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I'm slowing building up my IG force, and I want to get a good idea of what direction I want to be heading before I start shelling out tonnes of money, I want to go mech that's for sure. I've come up with an army i'd like to use, but not sure. Feedback would be great, thanks! (BTW I love mortars)

Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC (Primary Detachment) Selections:

HQ
Company Command Squad
Flamer,
Master of Ordnance,
Mortar,
Regimental Standard
Company Commander: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Troops

Infantry Platoon A
Heavy Weapons Squad
Krak Grenades, 3x Mortar

Infantry Squad
Flamer,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Squad
Flamer,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Platoon Command Squad
Flamer,
2x Lasgun,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Platoon Commander: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Platoon B
Heavy Weapons Squad
Krak Grenades, 3x Mortar

Infantry Squad
Flamer,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Infantry Squad
Flamer,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Platoon Command Squad
Flamer,
2x Lasgun,
Vox Caster
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Platoon Commander: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Executioner: Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons

Leman Russ Demolisher: Lascannon, Plasma Cannons

Ordnance Battery
Griffon: Heavy Bolter
Griffon: Heavy Bolter

1,495 points.

Better take Medusas instead of Griffons, eventually a Manticore.
I really like IG Mech lists

If you need points ... ditch those Heavy Weapon Teams (Mortars) - although I like them too, even if most say they are crap.

nah, griffons are great

daisho wrote:
Better take Medusas instead of Griffons, eventually a Manticore.
I really like IG Mech lists

If you need points ... ditch those Heavy Weapon Teams (Mortars) - although I like them too, even if most say they are crap.

Manticores are cool, not too sure on Medusas. I like the accuracy of the Griffon and being able to reroll scatter dice if you so wish. And for such a cheap points cost, you can't go wrong!

um, I see no reason for the flamers, if your IG are that close their is prob something wrong, If you do want flamers, ive seen them really powerful on the chimeras, the heavy flamer, they ripped my orks a new one

Kaptain Skullstompa wrote:
um, I see no reason for the flamers, if your IG are that close their is prob something wrong, If you do want flamers, ive seen them really powerful on the chimeras, the heavy flamer, they ripped my orks a new one

Having a flamer guard in each Chimera so I can drop a template against anything that gets close! Yeah I was thinking of dropping the HB for the HF, but the bolter has much better range.

I think the chimera heavy flamers are a matter of preference, it's basically a trade off between a general boost to your firepower (that the heavy bolters give you) compared with the occasional devastating template hit in the right situation.

If I were you I'd add some extra firepower to your general chimera squads in the form of heavy weapon teams - autocannons or lascannons are good!

Also those platoon command squads have a lot of potential wasted, as they can get you cheap special weapons. I'd equip them with 3 meltas:

Platoon command squad with 3 meltas in chimera = 115pts

It's a really cheap and dangerous little unit!

I'm guessing you play against a lot of infantry as I don't see many anti tank weapons?

 DoomMouse wrote:
I think the chimera heavy flamers are a matter of preference, it's basically a trade off between a general boost to your firepower (that the heavy bolters give you) compared with the occasional devastating template hit in the right situation.

If I were you I'd add some extra firepower to your general chimera squads in the form of heavy weapon teams - autocannons or lascannons are good!

Also those platoon command squads have a lot of potential wasted, as they can get you cheap special weapons. I'd equip them with 3 meltas:

Platoon command squad with 3 meltas in chimera = 115pts

It's a really cheap and dangerous little unit!

I'm guessing you play against a lot of infantry as I don't see many anti tank weapons?

Heavy weapons in Chimeras kinda confuse me, can a HWS fire their heavy weapons whilst still in the transport, or do they have to disembark? If the latter, won't they then have to waste a turn as they won't be able to fire after disembarking. Yeah many people i've come against bring few vehicles and as an Ork player, PKs dealt with tanks, but the Leman Russ' are there to try and make a dent in any tanks I face.

I'm curious why you're taking normal troops in Chimeras rather than the ever popular mechvets? Right now I think you only have two AP 3 units, let alone ap 2. I'm not sure if you've already bought these units, if you have, no biggy, they'll definitely be useful, otherwise you might want to consider making some of the troops plasma vets.

On top of that, HB's tend to be less effective than plain old Las Cannons in a lot of situations. You're list looks like it could use some more anti-armor MEQ, as you only have the russes right now.

