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I've been staring at this model for a while, and I am not seeing justification for why this model is worth including in a list. Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

So, is this model still useful? Why or why not? What does this model buy me that a dual star cannon wraith lord doesn't and why is that worth the extra 150 points?

WARNING: I don't own or expect to be able to play the Iyanden codex in tournaments. If people are finding it available for play in their area, please note that.

Why not try it and see?

I too was rather underwhelmed by it initially, but he has been a star in to tournaments for me, and earns his keep.

The best reason to take him is two str 10 shots, guided. You can guarantee he'll be around for at least two rounds of shooting, so he's got a decent chance to take out a land raider, or other high av target. Distort weapons means MC's fear him. Tau weapons bounce off him, and he can charge into a squad of marines and squish them (albeit slowly). He's fast, shoots, stabby and tough. In 8 competitive games, mine has killed;

Land raider (the tough one with the tf cannon)
2 rip tides
2 moniliths and them made a 20 man squad of necron warriors run off an objective.
A hell drake
Soulgrinder
Two grey hunter squads
A vindicator

And then he got spanked by Mephiston in another game.

Try him before writing him off.

I've been staring at this model for a while, and I am not seeing justification for why this model is worth including in a list. Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

So, is this model still useful? Why or why not? What does this model buy me that a dual star cannon wraith lord doesn't and why is that worth the extra 150 points?

I run two in my Eldar list and love them. I too was a bit skeptical at first, but the Wraithknight is better than the statline seems on paper. I've found that it really fills some of the holes in a Mech-dar list. For reference, I run:

Bikeseer
5x5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Shriuken Cannon
4 Jetbikes
8 Spiders
2 Shadow Weaver Support Batteries
2 Wraithknights

The Knights provide a few things. They require high strength weapons to take down, so they are not out of place alongside Serpents. They are fast, which helps there as well. Strength 10 is huge. It allows Eldar players to pop higher armor. It is amazing versus Daemons FMCs as well. Finally, they provide solid counter-attack.

There are things that take them down (Grav, poison), but you can mitigate these by reserving the Knights if need be.

Dessorag wrote:
Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

Yes, because everyone plays Vanilla Marines.

Belly wrote:
Why not try it and see?


The best reason to take him is two str 10 shots, guided.

The $90 to $110 is a bit of a stumbling block for something I am not sold on. That said, you and JGrand are both using them in a hardened killer capacity, and I have been using Brightlances for that role. How does he stack up to 5 Wraithguard in a serpent? Its about the same point cost, but I get more shots. Do you make use of the 4+ invuln pskyer power, or do you consider adding the shield?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wilytank wrote:

Dessorag wrote:
Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

Yes, because everyone plays Vanilla Marines.

It's a new item that circumvents his main defense given to a brand new codex that is probably used by 50% of the player base in one form or another. Yes, I do think that warrants consideration.

Aye, the Wraithknight – the Eldar’s answer to the Tau Empire’s Riptide and centrepiece of any Eldar army. Given the direction GW is going, this warrior will probably be dwarfed by whatever Tyranid monstrosity is to be released soon. Anyways, the question is: is he worth buying? Personally, I’m not a fan of the model itself. On top of that, I’m not a fan of this new model scale – I remember the good old days when an Avatar or Wraithlord was an imposing sight on the battlefield, now those days are long gone. However, given that most of us already possess Avatars and/or Wraithlords, the question is – how similar is the Wraithknight compared to them? What does he offer, that they do not? And is he worth his points cost? Let’s begin by comparing him to the Avatar. In close combat, the Wraithknight usually needs 4s to hit and gets hit on 4s, possibly even on 3s. You can kit the Wraithknight out with Ghostglaive and Scattershield, but that still doesn’t make it better than the Avatar in dishing out (because 6th edition has seriously nerfed master-crafted to the point where it’s just not worth it anymore), and the Wraithknight still can’t parry blows even if its life depended on it. The Scattershield grants it the same invulnerable save as the Avatar possesses, with the added bonus of blinding folks around it and thus bringing its parrying ability in line with the Avatar’s – but only if it passes an inv. save. The Avatar’s Weapon Skill on the other hand already guarantees that he hits on 3+ in 99% of situations, and on top of that, the opponent usually needs 5s to hit him. So is the Wraithknight better than the Avatar at close combat? Well, its Strength value is far greater, so it doesn’t need to worry about to-wound rolls as much as the Avatar does, although against regular infantry both perform equally well. Only against tougher gribblies does the Wraithknight have an edge. However, keep in mind that the Wraithknight has 1 less attack than the Avatar as well as far less initiative, although his greater toughness means he will be safer. So yeah, I’d say close-combat wise it’s a draw – the Wraithknight can only wound better but is worse than the Avatar in all other aspects (number of attacks, initiative, weapon skill etc.), but will get earlier into, and stay longer in the fight thanks to it being a Jump Monstrous Creature and having two additional wounds and two additional points of toughness, justifying its greater points cost.

