. ).

Will having Allies make your list weaker? No-way. Need some h2h with your Tau? Add any power armor or orks. Tau need Psykers? PSy defense? Rune Priest.

Will having Allies earn you the scorn of the non-competitive crowd? I guess so, as evidence of the posts above indicate (I guess?).

*I* have attended RTTs regularly, for a couple years now. In 5th people played what they liked and what the 'Net said was good and everything codex legal. They still do.

Allies: Allies make the game more complex and fun, because instead of only bringing one army, I can bring two smaller ones! Allies also (as someone else said in another thread) allow for a cheaper army money-wise. Two Battle-Force boxes ought to get you to nearly 1500 points, without a lot of smaller blister pack units.

I run Orks and Space wolves cause I like the models. And I have my fluffy reason for it working, they were fighting, your army shwed up, now they want to kill you for interupting the fight.

Seems legit.Allies allows for some fun and some Dbag lists. Im sure bringing them doesnt handicap you as Ive seen them win many a tournament.

Allies neither handicap you nor do they ensure victory. If you have experience with your chosen armies, and tactical skill in playing them, you should do fine.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
You are handicapping yourself because you can't choose the best units from either codex and abuse that fact. I myself won't run DE with my Eldar as it is completely unfluffy and nor will I put some tau with my eldar either. Fluffy allies works, but its when you go to the tournament scene and you have Necrons and CSM together against you, you want to pack up and go home.
That's just my opinion however, unbalancing the game isn't very fun.

Sir, you are WRONG! WrongWrongWrongWrong, sir!

I waggle my Codex: DE in your face, the jury's chests and the judge's nose! Let Phil Kelly's words ring forth!

Citation: Page 23, An Unexpected Ally
The sicky, BDSM, elves showed up to help the Iyanden squash some orks, after a narrow win over the 'Nids. "When asked by Iyanden's Council of Seers as to why they intervened, the Dark Eldar reply that they find Iyanden's angst-rideen forays into the world of necromancy extrememly entertaining."

Bo-YA! Booyakasha!

UN- Fluffy indeed!

Brothererekose wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
You are handicapping yourself because you can't choose the best units from either codex and abuse that fact. I myself won't run DE with my Eldar as it is completely unfluffy and nor will I put some tau with my eldar either. Fluffy allies works, but its when you go to the tournament scene and you have Necrons and CSM together against you, you want to pack up and go home.
That's just my opinion however, unbalancing the game isn't very fun.

Sir, you are WRONG! WrongWrongWrongWrong, sir!

I waggle my Codex: DE in your face, the jury's chests and the judge's nose! Let Phil Kelly's words ring forth!

Citation: Page 23, An Unexpected Ally
The sicky, BDSM, elves showed up to help the Iyanden squash some orks, after a narrow win over the 'Nids. "When asked by Iyanden's Council of Seers as to why they intervened, the Dark Eldar reply that they find Iyanden's angst-rideen forays into the world of necromancy extrememly entertaining."

Bo-YA! Booyakasha!

UN- Fluffy indeed!

There are so many instances in the fluff where sides ally with one another. I find it laughable that the fluffy players are so against allies, the only time in the fluff I find there being zero fluff support for non-imperial allies is the Horus Heresy series. Even then Eldrad speaks to Fulgrim about knowing the Emperor and even knowing his name.

On topic unless you are playing one of the weaker armies and need gaps filled you aren't handicapping yourself by not using allies. Then again you aren't handicapping yourself by bringing them at anything over 1500 either. Personally I don't use allies that often. In tournaments, and BrotherErekose can attest to this I run pure lists. Cronair, FMC Nurgle Daemons, CSM Maulerfiend and Spawn rush. The only time I have considered allies really was at 2k or with the new SM codex because Salamanders make excellent allies to just about all the other chapters, and I love me some Salamanders.

Jimsolo wrote:Allies neither handicap you nor do they ensure victory. If you have experience with your chosen armies, and tactical skill in playing them, you should do fine.

I couldn't agree more.

If you look at the last 5 major gt's (nova, killadelphia,wargames con, adeptacon, and colonial) look at the army combinations

Nova= tau/ tau for the open and eldar /tau for the invit
Wargames con = Necrons/ orks
Killadelphia= tau
Adeptacon= Necrons/ GK
Colonial= GK

So the last 5 major gts its a 3/2 split allies and no allies. Yes some armies need allies more then others, but to say you need allies to win, or that you are at a disadvantage with out them is simply incorrect.

I don't have problems with allies per se...but I DO have a problem with which allies are considered "battle brothers".
Eldar and Dark Eldar should be allies of convenience...
Necrons and Grey Knights should be desperate allies...
Black Templars and SOB should be battle brothers..

The list goes on.

There are so many instances where the allied chart makes no god damn sense based on fluff.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I don't have problems with allies per se...but I DO have a problem with which allies are considered "battle brothers".
Eldar and Dark Eldar should be allies of convenience...
Necrons and Grey Knights should be desperate allies...
Black Templars and SOB should be battle brothers..

The list goes on.

There are so many instances where the allied chart makes no god damn sense based on fluff.

That, I can agree with. Except the DE/Eldar...

The ally chart in the rulebook doesn't make much sense to me either. Oh well, them the rules so be it.

Although I play one of the armies that most benefits from taking allies (SoB), I still refuse to take allies as a matter of principle. I don't dislike the idea of allies in 40k, but I do take issue with GW's implementation of it. I don't mind seeing odd combinations on the table across from me, but I will only run "pure" lists myself. It is somewhat a handicap compared to allied lists that take the best from two codexes and runs them together.

Every time someone starts another thread about Allies, a baby Ripper cries.

You're not handicapping yourself if the allies detachment geniunely adds something that you didn't have before or couldn't have got cheaper in your own Codex.

E.g taking a IG Vendetta allied detachment with a DA primary detachment is a good idea because it gives you flyers/AA that don't suck and reliable anti-MC/AT that isn't very expensive.

GW has been doing a great job disrespecting established fluff for a number of years now. Can't really blame players for not giving a crap any more.

Allies facilitate power gaming to be sure, but it also sells models, and we all know that that trumps all...

The title and op make this very hard to understand. You should edit that so everyone understands wtf you are asking. Also, anything other than daemon/csm, or imperium-based allies is super lame.

Yeah, I think that the thread is not really on the same topic that the OP originally wanted. I believe they left out a couple of critical "not"s in their post.

Based on the subject, I think the original topic of the thread is intended to be:

Original Poster's Mind wrote:"Am I handicapping myself by not bringing allies when others are allowed to do so?"