The problem is with those flamers is that against MEQ lists they really underperform, wherein as long as you hit with plasma or melta usually something or someone dies. The other issue I am seeing is most people (that I play against at least) field some form of outflanker, so unless you are bubble wrapping those russes they or your artillery will probably get popped as soon as the outflankers hit the field (I recently had this problem with and armored fist list, quite pathetic actually)

 randomtoaster wrote:
Heavy weapons in Chimeras kinda confuse me, can a HWS fire their heavy weapons whilst still in the transport, or do they have to disembark? If the latter, won't they then have to waste a turn as they won't be able to fire after disembarking. Yeah many people i've come against bring few vehicles and as an Ork player, PKs dealt with tanks, but the Leman Russ' are there to try and make a dent in any tanks I face.

You can fire a heavy weapon from the chimera like any other weapon, though you'll still have to snap-fire if the vehicle moved at all. Overall not the best use of resources if you plan on the tank moving much.

I also dont see the idea of a flamer in each squad. If somethings assaulting you, you will be lucky to even get off 1-2 wounds not counting if they make the save or not in overwatch. I would much rather take melta or plasma guns.

If your running mech I would stick to dedicating everything to being in a transport. The units that are out will just be asking for the anti infantry fire from your opponent as eveyrthing else is mechanized.

Demolisher should not have plasma sponsons, lascannon isnt bad for the first or second turn long range shot and even being able to snap fire, But as leman russes lost Lumbering behemoth according to the FAQ. A russ can fire all of its weapons but if it fires an ordnance weapon all other weapons have to snap fire and as plasma sponsons are blast weapons you cant fire them at the same time as the demolisher cannon. I would suggest a Vanquisher with lascannon and plasma cannon sponsons. Kills tanks and transports at a distance and can knock out any foot slodgers with 2 solid shots and 2 blasts at s7+ and all at ap2. Very resilient tank if I must say.

I am surprised you are not running vets in chimeras either. Plasma vets are pretty much one of the IG's best troop choices.

If you'd still like to run a mechanised infantry platoon I'd go for something like this:

PCS with 3 meltas in Chimera with heavy flamer 115

PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120
PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120

I think there is still room in a mechanised force for something like this as plasma vets are very expensive! These will help you cover your anti infantry niche just as well with the bonus of more chimeras and more defence (as these three cost roughly the same as two plasma vet squads).

Another great unit I like to run is the platoon command squad like this:

PCS with 3 Plasma guns in chimera with heavy bolter 150pts

This allows you to use the order 'bring it down' on their own unit, giving you re-rolls to hit with the plasmas and helping avoid any rolls of 1 and overheats.

I also would like to back up dropping the demolisher plasma sponsons, I'd just run it with no upgrades at all.

Plasma vets are pretty expensive units, and all my units in this list are sat in tin cans apart from the CCS (which i'm thinking of switching out for a Commisar) and the Mortar squads, which would be sat in the backfield.

How would you guys run a mechvet list?

 DoomMouse wrote:
If you'd still like to run a mechanised infantry platoon I'd go for something like this:

PCS with 3 meltas in Chimera with heavy flamer 115

PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120
PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120

I think there is still room in a mechanised force for something like this as plasma vets are very expensive! These will help you cover your anti infantry niche just as well with the bonus of more chimeras and more defence (as these three cost roughly the same as two plasma vet squads).

Another great unit I like to run is the platoon command squad like this:

PCS with 3 Plasma guns in chimera with heavy bolter 150pts

This allows you to use the order 'bring it down' on their own unit, giving you re-rolls to hit with the plasmas and helping avoid any rolls of 1 and overheats.

I also would like to back up dropping the demolisher plasma sponsons, I'd just run it with no upgrades at all.

PCS doesnt not get the order bring it down, so that doesnt work. Also the squad would have to disembark from the chimera as you are not able to give orders to squads embarked in transports, yes I know its to themselves in the transport but rules as written states no orders to squads in transports. And you best bet that once that squad disembarks they are most likely dead.

Sorry, I meant company command squad - the points are still correct. That really surprises me about the order thing, but I guess RAW it's right... Seems very counter-intuitive though.

