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Okay, so with a standard 28mm model (round base, we'll say a Space Marine for argument's sake) how do you measure?

Do you measure front to front, center to center, or back to back? (Which point of the base do you use as the point of reference for your tape measure?)

It doesn't seem like there's a standard way of doing it at my local, but whenever someone measures center to center or back to back, it always looks suspicious to me. What do you guys think?

Front to front. Though as long as it was consistant back to back would be fine. Middle to middle sounds incredibly inaccurate.

It seems to me that measuring distance or movement from the front of the model is the easiest way to avoid "problem" measurements. I regularly play with a guy that measures from the middle of a model for movement and it always makes me feel a little uneasy, especially when moving vehicles. It is much harder to make sure that the distance is correct in my opinion. I don't think that he is intentionally trying to cheat, but I think that he gets his movement wrong some of the time.

Front to front or back to back . They are both valid but the placement of other models or terrain may dictate one being easier than the other. Much of it also depends on the game you are playing and the bases. I have never played with square bases so moving them accurately seems much more difficult than circles.

On models with round bases I have taken to measuring from the side where the round base touches the tape meaure/tac template.

On vehicles I pick a part of the hull. Rectangular hulls are easy. Things like Devil Fish and Serpents are trickier.

It depends how accurate the movement needs to be. If you're going for maximum accuracy on a Round Based model, you touch the ruler/tape to the side of the base, and measure the distance along from the point of the touch. Measuring from the Front to Front or Back to Back invites innaccuracy, as you're either waving your ruler up above the model, or putting it to the side anyway, half an inch away from what you're measuring.

So basically, touching point on the side to touching point on the side works best for round bases, when space and time permit.

Anything but front to front doesn't seem right.

Front to front. I've got 2 friends who have a habit of doing front to back on the sly, which I call them out on every time.

Cliffy_3 wrote:
Anything but front to front doesn't seem right.

Here's a question though: why does side point to point seem wrong to so many people, when it's more accurate?

Middle to middle.

I've played more games where the rules did this and tbh, GW is the outlier here (they may be a "standard" but it's a dodgy one.)

Not surprised how this shook out, but, wtf .... middle of the model to middle of the model ? How in god's name do you keep it relatively accurate ? How can you be sure that the point you designate on the base is the same one you measure to after moving. It gets even worse with scenic bases or bases that have been fully based.

I knew "front to front" was going to be the landslide leader, but i thought the stray votes would be back to back, not middle to middle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
Middle to middle.

I've played more games where the rules did this and tbh, GW is the outlier here (they may be a "standard" but it's a dodgy one.)

... Okay, color me curious. How do you keep it consistent ? I've never run across a middle to middle moving game before. Do the pieces have markers or something to guide you ?

Honestly curious. I think the only way I can think of to avoid arbitrariness would be with a base marker of some sort.

Oh, silly me.

You guys were talking about how you measure in GW games, obviously.

I don't measure anything in 40k.
I don't play it.

Infinity uses a "Centre to centre" and most of the figures will have a centrepoint on the base.

I voted other (I don't cheat)

I usually measure from front to front or back to back but I also use identifiable parts of the model, such as a head to base my moving off.
On vehicles I work things the same.

I voted other (no cheat) as sometimes it's easier to pick a point on the model than a crowded grouping to always use the base. Also with WMS or hillcrests to pick a point and measure out and move LESS than 6 inches to be sure.

 Haight wrote:
Not surprised how this shook out, but, wtf .... middle of the model to middle of the model ? How in god's name do you keep it relatively accurate ? How can you be sure that the point you designate on the base is the same one you measure to after moving. It gets even worse with scenic bases or bases that have been fully based.

I knew "front to front" was going to be the landslide leader, but i thought the stray votes would be back to back, not middle to middle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
Middle to middle.

I've played more games where the rules did this and tbh, GW is the outlier here (they may be a "standard" but it's a dodgy one.)