In terms of ranged combat, things get more interesting. The Avatar has essentially a melta that WILL hit – and he can double its shots with an upgrade, so that’s two guaranteed hits on tanks when he gets within range. Compare that to the Wraithknight’s ranged arsenal: To begin with, monstrous creatures can only fire 2 weapons, so kitting the Wraithknight out with 4 is fairly useless unless you have enough points to spare and give him a fair assortment of anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons to make him an expensive jack of all trades. I’d rather you stick with 2. He comes with two Heavy Wraith Cannons – the only imposing thing about these weapons is their Strength value. In practice, they are no better against heavier tanks than Brightlances – and in the new codex, Eldar have plenty of BS 4 places to stick a Brightlance on, and plenty of weapons to take out light vehicles. So, given the monstrous creature’s ranged weapon limitations, I’d rather replace these two with the direly needed Scattershield and – depending on which of the bottom two tactics you follow, either Ghostglaive or Sun Cannon.

Tactic 1: Close combat. Turn 1: Move 12” and run. Turn 2: Move 12” and assault. Tear up stuff for the rest of the game with the help of the Ghostglaive. Even though it isn’t particularly useful, it keeps the points cost down.

Tactic 2: Ranged combat. The Sun Cannon allows the Wraithknight to tear gaping holes among the enemy’s toughest formations, and I’ll wager the Sun Cannon will vaporize (or rout) more stuff in 1 turn than the Wraithknight is able to in 2 turns of close combat (yours and your enemy’s), justifying the additional points cost. But here’s where it gets interesting: Combine the Sun Cannon with a Scatterlaser and you’ve got yourself a twin-linked Sun Cannon. This will ensure that your blast markers will fall where you want them to, making the ranged Wraithknight FAR superior to the close combat one, albeit costlier. On the other hand, a ranged Wraithknight is prime target for Rocket Launchers and AT weapons of all kinds, so maybe the Knight is safer in close combat after all?

The ability to jump 12" is what makes the wraithknight such a threat. It can quickly cross the board, and is a significant threat to any armor within 18" of it.

Due to its high toughness it can also be used to tie up units like the screamerstar for a few rounds. This can be a critical advantage when playing that list.

Overall, as mentioned, the unit is better in action than it looks on paper.

Dessorag wrote:
I've been staring at this model for a while, and I am not seeing justification for why this model is worth including in a list. Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

So, is this model still useful? Why or why not? What does this model buy me that a dual star cannon wraith lord doesn't and why is that worth the extra 150 points?

Wraithlord is slow and has only 3W. He also doesn't present the constant threat of instant death to the enemy. The Wraithknight can be where you need him to be, presents that ID threat all the time, can tackle just about any enemy, has 6W, and deters the enemy from getting too close to your valuable Wave Serpents.

Also the irony in your statement is that because of being Jump with 36" range the Wraithknight is not threatened too much by Grav Guns as he can easily stay well out of range and still be a threat whereas the slow Wraithlord cannot do so.

My Wraithknight hasnt been brought down yet.

I use him as fire control. The opponent has to shoot at him or he just dances around within 12" of my Farseer for the occasional buff and he just destroys infantry. And yes, give him the Scatter-las , Suncannon duo...its nice twin linking that blast template....

Dessorag wrote:
I've been staring at this model for a while, and I am not seeing justification for why this model is worth including in a list. Especially now with Grav weapons in play.

So, is this model still useful? Why or why not? What does this model buy me that a dual star cannon wraith lord doesn't and why is that worth the extra 150 points?

WARNING: I don't own or expect to be able to play the Iyanden codex in tournaments. If people are finding it available for play in their area, please note that.

Besides the obvious things like more wounds, better firepower, and more powerful melee attacks, the Jump pack is really what gives the Wraithknight the ability to earn its points cost. Moving 12" or re-rolling charge distance and getting a S10 Hammer of Wrath is huge.

So, given the monstrous creature’s ranged weapon limitations, I’d rather replace these two with the direly needed Scattershield and – depending on which of the bottom two tactics you follow, either Ghostglaive or Sun Cannon.