My competitive mech list would be soemthing like:

CCS with 4 plasmas in chimera 165

PCS with 4 meltas in chimera 125
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120
PIS with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher in Chimera 120
Veteran Squad with 3 Meltas in Chimera 155
Veteran Squad with 3 Plasmas in Chimera 170

Vendetta with heavy bolters 140
Vendetta with heavy bolters 140
Vendetta with heavy bolters 140

2 x Griffons in a Squadron 150
1 x Griffon 75

It gives you 12 AV12 vehicles and 50 guardsmen, plus absolute control of the skies and anti horde / special weapons sniping from the griffons.

At 1500pts I would even suggest dropping the 3rd vendetta in that list and adding another PIS with grenade launcher/autocannon in a chimera to have some more troops because once Guardsmen are out of their transports they drops so easily and chimeras arent exactly very survivable. I would then even suggest using the remaining points to upgrade the squad of 2 griffons to a manticore. I personally believe a manticore does a better job than griffons as it has a better chance of hurting more targets. If your opponent has a mechanized army you will want to start popping transports turn 1 rather than waiting until turn 2 when they are half way across the board for your vendettas to pop them and thats even "if" your vendettas come on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a 1500pt list I run is:

CCS
x4 plasma guns
chimera

Troops

Vets
x3 plasma
chimera

Vets
x3 plasma
chimera

vets (In vendetta)
x3 flamers
demolitions

vets (In vendetta)
x3 flamers
demolitions

Vendetta

Vendetta

Marbo

Leman russ Vanquisher
Pask/lascannon/plasma cannon sponsons

Leman russ eradicator
heavy bolter sponsons

Heavy armored russes lead the slow charge as they can easily take long range fire. chimeras follow behind to provide defensive support for the russes if anything gets to close to melta them or assault them which almost shouldnt happen turn 1. Turn 2 I would hope my vendettas come in to provide some air support, as well as marbo to possibly pick of an enemy unit in the back field. The armored line just pushes to objectives and lets vets sit on them to hold. The vendettas fly around and drop their vets where they are needed to clear an objective and kill big threats(demo charge/3flamers/ rapid firing lasguns does some damage.)

 tankboy145 wrote:
marbo to possibly pick of an enemy unit in the back field.

Is Marbo a good use of points? I've heard he can be really hit and miss, I know he can be pretty destructive. But being a one shot weapon, if he fails; thats a decent amount of points down the drain :/

 randomtoaster wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
marbo to possibly pick of an enemy unit in the back field.

Is Marbo a good use of points? I've heard he can be really hit and miss, I know he can be pretty destructive. But being a one shot weapon, if he fails; thats a decent amount of points down the drain :/

He's meh. If your opponent has any interceptor units (e.g Tau) then he's basically useless unless you have favourable terrain to manipulate too.

I used to swear by Demolitions doctrine on Vets but lately I've found if you're using Air Cav 3/4 of the time I never get to use the charges because you can only paradrop along the line the Vendetta moved on, which means they're typically quite a fair bit behind the target and thus out of range with the charges, and even if they're not you don't want to paradrop that close if it can be helped, because its too risky.

The melta bombs are nice, but they're not worth it when you could remove both of the doctrines with Marbo and free up 125 points - practically enough for another Vendetta with tankboy's list. I'm also not sold on Pask either, he costs a crap load of points for what he does and I find he rarely lives up to it. Remove him and you could have another CCS with 4x Plasma in a chimera.

I think he's usually pretty worth it. I tend to leave him out of mech lists though and focus points on getting as many armoured hulls as possible

I'm thinking of following Tankboys list, however, dropping out one of the vendettas for 2 Griffons, and somehow working in Mortars into the list. Dropping Pask, and maybe bringing in Marbo to experiment with.

Is 4 scoring units enough in objective based games?

 randomtoaster wrote:
I'm thinking of following Tankboys list, however, dropping out one of the vendettas for 2 Griffons, and somehow working in Mortars into the list. Dropping Pask, and maybe bringing in Marbo to experiment with.

Is 4 scoring units enough in objective based games?

Its not numbers as much as it is basically A) Is your scoring core able to survive late into the game and B) Can you in some capacity take objectives on both halves of the board reliably.

A) You've got Vendettas, so your Vets can just sit in them if you're not confident you can take the objectives later, and your Chimera squads have a great defense in their sheer offensive firepower.
B) Yes, as you're very mobile and unless you choose to disembark both Vet squads and/or both of the Vendettas get shot out of the sky, you can just steal objectives at the last second with either a risky paradrop or a preferable skimmer+disembark move.

