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Hey Dakka Dakka, I am stuck and have been stuck for awhile on a direction to go with my CSM army and how to build my list. I originally wanted to go with a Khorne build with zerkers but after reading more about them they dont seem to preform as well as I would like. I have had people suggest Nurgle, and plague marines and to be honest they seem to be quite tough. Currently I have the DV box unpainted, a maulerfiend/forgefiend (magnetized), Unpainted Nurgle Daemon prince, and one Daemon prince with black mace.

I would like a more shooty list, If I want to get close and crump, Ill bring my Orkz!

CSM players, What direction do you suggest I go?

OBLITERATORS seriously these guys are amazing If I'm running pure csm you take at least 6 with the mark of nurgle every time. That's the way to run a shooty list with csm.

Hmm, if you want to go for shooty i'd go with obliterators and maybea heldrake to fly around and deep fry infantry or pick up and eat vehicles. I've seen people use waves and waves of cannon fodder (cultists) against T 3 armies (so they wound on 4s) and there dirt cheap so you want want to think about that.

agent1320

Oblitz and heldrake are good choices. I use both in my army 6 oblitz is not a bad idea either. You need marines and havocs. Plague marines are effective cause a unit of 5 can take 2 special weapons.

The shooty faction of CSM are the noise marines. Not as hard to kill as PM, but can definitely do damage.

Noise Boys are about as good as you can get...

3 oblits can shoot 6 shots at S7 AP2 24" at best

10 noise marines can belt out 2 S8 blasts and 21 bolter shots that all ignore cover

Guard blobs behind an aegis take two wounds from the oblits and about 20 wounds


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From the noise

I have to disagree with the guy above. Both units have their uses, but obliterators can do far more than rapid fire plasma at 24". They have a weapon choice for literally everything. Terminators, MCs (plasma cannons, twin linked plasma), tanks (multi-melta, twin linked melta, lascannon), light infantry (twin linked flamer, heavy flamer, assault cannons). Take them with Mark of Nurgle so they won't be one-shotted by Str8-9 and Vets of the Long War if you can afford it.

Noise marines I find work best as cheap, 5 man unit with a blastmaster for around 125 points. If you want to bring sonic blasters do a 10 man with 6-7 blasters, but realize if you're facing a gunline army you'll have to completely waste one turn moving the sonic blasters up to within 24" so they can fire.

Heldrakes are amazing. Can't go wrong with them against anything but AV13-14 and things with a 2+ save.

Autocannon havocs are also really good points wise.

noise marines are best paired with sorcs. If you get endurance you can ignore that wasted turn of not being able to shoot from all of its perks and don't forget about symphony of pain...

Since noone seem to have mentioned it or my eyes are failing, do you want a competative list or a fun list? That is the first step to consider!
I really like the Plague Marines, they really feel like a solid allcomers choice (I haven't tried Noise Marines yet).

I really like running 2x2 Obilts for their jack-of-all-trades as mentioned before. I would also grab a Predator since they are really cheep, I find i usually get my moneys worth from them if positioned correctly! I currently don't own any AC Havocs, my group that I play with don't actually run any fliers yet (about to change) so they are one of my next must buy!

Shooty CSM can do all sorts of things, MSU Noise Marines for Blastmaster spam, MSU Plague Marines for special weapon spam, Baledrakes, Obliterators, Double Special in normal squads of CSM, Havocs and Preds for heavies.

Great input everyone! I am looking for a competitive list, I have orks for fun and laughs but I want my CSM army to be a competitive list but not a WAAC list. I have been told to go with oblitz before, noise marines are a new one, ill have to look at them when my codex gets here (Moving trucks taking way longer then expected) Keep the feedback coming!


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Also, I have a 2k points budget.

I use Huron Blackheart with my NM. Infiltrate them inside sonic weapon range and take full advantage from turn 1

Ill have to look into that option

is there a combat option that works? I don't know what to give our champions so that they won't die in a challenge. Power sword or maul or stick with the fist/ax and try to get lucky.

I really want to try CSM either khorne or slanesh with banners just to try them. Since we don't have a reliable transport, probably 15man blobs if that would work.

The aspiring champions won't fair well against close combat HQ's and multi-wound models. They do moderately well against MEQ with a ccw and pistol or even a power weapon, but I have never had luck as most of my opponents really try not to be that close to me.

Havocs havocs everywhere... and plague marines.

