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Hi all,

Despite the huge success of my Seer Council list, I want to try out a different list for my next upcoming tournament, Gaelcon. I am going for a more general list akin to the standard you see floating around. Here's what I've got so far.

Farseer
Eldar Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God

Spiritseer


5x Wraithguard
D-Scythes, in Transport 1

5x Dire Avengers
In Transport 2

5x Dire Avengers
In Transport 3

10x Guardians
In Transport 4

3x Windrider Jetbikes


7x Warp Spiders


Wraithknight
Wraithknight


Transport 1: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Laser and Holo-Fields
Transport 2: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Laser and Holo-Fields
Transport 3: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Laser and Holo-Fields
Transport 4: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Laser

The list pretty much explains itself, but I'm unsure mostly about the Wraithguard weapons. D-Scythes have greater potential against a greater range of opponents, and deters counter charges when they drop, however they need to drop hazardously close to the enemy, and are sure to be barraged by another nearby unit, meaning they must try and drop into terrain where Conceal from the Spiritseer can help. Wraithcannons on the other hand have the added strength and range and the chance of ID. My main thoughts in these comparisons go out to Riptides and White Scars Bikes. Based on the rest of the list however I initially have gone for D-Scythes as I would like another means of dealing with hoards. So which should I choose?

On the note of the list itself, I am of course open to suggestions, however I have no more Wave Serpents and no more Warp Spiders and so cannot take any more of either unfortunately.

Well what else do you have?

I personally am a big fan of hawks. The s4 barrage crushes things like tau behind gun lines and the blind from the sun rifle helps too.

List seems good though, not alot really to change.

Why do you need the farseer and a spirit seer? I personally like the autaurch on the bike with mantle but obviously their both good in what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well what else do you have?

I personally am a big fan of hawks. The s4 barrage crushes things like tau behind gun lines and the blind from the sun rifle helps too.

List seems good though, not alot really to change.

Why do you need the farseer and a spirit seer? I personally like the autaurch on the bike with mantle but obviously their both good in what they do.

I don't like the Shard or Spear on the Mantleseer. Expensive and encourages you to put him in barns way where you don't want him.

As for Wraith weapons with 2 Knights I don't think you desperately need more S10 shooting and remember the D-Scythes can cause ID too. So I would keep them the same.

I'm guessing your meta is low on flyers? Because quad Helldrakes, Storm Raven spam and Cronair will all cause you real issues.

My concern is that all autocannons will target your Serpents with no other really viable targets to shoot at. Which means I can see them going early game. Your D-Scythe Serpent will be target number 1 so you have to think about how you're going to deal with that.

I run a Wraith list with just 3 Serpents at 1750 and against decent Tau it is almost an auto lose as they can kill 2 if not all 3 in a single turn even with the 4+ save up. The Knights cause Tau a problem though so it might not be as bad for you (my list is all Wraiths and Spiders).

I in general don't like bitty lists like this that are trying to be everything but this list looks like it could work.

In general I like the list outside of some of extras on the Farseer.

You are weak against flyers, but against anything that isn't 2+ Helldrakes you will be able precience/guide the Wraithknights in a pinch. Precience Guardian rapid firing rear armor can work as well if need be.

If it is 2+ Helldrakes, just stay in your Wave Serpents for last turn objective grab, kill his troops and deny his objectives with the Wraithknights. Helldrakes are hard pressed to scratch either.


A solid list, but I'd look at the Farseer's loadout.

 Icelord wrote:
Why do you need the farseer and a spirit seer? I personally like the autaurch on the bike with mantle but obviously their both good in what they do.

Because the Farseer and Spiritseer do drastically different things. Farseer adds Fate/Div buffs and debuffs while the Spiritseer is to unlock Wraithguard and support them directly via Battle/Telepathy.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'm guessing your meta is low on flyers? Because quad Helldrakes, Storm Raven spam and Cronair will all cause you real issues.

Triple Heldrakes is the most I've seen around here, and Raven SPAM died a long time ago, but no, the meta still has plenty of flyers, but there's not much more Eldar can do themselves other than add more Serpents and Spiders, which as I've said, I don't have. I'm not too concerned about Drakes though, as in my experience they struggle to hurt Serpents or Knights, so if they come on early they likely have few targets, leaving me time to deal with them.