If you're building a mechlist, I would never go with running mechanized platoons, the goal is not to try and get as many chimeras you can on the field. Tankboy's list is a great example of how a good mech list should look. A few Chimeras backed by either Leman Russes or artillery, with a couple Vendettas with Flamer or Melta Veterans to take objectives on the other table half.

 tybg wrote:
the goal is not to try and get as many chimeras you can on the field.

Is it not? In terms of shooting, lists need both defensive and offensive capability. I think that the platoon can be justified if you keep it minimum sized as it allows you to access the cheap PCS. This platoon is roughly equal cost to 2 squads of plasma vets:

PCS with 3 meltas in Chimera with heavy flamer 115

PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120
PIS with Grenade Launcher and Autocannon team in Chimera with heavy bolter 120

and I think it is scarier personally, as it is far tougher to kill. I would still run a couple of plasma bearing squads to back it up though and handle the anti-marine bracket. I think russes do work well with a mech army, but they shouldn't be relied on to do too much of the killing. I've had a fair bit of success running a stock demolisher at the head of the charge, as the fear-factor really allows it to absorb a lot of anti-tank fire that would otherwise be directed at chimeras.

Marbo is indeed very situational. If your opponent keeps a cheap unit in the back to hold a homefield objective guess whos gunna tae care of it, marbo. Your opponent has some artillery out of Los, guess whos taking care of it, marbo. Your opponent deepstrikes some termies or some deathstar unit in, and marbo comes in after guess whos taking care of it marbo. Marbos blast can scatter and miss or even kill him. Your opponent may get lucky and pass a lot of cover or invuln saves but marbo is only 65 pts, I couldnt think of anything more to spend 65pts on. Also to note marbo has melta bombs. So when he comes in bomb some troops that would pose a great threat to killing him with weight of fire, Once they are bombed the fallowing turn you just want to run and hide to get line breaker, and if possible blow up and back field tanks or artillery. You have to use him very cautiously to get an amazing trade off, otherwise he just a 1 time demo charge.

Also 4 troops is pretty light as I would prefer 6. But my russes usually lead the spear head and my plasma CCS, and 2 vets in chimeras act as defensive units for the russes. This is so they live longer and arent just killed off right away. Russes are hard to kill from a distance. AV14 really only fears lance weapons. If theres lance my tanks play defensively and once my vendettas come on they try to take it out. Otherwise my russes can soak up the fire power. The vanq with LC/PC and pask is essential for taking out heavy armor right away. Stopping something turn 1 is key to keeping the pressure on your opponent. The eradicator is also key because in most armies people use some for of cheap units to sit back and hold objectives now spending more points on bigger elite units to go out and do the killing. So the eradicator ignores cover and can take out that cheap guard/cultist/ork unit sitting back holding the objectives and then the amount of fire power it puts out can put enough wounds to kill other targets as well. Tau also keep most of their army back so enough shots from the eradicator will cripple them.

Russes are also great when it comes to killing your opponent. If anything you would want your russes to be able to do most of the killing, as mentioned they are hard to take out from a distance so that forces your opponent to come close to harm them and once that happens then the plasma or melta vets spring forward and kill whatever comes close. If your opponent is going for your russes then guess what hes not going for thats more important, your troops. It is key, especially in a list like mine that my opponent does not focus on my troops, there are too few of them but you best believe these troops are heavy hitting but if they start taking fire right away they will be lost.

A cheap platoon in chimeras seems like a waste of points. The firepower it puts out is rather weak and to me it just calls for more easy kill points for your opponent.

If you use the mechvet lists which imo are better than platoon mech lists purely for the +1 BS and 3 special weapons per squad.

I usually take a unit of Melta vets in a chimera (takes on heavy infantry and vehicles) and a Flamer/Demolitions unit in a HF chimera (provides up to 6 templates that ignore cover, used for clearing objectives and anti-horde), this works quite well for me.

However, as I don't have more than two chimeras and no vendettas, I tend to field 2 units of forward sentry vets with autocannons and snipers to camp on home objectives with the aid of a CCS with banner and appropriate special weapons. This kind of fire base I have found useful as it often provides a thorn in your opponents side.

Add into this a LRBT and your army packs some serious fire power, some AP1 and AP3 and loads of templates for anti-horde!

I also try to run a Lord Commissar with one of the Vet squads to ensure they are there when needed. Marbo is also fun to use and provides a second demo charge which can sometimes be invaluable.