Feedback on this list please and I still need to fill some points.

List: 1933 points

HQ (335pts)
Daemon Prince (260pts)
Power Armour, Slaanesh, The Black Mace, Wings
Sorcerer (75pts)
Mark of Slaanesh, Power Armour

Elites (499pts)
Noise Marines (249pts)
Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster, 8x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Doom Siren

Plague Marines (125pts)
Flamer (5pts), 4x Plague Marine
Plague Champion, Bolt Pistol, CCW

Plague Marines (125pts)
Flamer (5pts), 4x Plague Marine
Plague Champion, Bolt Pistol, CCW

Troops (128pts)
Chaos Cultists
9x Autogun, Champion's upgrade, Flamer, 10x Squad models (champion included)

Chaos Cultists
9x Autogun, Champion's upgrade, Flamer, 10x Squad models (champion included)

Heavy Support (631 pts)
Obliterators x3, MON
Obliterators x3, MON
Forgefiend Hades Auto cannon

Fast Attack (340pts)
Heldrake x2

Hmm it is hard to justify plagues and noise without them being troops. You might want to invest in a lord to unlock their respective cult troops. But then those lords to be competitive will probably need a bike, and then you will probably need a squad to run that bike lord in, spawn or more bikes...welcome to chaos listbuilding, where if you want one unit you need to build your entire list around it.

Also they FAQed noise marines to allow 1 blastmaster per 5 and 2 per ten so you can add another one in those noise marines.

You probably don't want to mix and match the doom siren and blaster masters which don't pair well together and might be a waste of points. As shooters you want to set those noise marines up in a firing lane and not move them which also means those 24 inch range sonic blasters might be left out of range, just something to keep in mind.

Also to be a pain...your list consists of mainly static troops/shooters and then a daemon prince. That daemon prince will have the almightiest target on its back since there is no other fast threat in your army.

Also one of the best things about plague marines is there ability at 5 guys to take 2 special weapons, which you should maybe try to take advantage of. i like 5 plagues and 2 plasma guns for 150 pts.

Hope that helps

That was one of my questions when was building the list, What special weapons to take with the PM. What should I take then for HQ? Lords on bikes with squads of biker marines? If I do then they are fast attack And not troops even though i have Noise and PM as troops

 zammerak wrote:
That was one of my questions when was building the list, What special weapons to take with the PM. What should I take then for HQ? Lords on bikes with squads of biker marines? If I do then they are fast attack And not troops even though i have Noise and PM as troops

I usually take 2 plasma guns on footslogging plague marines. They don't have the range or speed for melta. But if your using rhinos that opens up the other weapons.

If you want to run plague marines then a Nurgle lord with power fist, lightning claw, bike, sigil, run in a unit of nurgle bikers or nurgle spawn would be a good addition and make those plague marines troops.

If you want noise marines as troops a Slaanesh lord with:

a: Powerfist, lightning claw, sigil, bike, in a unit of slaanesh bikers would be ok
b: Burning brand, sigil, and lightning claw on a steed of slaanesh (for outflank) or a bike in slaanesh bikers for a harassing unit.

The bikes wont be troops but they will make the cult guys troops. It depends on how you want your army to play, a counter assault hard hitting unit might be what you need to protect your shooters, or a harassing unit might suit you more.

You can't have your lord on a bike and steed of slaanesh sadly. But I have to agree to take out your DP (even though he's a hard-hitter) for a MoS Lord. Give him BBoS, mark, some kind of special melee weapon for them challenges, and either SoC or terminator armor. With the extra points I'd get another allied HQ MoS sorc who has ML2 and VotLW using cultists as the troop choice. Give your primary HQ sorc another Master level. Try to get both of them symphony of pain and endurance. If you're a lucky man you'll get both, roll for master of deception on the warlord trait. start on the enemy side being able to move, shoot everything normally, and charge (due to endurance)


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Thats for NM though... For PM do a MoN lord on a bike and put him with a bike squad and considering you have 6 oblits I don't think you need any more melta so give those PM 2x plasma's per squad (add one more squad if you can). You also won't really need the NM as much either or the sorc. Due to this I say keep that DP and make him a DoT and add some MoN chaos spawn for further fast attack- possibly losing the forgefiend (optional)


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Last edit... Get rid of the DP,the forgefiend, and one squad of cultists. make the HQ sorc an allied detachment. For your primary detachment do both a MoN Lord and the MoS Lord; MoN Lord kitted for close combat while the MoS Lord has BBoS. Add another NM squad. Get rid of 1x obliterator from each of the heavy's to get a squad of bikers or rhino's (something fast like Spawn to divert attention or help move everyone up)

 chillis wrote:
You can't have your lord on a bike and steed of slaanesh sadly.

