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Personally I would like to see night lords. Just like the lore and they have some specialties that can easily be put into the game; night vision, devices to burst ear drums (doom siren?). Maybe even make raptors troops?

So what does dakka think? What do you want to see and how can they do it?

Codex batman.

Night Lords could be cool, army-wide "Fear" (not super useful, but fluffy), raptors as troops, etc.

Hmm I wouldn't mind a different approach to unlocking troops. Rather than this supplement making X troops I'd like to see 1 squad of raptors and 1 squad of bikes able to be taken as troops.

It isn't exactly fluff to see a night lords army of 30 raptors on the field. However, 2 CSM squads, 1 raptor squad and 1 bike squad would be fluffy and encourage diverse lists. You could always add more raptors, but they just wouldn't score.

Army wide fear would also be a fluffy plus.

 juraigamer wrote:
Codex batman.

+1 for batman

Adjusting prices or making units actually worth their price would be a good start.

Unless Supplement: Thousand Sons suddenly makes Lore of Tzeentch and Rubric Marines worth their cost it aint gonna do well.

Like how for example Black Legion only made the codex as a whole worse (with exception of cultists and heldrake ally, thank you GW...)

I'd simply like to see Codex:Legion rather than the current Codex:Renegade Marines.

Daemon Prince Primarch options for Apoc Games. We already have Gargantuan creatures on small bases, so why not these guys too?

Word Bearers would probably allow more than one Dark Apostle in one HQ slot. And something fun to do with cultists (Human wave attack!). Maybe also finally allow the Apostle to have Terminator armor.

Angry Marines

They're loyalist.

 Bobthehero wrote:
They're loyalist.

EXTREMELY Loyalist. To claim otherwise is Extra Heretical and worth a Double BLAM-ing.

From what I understand, Alpha Legion is the next CSM Supplement. There was some goatboy post about it, expected to arrive in January.

To understand what to expect a new Chaos Codex might actually look like, it might be usefult to consider what we actually got with the BL supplement. I know a lot of people have dismissed it, but I play BL and find it changes the game quite a bit. I expect an AL supplement is going to do something similar, but in it's own way.

Here's what I mean. My lists are built around a CL loaded out with 4 artefacts, to the point where he's a 300+ point unit. For that, I get a model who can only be wounded on a roll of a 2, has eternal warrior, has a single-use large blast that kills AV14 very efficiently from anywhere on the board, and can take on any infantry unit in the game. I put him on a bike or give him a jump pack for mobility. The only wounds he takes is from his daemon weapon.

So the BL supplement gives us a tank that outperforms a Daemon Prince on the battlefield for around the same points. Sure he costs a lot, but he dishes out a lot of damage without going down. He's a huge distraction too, opponents pour a ton of shots into him hoping for a bad roll that never comes fast enough. In cc, the Spineshiver Blade allows him to hit first. I can usually count on him to snipe a tank in the first round.

This changes the meta. This unit neuters shooting units and makes assault something to dread. He doesn't ever give up Slay the Warlord but does amass a lot of VPs on his own - typically 4 (one for blasting away a tank, 2 for breaking a couple units, 1 for moving into my opponent's deployment zone). 4 VPs is huge in this game, getting them from a single unit is something that affects the mechanics.

Next, I get Flamer Chosen, usually 8 - 10 with 4 flamers, MoN and a Rhino. They're not cheap, but what I get for that is a unit that's hard to kill with a ton of firepower that ignores cover. I move them up the board flat out the first turn and disembark the Chosen 6 inches ahead of the Rhino the second turn. Opponents can't really charge them with all the flamers, and the increased toughness lets them withstand a lot of shots. Even when they do get charged, they have grenades and extra attacks to deal with most comers.

So the BL supplement gives us a scoring unit that can't really be charged. While this is huge for objective camping, I really try to use these guys as a shield for my Noise Marines with their sonic weapons (which ignore cover saves). There's a synergy there you don't get with other unit combos in C:CSM. The Chosen act as kind of a shield and the Noise Marines dish out a ton of shots each round.

In terms of game mechanics, this combo gives me control over where things are on the board and the ability to disrupt an attack. Since the Flamer Chosen are exceptionally hard to charge, the only good response is usually for opponents to move their units backwards. This leaves other units stranded and makes them easier to pick off. Sure, they are short range and can be avoided, but eventually everyone runs out of table and you don't get victory points for being idle. Plus there's a CL running around in your backfield tearing everything up.

Next, I get either bikers or Noise Marines, depending on whether I want to shoot everything up or charge the rest of the board. With Bikers, I have a champion who can take challenges in place of my lord. Have been in a few situations where the Champion lost the challenge but, in the meantime, the opponent lost the rest of his unit. With NMs, they are very good at marching behind Flamer Chosen, like I said, and they are also good a covering anything trying to come up from the rear. If I am taking NMs, I usually put a MoS on the CL so they are scoring units.