... Okay, color me curious. How do you keep it consistent ? I've never run across a middle to middle moving game before. Do the pieces have markers or something to guide you ?

Honestly curious. I think the only way I can think of to avoid arbitrariness would be with a base marker of some sort.

Yep, I'll show you how I do it. Sadly don't have my minis or my better measuring tape (this one is crap, and bends too much at the sides) on me, but here goes.

Here's a picture of measuring middle to middle (or side point to side point), moving 4", from the 2" mark to the 6" mark. On perfectly round bases, it's very accurate, simply set the right tape measurement to any point on the base, and then slide the base along until it has any point touching the second measurement you want. On a round base it's very accurate, and it doesn't matter a jot how else the miniature is turned, just any point touching to any point touching.

Side to Side/Middle to Middle


So there you are, very accurate and quick, just put your starting mark to any point of the mini, slide it along the tape with any point touching, and you're good. The distance you're measuring is right on the edge of your tape measure, giving you maximum fidelity for the measurement.


Meanwhile, how do you measure Front to Front? I mean, there are several ways to do it too.

Front to Front , but on the side

Once again, this is from 2" to 6". This has the disadvantage that you're trying to estimate your movement from at least half an inch sideways (more for larger bases, such as this one) - if mm matter, you're going to run into arguments. The viewing angle and point you decide is the exact "front" can have a fair impact on your measuring.

Front to Front - Hovering

The old Hover and Hope. Easy to move your hand a bit while moving a miniature and completely miss the mark, and parallax error makes it a fair guess even if you have a hand of stone (the "bases" are still in the same correct positions as earlier, but parallax error means you couldn't hope to tell that from this picture). Worst of the lot for accuracy, but quickest and easiest to do when lots of minis make measuring on the mat difficult.

Front to Finger (or marker dice)

As accurate as the Side to Side method if done correctly, but far more tedious.

You can also have fancy tools, such as this (and there are other types of tool that work too):

which will accurately measure front to front quickly, but I've never seen one in real life (though I'm sure quite a few people have similar things), gamers just usually don't bother with more than a tape measure.

Generally, people do whatever is possible, given the minis on the table, but where I can, when mm might matter, I'll always try to use side-point to side-point for best accuracy, or Front to finger/marker if I can't get to the side of a model, and smaller widgets if there just isn't any room to get a tape measure down. Blasts scattering is about the only thing I do the "Hover" with, as you often have to measure over the top of models.

To me it seems that regardless of the game, front to front is the most accurate, unless the model's base has some way of easily determining centre-to-centre on all sides, in which case it can be just as accurate.

If you're just winging it on the centre-to-centre I don't see how it can be more accurate.

That 'Fancy Tool' Is a great idea. Would be awesome for moving of green tide. If someone made one, I would probably use it.

I use the whippy sticks from GW boxsets, and cut them in (re-measured) strips of 2, 4, 6, 8 and 12 inches. They are small enough to be laid down on the ground next to the model, parallax is almost inexistant if you're honest about it. It works best with side to side because there is no way to overshoot the measuring stick.

Obviously, I only use 6 and 12 for 40K, but the other measures work well with other games like Malifaux and Infinity.

I usually measure from middle to middle - not too sure why.

The measuring on my games doesn't have to be extremely accurate though - they are usually just pick-up games in my local GW. I'd be a bit more strict on myself and my opponents if it was a tournament setting though.

I tend to do a front-to-front hover, but I think Madder has sold me on going side edge to side edge when I need to be precise. I've also thought about doing something along the lines of Mathieu, and cut some sticks at <5" and <11" so that I can go front to back (I balk at doing it because I'd need to shave off 28mm, which makes for an odd-length... but if I ever bust out my Ork or Tyranid horde for some heavy game play, I'll make some just to speed things up.)

I do front to front, my buddy does back to back, others do middle to middle. Middle to middle is shakier for me because it can easily lead to middle to back which is a little extra movement.

It doesn't bother me, as long as you're consistent and as long as it's not front to back.