Ah that was a typo, thanks for the catch. I meant a bike Or steed of slaanesh. It would be an interesting model that could have ride a bike and a steed of slaanesh.

THOUSANDS SONS WOOT

Steffo wrote:

 chillis wrote:
You can't have your lord on a bike and steed of slaanesh sadly.

Ah that was a typo, thanks for the catch. I meant a bike Or steed of slaanesh. It would be an interesting model that could have ride a bike and a steed of slaanesh.

To be honest I once was trying to do a MoN Lord that was a palanquin on a bike... I never played it like that because I wanted to make sure it was legal. I mean, it only changed the Lord to become bulky and still infantry so why not? ahhh a man can dream

Ok, so far I have learned that CSM list building is far more complex then my Orks. Taking the advise of you guys here is the list V2.

1991 pts

HQ (310pts)
Chaos Lord, MoS, Bolt Pistol, BBoS
Chaos Lord, MoN, Bolt Pistol, The Black Mace
Sorcerer (allied) Mos, Power armor

Troops (865 pts)
Chaos Cultists, 9x Autogun, Champion's upgrade, Flamer, 10x Squad models (champion included)
Noise Marines, 2x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster, 8x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster, Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist
Plague Marines, 4x Plague Marine, 2x Plasma Gun. Plague Champion, Bolt pistol, Power weapon. Plague Marines, 4x Plague Marine, 2x Plasma Gun. Plague Champion, Bolt pistol, Power weapon. Plague Marines, 4x Plague Marine, 2x Plasma Gun. Plague Champion, Bolt pistol, Power weapon.

Fast Attack (512pts)
Heldrake, Baleflamer
Heldrake, Baleflamer
Chaos Bikers, 5x Chaos Bikers, Mark of Slaanesh, Chaos Biker Champion w/2x Lightning Claws

Heavy Support (304pts)
Obliterators x2, MoN
Obliterators x2, MoN

Not sure what force weapons to put on the Plague Champions

Decide what you want squads to focus on.

Noise marines, I love them, salvo ruins their effectiveness if they move they go 1/2 range. On the same note, if you're going shooty ditch the p. Fist. Unwieldy on an I5 champ is contradicting. The blastmaster is best weapon in the game IMHO just do 5 w/blastmaster and do 2-3 squads of them so you can hit multiple targets effectively. You can rip apart vehicles, but if you've added 50pts in people and sonic weapons you're wasting those points :/

I dislike PM just because everyone says you need them they're good units though, I'd roll with plasmas.

Heldrake rocks

I play 2 oblits in 2 squads and 5havocs w/4autocannons, it's awesome and a small enough target in each they often get left alone.

i don't know much about choas besides how to smite them in the name of the emporer/the greater good.

I would howerever like to see a Thousand Sons based army that wins tourneys. They got the short end of the stick during the Heresey.

Also don't deck people out just because.

Nurgle lord I'd drop mace because you're not really gearing him for CC murdering. He's there to bring PM

If you drop auto guns shotty and flamer
Black mace
Power fist

You're now up close to 90-100pts to help you split the NM drop to 5 w/blastmaster and you have 1 more troop choice for objectives.

Or find the points and get the Havocs AC team

Your biggest threat though is monstrous creatures


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I'm trying to build competitive Tsons :/ quite a feat if I pull it off

Tsons do pretty good as 6 man teams in rhinos...

Arhiman
4x Tsons in rhinos
2x cultists (10 ea)
3x termies (3 ea) MOT, flamer/PFs
2x laspred
1x havoc (5 ea) plasma in rhino
Aegis w/4g

Advance the rhinos, fire out the ports
Ahriman stays w/ cultist in aegis
Laspreds sit back row middle or both on a flank(vs armor)
Deepstrike termies
Anti-air:
Pres are good
Aegis4g
Anti MEQ:
Tsons
Anti XEQ:
Termies
Anti TEQ:
Havoc plasma
Press
Anti MC
Termies
Laspreds
Havocs
Force weapons

?