So the BL supplement changes the way you build armies. This doesn't look like most of the popular builds, there's usually no reason to get a Heldrake and it only needs heavy support at 1,500 points and up. What you get instead is a small force that's really good at disrupting enemy attacks and making opponents pay for getting too close. Eldar are good against it, like they are against most Chaos armies, but it's hard for them to win on VPs alone. When I only have 5 units on the board, one of them is almost impossible to kill and scores 3 or 4 VPs on his own... that's different.

Anyways, I would expect the next supplement to work something like this. They are trying to tinker with game mechanics in a way that creates a new playstyle.

Here's what I mean. My lists are built around a CL loaded out with 4 artefacts, to the point where he's a 300+ point unit. For that, I get a model who can only be wounded on a roll of a 2, has eternal warrior, has a single-use large blast that kills AV14 very efficiently from anywhere on the board, and can take on any infantry unit in the game. I put him on a bike or give him a jump pack for mobility. The only wounds he takes is from his daemon weapon.

You realize that's Illegal right. You can only replace one weapon with an artifact.

Next, I get Flamer Chosen, usually 8 - 10 with 4 flamers, MoN and a Rhino. They're not cheap, but what I get for that is a unit that's hard to kill with a ton of firepower that ignores cover. I move them up the board flat out the first turn and disembark the Chosen 6 inches ahead of the Rhino the second turn. Opponents can't really charge them with all the flamers, and the increased toughness lets them withstand a lot of shots. Even when they do get charged, they have grenades and extra attacks to deal with most comers.

That's so horribly expensive and weak, not to mention you won't have defensive plague grenades because you can only get those on HQ and Plague Marines. You'd be better off with flamer plague marines!

You'll be killed by most common things in the game, wave serpants, heldrakes, not to mention the rhino will just be shot off turn one so you'll be footslogging it...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

You realize that's Illegal right. You can only replace one weapon with an artifact.

Hrm. Looking at the Codex, I see your point. No one has challenged me on it, but yeah, that's probably not right.

The way I read that, it's replacing one weapon with one artefact. The CL carries 2 weapons, so only 2 artefacts.

Still, the Skull and Blade are pretty potent. MoT + Sigil of Corruption still give him a 3+ invulnerable save with eternal warrior, all I would be losing is re-roll on 1s and the big bomb blast, which would be put on another character. He's still a tank.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

That's so horribly expensive and weak, not to mention you won't have defensive plague grenades because you can only get those on HQ and Plague Marines. You'd be better off with flamer plague marines!

You'll be killed by most common things in the game, wave serpants, heldrakes, not to mention the rhino will just be shot off turn one so you'll be footslogging it...

They're not as weak as you would think. The grenades don't matter as much because of the flamers, people usually choose to stand and shoot or retreat instead of charge them.

They're not as weak as you would think. The grenades don't matter as much because of the flamers, people usually choose to stand and shoot or retreat instead of charge them.

Yeah, but in most cases in this meta you'll be dying to simple ignores cover AP3. Or just be shot down, I mean it's only 23+ points of bolter/flamer shooting, you'll be making that back easy enough just by killing it.

Still, the Skull and Blade are pretty potent. MoT + Sigil of Corruption still give him a 3+ invulnerable save with eternal warrior, all I would be losing is re-roll on 1s and the big bomb blast, which would be put on another character. He's still a tank.

According to YMDC now you'll be fighting that, as the wording is the exact same as in C:SM and people are trying to argue that you can only take one period.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Yeah, but in most cases in this meta you'll be dying to simple ignores cover AP3. Or just be shot down, I mean it's only 23+ points of bolter/flamer shooting, you'll be making that back easy enough just by killing it.

Good points.

But understand what I am saying here. I am not really arguing the quality of the list so much as saying the BL supplement makes lists like this possible. I think this is what supplements will actually be like, and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

4 flamers in a T5 scoring unit is not something you get in the basic Codex and the supplement screws with the mechanics of the game a bit. I mean, most things can't really assault them b/c of overwatch, and (at T5) it's not like they are going down in a single round of shooting. Sure, they are not impossible to beat, but what does happen is they tie up units in new ways. You push forward with these guys and most units have to move back, then there's this CL coming at them from the rear and havoc ensues. Pair them up with a squad of Noise Marines and it gets very hard to fight them.

According to YMDC now you'll be fighting that, as the wording is the exact same as in C:SM and people are trying to argue that you can only take one period.

Loyalist scum and their rules lawyers! I don't understand that interpretation and would talk with my opponent about it.

When I play, I bring a bunch of models that I can run under different lists. If someone has a problem with me using 2 artefacts, it's not that big a deal and I can play another army.