 FlingitNow wrote:
My concern is that all autocannons will target your Serpents with no other really viable targets to shoot at. Which means I can see them going early game. Your D-Scythe Serpent will be target number 1 so you have to think about how you're going to deal with that.

True, but what armies are bringing tonnes of Autocannons? Last I checked Guard and Chaos have stopped doing this for the most part, and I don't see any other armies even trying this. Even then, it takes 5 Autocannons at BS4 to do a single HP to a Serpent, with little chance of blowing it up. That's two units at least just to do a Hull Point. Not sure how that's a threat. As for the Scythes, haven't put too much thought into it yet; suggestions?

 FlingitNow wrote:
I don't like the Shard or Spear on the Mantleseer. Expensive and encourages you to put him in barns way where you don't want him.

 Zagman wrote:
In general I like the list outside of some of extras on the Farseer.

I guess I can see where ye are coming from with this one, and I could save quite a few points by dropping these items.

 Zagman wrote:
You are weak against flyers, but against anything that isn't 2+ Helldrakes you will be able precience/guide the Wraithknights in a pinch. Precience Guardian rapid firing rear armor can work as well if need be.

If it is 2+ Helldrakes, just stay in your Wave Serpents for last turn objective grab, kill his troops and deny his objectives with the Wraithknights. Helldrakes are hard pressed to scratch either.

This has been my thoughts exactly. Eldar don't have any innate abilities against AV12 flyers, and since I don't own any Tau my only option against AV12 flyers is to build so as to mitigate their damage. Drakes need precise support to hurt my list in the right circumstance, and I we don't have many Ravens around these parts. Vendettas could be an issue, but getting Spiders or Serpents in the rear armour is pretty easy.

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, will go take a look at where I could use those points instead of on extra Farseer gear.

True, but what armies are bringing tonnes of Autocannons?

Tau. I take it you haven't played against the new Tau they generally pump out between 48 & 72 S7 shots a turn that ignore cover. That's all 3 Serpents dead in one turn most of the time. I still see autocannon spam with guard and CSMs. Marines and quad guns and other Eldar can also bring a lot of S7 poor AP shots. Not to mention Necrons for instance my Necron army fields 9 twin linked teams destructors at 1750 for 36 S7 shots and potentially 108 S7 hits an average 48 hits.

 FlingitNow wrote:

True, but what armies are bringing tonnes of Autocannons?

Tau. I take it you haven't played against the new Tau they generally pump out between 48 & 72 S7 shots a turn that ignore cover. That's all 3 Serpents dead in one turn most of the time. I still see autocannon spam with guard and CSMs. Marines and quad guns and other Eldar can also bring a lot of S7 poor AP shots. Not to mention Necrons for instance my Necron army fields 9 twin linked teams destructors at 1750 for 36 S7 shots and potentially 108 S7 hits an average 48 hits.

See when you say Autocannons, I think of Autocannons, not anything else.

I'm also not seeing where you could possibly get more than 48 S7 shots from Tau; you can have at most 12 Broadsides. What else in the army has HYMPs? They only all Ignore Cover if the army also has 3 units of Pathfinders and a buff Commander, and goes first. That's also way over 1000pts, meaning it either doesn't also have 3 Riptides or doesn't have decent amounts of Troops.

I haven't seen Autocannon SPAM Guard or Chaos either on the internet or in my own meta since last year. Where are Marines getting tonnes of S7 shots from? I've never seen any such standard Marine list, and certainly not from the new book. Eldar and Necrons were a given, but are both matches that suffer equally from an Eldar opponent. BTW, those 48 hits from TDs still only just take out 3 Serpents, and that's if you ever get all of them at once given that 2/3 of those are from Flyers who don't enter play until at least turn 2.

Anyway, my main concern here is you are telling me that all of these S7 things will kill my Serpents, but not made a single suggestion as to what to do about it, so I'm not sure what you want me to do here. TBH though, I think you might be looking into best case scenarios for the opponent a little too much, but maybe that's just what you see at events, so I won't dismiss it by a long shot. I also think you expect me to build a TAC list, but really you can't build those any more as 6th has gotten too RPS. There are just some matches you have to fight uphill. So you if you are convinced that S7 will ruin me, what am I supposed to do about that list wise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited the first post to reflect the changes to the Farseer.

By autocannons I mean auto cannon type weapons basically S7 fire power that is AP4 or worse lootas are another one. By 48-72 S7 shots I was talking about 6-9 Broadsides. 12 would pump out 96 S7 shots.