I wouldnt run flamer/demo vets in chimeras, Chimeras are very fragile especially the guys inside. I would be rather surprised if your opponent even let that chimera make it half way across the board, if he does hes doing something wrong. I know you dont have vendettas but to be honest I wouldnt run flamer/demo squads unless they were in the vendetta. Most of the time you want troops to hop on objectives late game and a vendetta can easily do that and at that point you may as well drop the bird into hover mode to make sure your guys get to where they are going.

If playing mech Guard dont expect to have your chimeras survive. Usually since they are so fragile most of the time mine are all dead by the end of the game. With my troops really hugging the terrain holding objectives. If my russes are alive they are either blocking or in the back providing fire support for my guardsmen.

Looking at the suggestions and posts in this thread, i've come up with a revised list. I won't drop the mortars or the Griffon though, I love them too much.

Imperial Guard 5th Ed by TC (Primary Detachment) Selections:

HQ (145pts)
Company Command Squad (145pts)
2x Plasma Guns
Autocannon
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Company Commander: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Troops (735pts)
Veteran Squad (155pts)
4x Lasgun
3x Meltagun
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (155pts)
4x Lasgun
3x Meltagun
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (155pts)
4x Lasgun
3x Meltagun
Chimera: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (85pts) - These will be in the Vendetta
3x Flamer
6x Lasgun
Veteran Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Veteran Squad (170pts)
Demolitions
3x Flamer
6x Lasgun
Chimera: Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser
Veteran Sergeant: Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Fast Attack (130pts)
Vendetta Gunship Squadron (130pts)
Vendetta: 2 Twin-linked Lascannons

Heavy Support (475pts)
Leman Russ Squadron (260pts)
Leman Russ Vanquisher: Pask, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons

Leman Russ Squadron (170pts)
Leman Russ Exterminator: Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Ordnance Battery (75pts)
Griffon: Heavy Bolter

Drop the Master of the Ordnance, he's so inaccurate he'd miss a 200 Ork strong Green Tide. Then drop the Dozer Blades, and with those points you can afford to upgrade your Vanquisher with Pask. Without him, you'll likely find your Vanquisher lacking. A single shot BS3 main cannon and a lascannon will fail you 50% of the time, Pask makes them BS4 and adds +1 strength vs vehicles so the Vanquisher becomes an anti-tank monster.

 tybg wrote:
Drop the Master of the Ordnance, he's so inaccurate he'd miss a 200 Ork strong Green Tide. Then drop the Dozer Blades, and with those points you can afford to upgrade your Vanquisher with Pask. Without him, you'll likely find your Vanquisher lacking. A single shot BS3 main cannon and a lascannon will fail you 50% of the time, Pask makes them BS4 and adds +1 strength vs vehicles so the Vanquisher becomes an anti-tank monster.

Also rerolls to wound on the monstrous creatures. But the strength bonus to vehicles and rerolls to wound monstrous creatures is only if he doesnt move, otherwise your just grabbing him for +1bs. I personally would use pask in a vanq. But a vanq without is hit or miss, as others said its only got a 50% chance to hit with both weapons. The plasma cannons as I mentioned are a bonus and add to his ap2 and high strength.

I would also drop the dozer blades for extra points.

In the army youve listed its very defensive. The mortars and MoO cannot fire as they are blast and large blast weapons if the chimera moves. The are also very lack luster heavy weapons, autocannons and lascannons would serve you better. I mean melta guns are anti tank weapons and in order to use them right you need to drive uup to your opponent and in an armored Guard army pushing forward is what the list should be doing. Mortars wont serve you right as their strength is weak and there ap is too high so in turn they will probably do nothing. You also have to wound your opponent just to try and pin the unit, but most units have high leadership or they are fearless. Its your call if you really want to use them but if your staying back plasma guns are better as they allow you to fire at a longer range. If you play defensive and you dont have an aegis line expect all your chimeras to be dead. Why is because your long range fire power is 2 russes, a vendetta, griffon and some mortars. I will tell you now mortars wont do much. The vendetta wont come in until turn 2 if not later, so your opponent will already be very close with most of his army at that point. Once your chimeras blow up your melta troops are as good as dead and will really struggle trying to move and kill the opponent.

Your list is trying to do 2 things. 1 is be a mobile mech force, 2 is its trying to be a static mech gunline. You need an aegis if your going gunline and if you are going gunline you need better heavy and mid range weapons. If you want to go mobile you are probably best of ditching the heavy weapons and what not.