Neither of these are worthwhile.

The Glaive gives you...a re-roll. Terrible, especially because I can hit my Knight with Prescience in order to re-roll all hits.

The Sun Cannon is expensive and redundant. Strength 6/7 is abundant in Eldar armies as it is. On the other hand, strength 10 isn't common at all. It helps versus heavy armor and the ubiquitous FMC Daemons, which are a mainstay of competitive 40k right now. Also, the 6 to wound ID can't be understated. When it happens, it is huge.

Wraithknights are amazing, just keep them stock.

The Wraithknight is a very solid unit. It is neither a dedicated ranged nor a close combat unit. He is a very mobile unit that is capable of threatening nearly any hard unit in the game.

Use him to control a portion of the board, move him forward to threaten choice targets. Force your opponent to shoot him while keeping him close enough to deter forward portions of your opponents army. Use him to tarpit certain non rending non poison enemy units.

He can easily take out a unit of Khorne Hounds, delay the Screamerstar, drop Riptides in CC, Pop armor, and soak up a large amount of firepower.

I'm not a fan of the suncannon/shield/scatter laser variety, I've already dropped him for a second Stock Knight.

You want to know the value of a Wraithknight, point him at your opponents expensive unit of Broadsides and watch your opponent drop his entire army into him for two turns. Watch your opponent keep his non Iron Armed DPs away, or those pesky Nurgle Oblits or Grave Cents get dropped from a safe distance.

It's a source of both ranged and CC ST 10 attacks. ST 10 is a rare and valuable commodity in 40K.

If your concern are grav guns, fortunately, for you, the Wraithknight is maneuverable and you have good troops for whom the grav gun isn't that big of a deal.

 labmouse42 wrote:


Due to its high toughness it can also be used to tie up units like the screamerstar for a few rounds. This can be a critical advantage when playing that list.

The Lord can do this as well, but the increased mobility of the Knight would certainly help in this situation. This sounds like a good plan.

Martel and Godless:
The mobility does help against grav guns. I could say bikes give it a 30" range, but then again 6 grav shots from a set of bikes is only probably 3 to 4 wounds, so it doesn't kill it. At that point, it devolves into one upping, so I think I have confidence on this point now, thanks. Especially if I have serpents adding better targets.

 JGrand wrote:
On the other hand, strength 10 isn't common at all. It helps versus heavy armor and the ubiquitous FMC Daemons, which are a mainstay of competitive 40k right now. Also, the 6 to wound ID can't be understated. When it happens, it is huge.

Wraithknights are amazing, just keep them stock.

Against heavy armor, Brightlances perform equally well. Conversely the Heavy Wraithcannon is better when dealing with light and medium armor, but against these we have Scatter Laser spam.


Also, I think a Scatter-laser + a twin-linked Sun Cannon fired at a monstrous creature will cause more wounds than 2 HWC shots.

But STR 10 is not at its best against T6 targets. Hell, the Eldar can shuriken MCs to death.

Alright, considering everyone's points, it seems the thing the wraithknight really excels at is MC killing. My friends don't play flying circus, so I tend to give it less thought.

I kind of recall most MCs are T6 though. Which I can handle other ways. Negating Iron Arm is really nice, but it might depend more highly on that specific meta being prevalent.

Anyone gone up against missile armed longfangs? How about dark eldar lance clustering?

Yeah, there are going to be things that kill your Wraithknight. That's why you shoot those things with scatter lasers and starcannons.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, there are going to be things that kill your Wraithknight. That's why you shoot those things with scatter lasers and starcannons.

This. "Something can kill this thing with relatively little effort. Useless!" is a terrible excuse to not use something and half the reason for my original remark.

Unit synergy, people.

Its amazing how much people misunderstand the Wraithknight. Sure stuff like Grav Guns and Venom spam can hurt it, but only in a vacuum - people never seem to factor in mobility and how things would play out in a real game situation. There is no quantitative measurement in 40k for board control, threat ranges and influence on how your opponent plays, but those are the most important aspects of the game.