I have a bunch of little sticks like X-wing. since most of the my guys are on 25mm bases.
a selection of 1"-12" sticks covers most movement and charges.
for movement- say 6" put the 5" stick in front of the base move guy to far end of stick.
for charges roll the distance get stick of said length and see if it reaches.

I can move a crapload of orks quickly and accurately with the sticks.

Front to Front. Tape measure is laid directly next to models and "clicked out" at appropriate range. If it's movement I'm considering but might take back, I measure distance and mark position with dice until I move the actual models.

For armies too large to always have room to lay down a measure (Nids and IG) I like to use one of those 6" plastic measuring tools. It's the 2010 Adepticon made by GF9, if I recall.

One of the other guys I used to play with before he joined the Army did back to back at all times. Effectively identical, but damned if it didn't drive me nuts.

I cut one of the red measuring sticks so that I could place one end on the front of the miniature and move it so that the back of the base goes to the other end. i.e., front to back. I have to make sure I clear that with my opponents too ... just so they know what I am doing.

I measure front to back. It's the best way to get extra movement....

No but seriously I do front to front.

As I am in an extreme minority (middle to middle) I figure'd I'd respond.

I like to measure from point to point on a model, usually a specific point 'round the middle of the model, like the top of a model's head, the point of a weapon, or something similar. I find it easier to get an accurate movement on this basis, but that's just me. It isn't right or wrong, but once I pick up a model to move it, I like to know for sure what point I started from, and the edge of a model's base tends to look the same all 'round.

I also like my models rotated in a way that makes sense, pointed at models they are attacking and so forth, so I am one of those guys that jimmies models once they are moved. I'm sure it must drive some folks up a wall, but things look better when a model is oriented in a sensible manner, even if the ruleset makes no distinction for facing.

In any case, movement is not an exact science. There's plenty of human error involved, and terrain screws with things often enough. Consequently, there's no real reason to get in a tissy over it unless someone is clearly abusing the rules (front to back or some such). And when it matters, most of the time you measure the important distance before touching the model in the first place. Can this model get into the assault? Measure first, if it checks out, move the model in.

Front of base to front of base for most skirmish games.

Front of regiment base measured from the middle for Kings of War.

The Auld Grump

 chromedog wrote:
Oh, silly me.

You guys were talking about how you measure in GW games, obviously.

I don't measure anything in 40k.
I don't play it.

Infinity uses a "Centre to centre" and most of the figures will have a centrepoint on the base.

Can i ask if that's "center" as in "middle of the base" or center, as in the centerline of the side of the base.

I ask, because i'm having a tough time figuring out how "middle of the base" would be reliable consistently.

It seems like I'm not the only person who is suspicious of measuring from the center or the back of the model.

Does anyone here ever feel comfortable enough asking an opponent to measure front-to-front? There are a few people who's movement I find suspicious, and I'm wondering if I'd be out of line to ask them to measure my way.

 Haight wrote:

Can i ask if that's "center" as in "middle of the base" or center, as in the centerline of the side of the base.

I ask, because i'm having a tough time figuring out how "middle of the base" would be reliable consistently.

Infinity uses TWO sizes of bases. 25mm and 40mm and BOTH are circles. No squares, rhomboids, ovals or hexes. Just circles.

Centre of a circle is easy enough to find given that the slots in their bases run along the diameter. Unlike GW's off-centre slots.
I'm having difficulty believing how you could not be able to find the "centre" of a circle of a given diameter. Did you just not pay attention in school geometry or something?
Possibly something not taught in your schools - I learned it at the age of 12 or so just before starting our high school (Math teachers were next door neighbours).


As for cheats - Anyone who cheats gets run out of town on a rail (literally. My club is adjacent to the local railway station) or failing that, never gets to play any of us again and gives the game up. They then go find a game that is more suited to their mentality. Win/win as far as we're concerned. We don't care if we are seen as "elitist" if it keeps those with a "flexibility with rules" attitude away from any of our games.