24 S7 shots coming your direction will worry a Wave Serpent even if they don't ignore cover. And that's just 1 unit. Putting ignore cover and/or +2 Bs and there's barely even a point in rolling the dice.

I'm not saying S7 ends your day just there are a lot of S7 spam armies out there and unfortunately I can tell you from experience 3 Wave Serpents isn't enough at this point level. Though granted I don't run 2 Wraithknights and that might give you a distraction or a solution. Tau in particular struggle against Wraithknights as they have no combat units that are a threat to it, they have no poison or grav to bypass T8 and their plasma is S6 and their main AP2-3 S8 stuff is blast weapons. Kroot are a good answer but are not commonly seen.

As stated I'm not trying to destroy your list as stated I quite like it but you need to be aware of what causes you a problem and you need to have a plan to mitigate those match ups. Just because you don't have anymore Wave Serpents doesn't preclude you from getting some and if you can't in time for thus tournament then it is something to have in mind both during and then after to see how you could fit in another Serpent or two.

Instead of running the Seer with the Mantle, I'd cut the mantle and run another squad of Windriders to escort him. He's way too fragile without ablative wounds against Ignores Cover weaponry, of which you'll run into a lot. Plus, then you get another squad of bikes to snatch objectives, for only 11 more points than the Mantle.

With the remaining points, you can always spend 30 to put the Shuriken Cannon on your transports - the extra twin-linked (presumably) S6 shots are critical when trying to take down flyers, and there are very few targets they are poor against.

I'd try to fit in a squadron of warwalkers if you have them, they'll help a lot with AA if need be and that will give your farseer a solid unit to prescience.

Plus they should help take take some heat off your wraithguard so they can get in range to D-Scythe their target.

 FlingitNow wrote:
By autocannons I mean auto cannon type weapons basically S7 fire power that is AP4 or worse lootas are another one. By 48-72 S7 shots I was talking about 6-9 Broadsides. 12 would pump out 96 S7 shots.

24 S7 shots coming your direction will worry a Wave Serpent even if they don't ignore cover. And that's just 1 unit. Putting ignore cover and/or +2 Bs and there's barely even a point in rolling the dice.

I'm not saying S7 ends your day just there are a lot of S7 spam armies out there and unfortunately I can tell you from experience 3 Wave Serpents isn't enough at this point level. Though granted I don't run 2 Wraithknights and that might give you a distraction or a solution. Tau in particular struggle against Wraithknights as they have no combat units that are a threat to it, they have no poison or grav to bypass T8 and their plasma is S6 and their main AP2-3 S8 stuff is blast weapons. Kroot are a good answer but are not commonly seen.

As stated I'm not trying to destroy your list as stated I quite like it but you need to be aware of what causes you a problem and you need to have a plan to mitigate those match ups. Just because you don't have anymore Wave Serpents doesn't preclude you from getting some and if you can't in time for thus tournament then it is something to have in mind both during and then after to see how you could fit in another Serpent or two.

I thought HYMP were Heavy 4 and that Broadsides only get 1 each? So how would 12 have 96 S7 shots and not 48 S7 shots? I'm looking at the Tau dex right now and see no way for a single Broadside to get more than 4 S7 shots each.

As for the Serpents, I would rather have more, but thought I wouldn't be able to get more. However I just managed to make a sale of a console a few minutes ago that I didn't think would go through, so there may be hope yet. Thanks for all your help, will be posting a new list below in a minute.

LoT wrote:
Instead of running the Seer with the Mantle, I'd cut the mantle and run another squad of Windriders to escort him. He's way too fragile without ablative wounds against Ignores Cover weaponry, of which you'll run into a lot. Plus, then you get another squad of bikes to snatch objectives, for only 11 more points than the Mantle.

I may try this, though it does feel like Seer Council Lite.

flaming tadpole wrote:
I'd try to fit in a squadron of warwalkers if you have them, they'll help a lot with AA if need be and that will give your farseer a solid unit to prescience.

Problem with Walkers in this list are that they fall behind. Something I learned at my last tournament this past weekend is that it really pays off for your whole army to be able to run away together if necessary.

Ok guys, so new list based on new ideas gained in this thread, and the revelation that I may be able to get another Serpent. Keep up the comments; ye've all been great.