Obviously if you deploy on the line expecting to zerg a Dark Eldar Venom list you are screwed, but if you deploy properly you get at least 1 round of shooting out of it (which kills a Venom + the rest of your army drops more Venoms, and the DE player ends up having to shoot an entire army at one model to kill it, which is a win for the Eldar player). Similarly Grav Guns aren't anywhere near as amazing against Wraithknights as they are against Riptides. They only wound on a 3+ (and you should be getting a 5+ and have 6 wounds to get through), and you have a mobility advantage - Centurions should struggle to catch you at all and short of a huge block of Scouting bikes killing you turn 1 (again you can see that coming and make it tough for them) Bikes fear you more than you fear them. Its going to take more than one unit of Bikes to drop a Wraithknight, more like 3-4 units assuming the Wraithknight has its toes in terrain, and the physical size of Bike models and the footprint of Bike armies vs the relatively small footprint of the WK and the usual constraints of the board/terrain makes that tricky at best. On the other hand if you commit with the Bikes and don't manage to kill it then you are in serious trouble, the WK is quite happily going to jump forward, take that 6" charge and munch through a unit of Bikes over two rounds of combat (which works out perfectly for the Eldar player - it could just eat through half an army bouncing from combat to combat).

@LoT. All MCs get Hammer of Wrath base, so you don't need to be using the Jump pack to assault - you always get that tasty S10 impact hit.

Against heavy armor, Brightlances perform equally well. Conversely the Heavy Wraithcannon is better when dealing with light and medium armor, but against these we have Scatter Laser spam.

Right, it is at worst, about the same as a bright lance against heavy armor. The Wraith Cannon is better versus AV 13. It is also better against monstrous creatures.

However, this is looking just at the firepower. The mobility and counter attack ability of a Wraithknight far exceeds Wraithlords. While it does cost more, the heavy support slot is crowded. Taking 2x Wraithlords means other limitations for an Eldar list.

Also, I think a Scatter-laser + a twin-linked Sun Cannon fired at a monstrous creature will cause more wounds than 2 HWC shots.

Have you actually used a Wraithknight? I ask because I see lots of people dismiss them due to looking at them on paper. I'm not so sure that you are correct with this math as well. Sure, the combo you discuss has the potential to cause more "wounds". However, the Wraith Cannon will insta-death any MCs/units that are toughness 5 or lower. I see FMCs a ton in the competitive scene, and love the fear that st 10 puts in them. Also, the 6 to insta-death is great versus just about anything with no EW. It is worth taking pot shots at T6 creatures and other Knights due to that chance.

Finally, it is super easy to twin-link a Wraith Cannon. In fact, the only time mine do not get twin-linked is when I have to prioritize another unit's shots or if I've made a big mistake.

If we want to get into more problems with your combo, we can talk about the additional 60 points it costs in order to gain a redundant weapon...

 JGrand wrote:
However, the Wraith Cannon will insta-death any MCs/units that are toughness 5 or lower.

Can you give some examples of MCs with T5? Or basically any unit of multi-wound models with T5? Right now, the only ones I can think of are Ogryns (that nobody takes), Oblits & Centurions (always in cover), xv-battlesuits and Necron Destroyers.

 JGrand wrote:
Also, the 6 to insta-death is great versus just about anything with no EW. It is worth taking pot shots at T6 creatures and other Knights due to that chance.

I think by the time you get lucky and insta-kill an MC with the 6, the Tl-Sun Cannon has already killed more points worth of infantry than the points cost of that MC. 3 TL-S6 blasts are also good against side armor of speeders, vypers, piranhas and chimeras...with the new armor pen rules that allows the center hole to scatter off the hull and not half the strength of the shot, giving you an extra inch of scatter over 5th edition.

 JGrand wrote:
Finally, it is super easy to twin-link a Wraith Cannon. In fact, the only time mine do not get twin-linked is when I have to prioritize another unit's shots or if I've made a big mistake.

Not sure what you mean with this, but a Wraithknight is an MC and MCs can only fire 2 weapons max, so if you use the scatter laser on the Knight, you cant fire both TL-Heavy Wraith Cannons.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 JGrand wrote:
However, the Wraith Cannon will insta-death any MCs/units that are toughness 5 or lower.

Can you give some examples of MCs with T5? Or basically any unit of multi-wound models with T5? Right now, the only ones I can think of are Ogryns (that nobody takes), Oblits & Centurions (always in cover), xv-battlesuits and Necron Destroyers.

 JGrand wrote:
Also, the 6 to insta-death is great versus just about anything with no EW. It is worth taking pot shots at T6 creatures and other Knights due to that chance.

I think by the time you get lucky and insta-kill an MC with the 6, the Tl-Sun Cannon has already killed more points worth of infantry than the points cost of that MC. 3 tl-S7 blasts are also good against side armor of vehicles...with the new armor pen rules that allows the center hole to scatter off the hull and not half the strength of the shot, giving you an extra inch of scatter over 5th edition.