It's just that I like using the BL supplement to run smaller armies centered around an overpowered CL and an impenetrable wall of veterans. It feels more like Chaos and there's different ways to win games with this army than with the standard Codex.

Word Bearers would probably allow more than one Dark Apostle in one HQ slot. And something fun to do with cultists (Human wave attack!). Maybe also finally allow the Apostle to have Terminator armor.

I would like a Word Bearers supplement just so they can make Dark Apostles not suck anymore. In the WB books, DAs are awe inspiring towers of raw power. They go to battle on demonic mounts wreathed in other demons and swirling in chaotic energy. They are like what would happen if you combined a Lord, Sorcerer, and Chaplain all in one package. The Apostle from the codex is laughably bad and I can't even find much reason to take him in fluffy games. Other things that supplement could do:

Followers of Karallos:
A trait you would buy as an upgrade to cultist squads that would allow them to be posessed (replaced by) a squad of demons during the game.
Demonic Favor:
Ability to take troops and fast attack selections from the demons codex as though they were part of the same codex
Gal Vorbak:
Basically just posessed CSM that don't suck
Some new spells would be cool
Ability to mark and bless vehicles
Dark Apostle possibly buying an upgrade that would allow you to buy untis from the IG book similar to the Demonic Favor trait from above

Some things like that could make a pretty cool book I think.

p8ntba1141ife wrote:
Personally I would like to see night lords. Just like the lore and they have some specialties that can easily be put into the game; night vision, devices to burst ear drums (doom siren?). Maybe even make raptors troops?

So what does dakka think? What do you want to see and how can they do it?

Black Legion could have been saved if they had bothered to balance the restrictions with buffs.

Taking VotLW on ALL your models is a pain. It eats up a lot of points that could otherwise go to other things and makes many units just too expensive. A lot of units aren't going to use any benefit to VotLW.
The BL supplement should have made you take VotLW on all models, but given you a 1 point discount on each model. So CSM get it for free, and chosen get it for 1 point.

The mono god legions could also follow this. Giving you a discount on marks. So for world eaters, everyone has to have MoK, but you get a 1 point discount on it. So cultists get it for free, CSM for 1 point, Warp Talons for 3 points.

The WS5 BS5 termintors are a terrible idea. CSM terminators are only used for Termincide anyway, so who is going to pay a bunch of points to make them more expensive but little better. If it doesnt make them fearless, let more of them fit in a land raider or make them much killier what is the point?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


You realize that's Illegal right. You can only replace one weapon with an artifact.

I thought the BL supplements wording was different from that of normal CSM and SM wording regarding artefacts

I want a Thousand Sons supplement. Here is what I want:
- Improve the Tzeentch psychic powers.
- Have Tzeentch-only options that aren't artefacts.
- Make Tzeentch psykers better than other psykers, or at least have some inherent benefit to dedicating themselves to the God of Sorcery.
- Make MoT give a 5++ as standard again. That did at least make it useful (to me at least) last codex.
- Get rid of Slow and Purposeful on Thousand Sons. No Overwatch on a unit dedicated to shooting? feth off.
- Give the Aspiring Sorceror some options.
- Get rid of Champion of Chaos on Tzeentch units. Seriously.
- Rubric Terminators.

Basically, a Thousand Sons supplement needs to rewrite almost all of the Tzeentch related stuff in the codex to be of any use.

 chillis wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


You realize that's Illegal right. You can only replace one weapon with an artifact.

I thought the BL supplements wording was different from that of normal CSM and SM wording regarding artefacts

Actually it might be, I havn't looked at my copy in a while.

I would like for them to do more with 1000 sons. That's always been a rich chapter that I would like to see more on the table, but the rules for them are just horrible.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I would like for them to do more with 1000 sons. That's always been a rich chapter that I would like to see more on the table, but the rules for them are just horrible.

Supplement Thousand Sons: Gives them back Strength 4 and lower immunity and 2 wounds.

If there was a Nurgle/death guard supplement I would buy it in a second. I just love Nurgle and the fluff of Typhus' ship being forced into the service of Nurgle to save themselves fascinates me.

I'd love to see Thousands Sons, personally.


Death Guard would also be cool.

I want to see a complete codex, rather than having them drip-release supplements that include 4 pages of rules for the same price as the codex...

 insaniak wrote:
I want to see a complete codex, rather than having them drip-release supplements that include 4 pages of rules for the same price as the codex...

Also yes.

-Shrike- wrote:
I want a Thousand Sons supplement. Here is what I want:
- Get rid of Slow and Purposeful on Thousand Sons. No Overwatch on a unit dedicated to shooting? feth off.

I agree with that, it always seemed pretty odd to me. Perhaps
"Swap the Slow and Purposeful rule in the Thousand Sons entry for Automaton.

Automaton - The unit may not Run or Sweeping Advance, but always counts as not having moved when firing in any phase."