Farseer
Eldar Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God


5x Dire Avengers
In Transport 1

5x Dire Avengers
In Transport 2

10x Guardians
In Transport 3

10x Guardians
In Transport 4

3x Windrider Jetbikes
3x Windrider Jetbikes


10x Warp Spiders


Wraithknight
Wraithknight


Transport 1: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers and Holo-Fields
Transport 2: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers and Holo-Fields
Transport 3: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers and Holo-Fields
Transport 4: Wave Serpent with Twin-Linked Scatter Lasers and Holo-Fields

73pts left over.

Broadsides always cone with Missile Drones so the Broadside has 4 S7 shots and the drones have another 4 S7 shots. On average that's nearly 5 S7 hits per suit without ML support.

As for the new list I think having 4 Serpents helps more.

Is the Farseer going with the 3 jet bikes? Because I have to disagree that he is more survivable in such a unit compared to solo with a Mantle. Killing 3 Jet bikes is pretty easy. With the Mantle you have choices either just hide from his ignores cover weapons until they are dead (not that difficult for 1 Farseer) or plump him front and centre and force the ignored cover to fire at him (whether you'll do this will depend on the quality and quantity of the enemies ignoring cover fire). Where as putting him with the 6 bikes is too many points to be entirely defensive with.

I prefer the Mantle build.

But looking even more solid now.

 Icelord wrote:
Well what else do you have?

I personally am a big fan of hawks. The s4 barrage crushes things like tau behind gun lines and the blind from the sun rifle helps too.

List seems good though, not alot really to change.

Why do you need the farseer and a spirit seer? I personally like the autaurch on the bike with mantle but obviously their both good in what they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well what else do you have?

I personally am a big fan of hawks. The s4 barrage crushes things like tau behind gun lines and the blind from the sun rifle helps too.

List seems good though, not alot really to change.

Why do you need the farseer and a spirit seer? I personally like the autaurch on the bike with mantle but obviously their both good in what they do.

swooping hawks have failed when i use them. your spending 90+ points on a squad for a s4 ap 4 ignores cover LB. if it scatters, then your left with the little lasguns. not saying theer useless, but not really important enough for this list i think.

d scythes are the way to go. keep em.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Broadsides always cone with Missile Drones so the Broadside has 4 S7 shots and the drones have another 4 S7 shots. On average that's nearly 5 S7 hits per suit without ML support.
Is the Farseer going with the 3 jet bikes? Because I have to disagree that he is more survivable in such a unit compared to solo with a Mantle. Killing 3 Jet bikes is pretty easy. With the Mantle you have choices either just hide from his ignores cover weapons until they are dead (not that difficult for 1 Farseer) or plump him front and centre and force the ignored cover to fire at him (whether you'll do this will depend on the quality and quantity of the enemies ignoring cover fire). Where as putting him with the 6 bikes is too many points to be entirely defensive with.

If you can hide the Farseer out of LOS, hiding 4 bikes is not that much more difficult. And "forcing the ignores cover fire on your Farseer" doesn't sound like such a great option when the goal is "keep your Farseer alive". Without the cover save he's a 3-wound Marine with a 4++, he'll go down quick if you expose him. And you're also ignoring the objective-scoring benefits of the Windriders.

Just a small aside here the list looks pretty solid, been working with large jetbike squads lately they are nice, much better if you can give your farseer a shard so they wont run away.

One thing to consider is giving your warp spiders an exarch with fast shot and spinnaret rifle. He is alot of points you would have to drop 2 spiders or poinst somwhere else like a cannon and drop 1 guardian squad to dire avengers. But i think alot of people miss the tactical advantage he gives. Not only is he BS 5 with a 2 shot (3 shot at 9 inches) ap 1 str 6/7 gun, but the most important part is that he has 18" range, why you ask is this imporant, because it allows you to position your spiders at 12 inches. This is the same thinking of taking 1 cannon in the bike squad vs none, it allows you to position exactly at 12 inches which allows you either get 12 inches +3d6 inches away if your running towards them, or if deepstriking in it allows you to position at 12 with battle focus and 2d6 away in assault. Since the normal infantry moves 6 + 12 you have the potential to get out of charge range entirely and v.s. things that can move 12 and charge your getting basically into a straight dice off to see if you are charged or not.

Not to mention str 6/7 automatic ap 1 hitting on 2's with 2/3 shots depending on board conditions is amazing.

The goal might not to be to keep the Farseer alive. Some times it is best to sacrifice him or risk him to win the greater game. As I said it will depend on your opponents ignores cover fire. If your opponent has for instance just 2 Wave Serpents putting your Farseer in front of them is not as bad as you'd think. Those Serpents should kill one of your Serpents if they concentrate fire on it. If they fire at the Seer all their S6 is basically wasted (due to 2+ reroll able) meaning they're relying on 9 shield shots which should make you take less than 7 armour saves. A risk certainly but in the right situation certainly worth it.

The Wind riders will never be alive to claim objectives late game unless you've already won the game by a mile. They are easy to kill and attached to a high priority target. Deep strikers and outflankers and flyers are a much bigger threat to the unit than they are to a mantleseer. Hiding 1 jet bike is massively easier than hiding 4, 4 actually have a fairly big foot print.

 FlingitNow wrote:
The goal might not to be to keep the Farseer alive. Some times it is best to sacrifice him or risk him to win the greater game. As I said it will depend on your opponents ignores cover fire. If your opponent has for instance just 2 Wave Serpents putting your Farseer in front of them is not as bad as you'd think. Those Serpents should kill one of your Serpents if they concentrate fire on it. If they fire at the Seer all their S6 is basically wasted (due to 2+ reroll able) meaning they're relying on 9 shield shots which should make you take less than 7 armour saves. A risk certainly but in the right situation certainly worth it.

The Wind riders will never be alive to claim objectives late game unless you've already won the game by a mile. They are easy to kill and attached to a high priority target. Deep strikers and outflankers and flyers are a much bigger threat to the unit than they are to a mantleseer. Hiding 1 jet bike is massively easier than hiding 4, 4 actually have a fairly big foot print.

While I'm certainly not fully gone on the Windrider escort, note that in our tournaments primary and secondary objectives have separate scoring, so losing your Warlord is a big deal.

In either case, I miscalculated and have about 50pts to play around with.

Not entirely sure what the Farseer does with the list; Without mantle he's too squishy to keep up and he's going to give up warlord points easily.

Trolltarch is a better choice I think:

Autarch, Jetbike, Shard, Mantle, Laser Lance, Mask 180

Shard is extremely underrated. 1-shotting Riptides and Wraithknights in cc is extremely scary.
Fusion gun is largely superfluous as you want to be in combat most of the time, and anything you can't hurt the WKs deal with.

Farseer on foot -100 pts

To be your warlord and buff/debuff. Hide him with the scytheguard or in the backfield.

DA/WS Scatter Laser x3 200

Bread and butter of the army. DA> Guardians if you're going serpent spam. Holofields aren't strictly necessary as most things that can kill you ignore your cover anyway; I rather put the points elsewhere
since they'll mostly be backline.

Scytheguard, WS w/SL Holo field, Star Engines 345
Pricey but the ultimate anti-anything unit. Spiritseers are generally pretty useless and losing him frees enough points for a jetbike squad, which will be better at getting objectives than a unit of
wraithguard. Their role in the list is anti-deathstar/ bullet sponge.

Two Wraithknights

5 Swooping Hawks 80

Extremely useful against Tau gunlines (AOE Blind against I2 ftw) and for picking off hordes and cover-reliant objective holders (Scouts with camo, Kroot, Plaguebearers, etc.)

5 Warp Spiders 95

Personally, I dislike them; they are quite annoying however. YMMV

1850 on the dot.

How the list should be played is the DA serpents stay back in cover while everything rushes forward to present too many threats for the enemy to deal with.
Use LOS blocking terrain to hide the trolltarch, then instagib Riptides after soaking overwatch with a WK. Multiple threats mean the enemy will be hard pressed to handle
any one unit; even two units hitting his lines are sufficient to cause havoc.

This list is possibly a true TAC list, able to handle pretty much everything be it FMC spam, Taudar, Tau/Tau, Horde Orks, IG Blobs, etc.

 FlingitNow wrote:
The goal might not to be to keep the Farseer alive. Some times it is best to sacrifice him or risk him to win the greater game. As I said it will depend on your opponents ignores cover fire. If your opponent has for instance just 2 Wave Serpents putting your Farseer in front of them is not as bad as you'd think. Those Serpents should kill one of your Serpents if they concentrate fire on it. If they fire at the Seer all their S6 is basically wasted (due to 2+ reroll able) meaning they're relying on 9 shield shots which should make you take less than 7 armour saves. A risk certainly but in the right situation certainly worth it.

Sure, but how many lists are only going to have only 2 Serpent Shields as Ignore Cover weaponry? Tau and most Eldar lists will be packing a lot more. Not to mention anything S8 Ignores Cover instant kills your Seer against hs armor or invuln.

The Wind riders will never be alive to claim objectives late game unless you've already won the game by a mile. They are easy to kill and attached to a high priority target.

In high objective games its not hard to snipe an objective by turboboosting across the board. The opponent can only focus on them if they have the firepower left to do so. Yes they are not difficult to kill if focused upon, but what do you want from 51 points?

Deep strikers and outflankers and flyers are a much bigger threat to the unit than they are to a mantleseer. Hiding 1 jet bike is massively easier than hiding 4, 4 actually have a fairly big foot print.

I can agree with the point about DS/Outflank/Flyers. I never said the Mantle is awful, I've run the Trolltarch with success, but he uses the Hit & Run much better than the Seer and also doesnt fit well with a Jetbike escort. Really depends on the meta, if you dont expect much Ignores Cover, go nuts.

I have the sneaking suspicion marine armies are going to be big there, especially bikers. If someone spams grav weapons, they will eath your wraiths alive. I suggest dark reapers, no better unit to krump bikers with.

Sure, but how many lists are only going to have only 2 Serpent Shields as Ignore Cover weaponry?

This list would most likely have only 2 Serpents as ignores cover after 1 round of shooting, certainly the previous incarnation with 3 Serpents, it gives you a difficult choice focus on trying to get STW to leave your opponents Serpents unmolested for another turn in which case its probably game over. People with S8 weaponry that ignores cover or Tau? Well obviously you wouldn't let them get LoS on him until the pathfinders were dead or the S8 ignores cover was dead. Could you really not work that out for yourself?

In high objective games its not hard to snipe an objective by turboboosting across the board. The opponent can only focus on them if they have the firepower left to do so. Yes they are not difficult to kill if focused upon, but what do you want from 51 points?

If they're your Warlords body guard they'll get shot at from turn 1. They'll be dead long before they get a chance to turbo boost on turn 5+. As will your Warlord.

Orock wrote:
I have the sneaking suspicion marine armies are going to be big there, especially bikers. If someone spams grav weapons, they will eath your wraiths alive. I suggest dark reapers, no better unit to krump bikers with.

Problem is Reapers are too slow to have a place in such a fast list. I've played against Bike lists already as well and found that the amount of S6/7 is enough to take them out. Also, Wraithknights have the range to stay out of range of Grav Guns for at least a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited both the list in the OP and the one further down the page (which still has 73pts to be spent), and still can't decide on which one to go for (or if they are ok as is).

FlingItNow wrote:

This list would most likely have only 2 Serpents as ignores cover after 1 round of shooting, certainly the previous incarnation with 3 Serpents, it gives you a difficult choice focus on trying to get STW to leave your opponents Serpents unmolested for another turn in which case its probably game over. People with S8 weaponry that ignores cover or Tau? Well obviously you wouldn't let them get LoS on him until the pathfinders were dead or the S8 ignores cover was dead. Could you really not work that out for yourself?

No need for the snark. You say "just wait until the opponents Ignores Cover is dead" like its some foregone conclusion. What happens when they don't go down? When your Farseer is hiding out of LOS the entire game, the Mantle is effectively a wasted 40 points.

If they're your Warlords body guard they'll get shot at from turn 1. They'll be dead long before they get a chance to turbo boost on turn 5+. As will your Warlord.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Are we hiding the Farseer or is he out in the open to be focused on? Its slightly more difficult to hide 4 bikes then one, but unless you're hiding behind a single pylon, its not that hard.

I have a tactical question regarding using either list for you guys. When playing Tau, which should be the number one target for the Wraithknights; Broadsides or Riptides?

Broadsides, they are the threat to your Serpents, the Riptides can be largely ignored.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Broadsides, they are the threat to your Serpents, the Riptides can be largely ignored.

That's what I figured. They are also a better bet for a kill, while also being a bigger threat to the Knights too.

riptides soak up to much of your fire power, and wont do much to your serpnts. broadsides are the opposite. So target broadsides