 JGrand wrote:
Finally, it is super easy to twin-link a Wraith Cannon. In fact, the only time mine do not get twin-linked is when I have to prioritize another unit's shots or if I've made a big mistake.

Not sure what you mean with this, but a Wraithknight is an MC and MCs can only fire 2 weapons max, so if you use the scatter laser on the Knight, you cant fire both TL-Heavy Wraith Cannons.

Um, Daemon Princes? Fateweaver? Iridium Armor?

Suncannon is S6? S6 is not great against vehicles and the Suncannon should not be targetting vehicles.

Precience/Guide?

Can you give some examples of MCs with T5? Or basically any unit of multi-wound models with T5? Right now, the only ones I can think of are Ogryns (that nobody takes), Oblits & Centurions (always in cover), xv-battlesuits and Necron Destroyers.

Ever play Daemons FMC spam? T5 everywhere. It is quite the popular tourney list. I see it all the time.

I think by the time you get lucky and insta-kill an MC with the 6, the Tl-Sun Cannon has already killed more points worth of infantry than the points cost of that MC. 3 tl-S7 blasts are also good against side armor of vehicles...with the new armor pen rules that allows the center hole to scatter off the hull and not half the strength of the shot, giving you an extra inch of scatter over 5th edition.

Why do you need more anti-infantry? There are so many Eldar options for that. With Guide/Prescience, I should hit with 6 shots over the course of three turns. If the shots don't do the job, the 6 probably happens by this point. It is also crazy to say that 3 strength 6 blasts are good anti-vehicle.

Not sure what you mean with this, but a Wraithknight is an MC and MCs can only fire 2 weapons max, so if you use the scatter laser on the Knight, you cant fire both TL-Heavy Wraith Cannons.

I meant what I said. I almost always fire twin-linked Wraith Cannons. How? I take a Farseer who takes Guide and Prescience. No need for a Scatter Laser.

Fair enough. I thought Daemon Princes were T6 I dont play against Chaos or Daemon players, but if you do, I can see how the HWC Knight is a must. Tyranid MCs are T6 though, arent they?

Given the general boost to BS 4 for the Eldar in the new codex, I usually have an Avatar or Autarch lead my army now instead of a Farseer. Having a Farseer boost a Wraithknight would mean more points needed to make the unit more effective though, isnt it? Brings it more or less on par with the added points cost for a SL/Sun Cannon Knight that is otherwise costlier.

 Sir Arun wrote:

Can you give some examples of MCs with T5? Or basically any unit of multi-wound models with T5? Right now, the only ones I can think of are Ogryns (that nobody takes), Oblits & Centurions (always in cover), xv-battlesuits and Necron Destroyers.

I think by the time you get lucky and insta-kill an MC with the 6, the Tl-Sun Cannon has already killed more points worth of infantry than the points cost of that MC. 3 TL-S6 blasts are also good against side armor of speeders, vypers, piranhas and chimeras...with the new armor pen rules that allows the center hole to scatter off the hull and not half the strength of the shot, giving you an extra inch of scatter over 5th edition.

Not sure what you mean with this, but a Wraithknight is an MC and MCs can only fire 2 weapons max, so if you use the scatter laser on the Knight, you cant fire both TL-Heavy Wraith Cannons.

Daemon Princes are T5 (as are some of the Greater Daemons I think), and they are by far the most common MCs around at the moment other than Riptides. You can also throw in all the T4 multi wound models, which is actually quite a big list even if you only look at competitive units - Paladins, Fleshhounds, Screamers, Wraiths, Battlesuits etc + the usual huge range of characters (it makes people think twice about tanking at the front of a unit with an HQ if it doesn't have EW). Just having the ID on a 6 rule is enough to make other MCs nervous.

When does the Suncannon ever kill its points in infantry? People don't actually use Terminators because they are terrible, and people don't stand in perfect formation for a small blast template - against a decent player you get 1-2 hits per template, so 6 hits, 5 wounds, so 2-3 dead assuming they have cover. Considering a Scatter Laser averages 1 Marine per turn that's not very impressive.

Remember you are playing Eldar... For 100pts you are guaranteed to get Guide/Presicence if you want them. Interestingly enough the Wraithknight is absolutely terrifying for fliers, because 2 Guided Wraithcannons have a decent chance of hitting, and S10 AP2 deals with any flier around. You have to take an HQ, so you can't really view it as a tax - at worst you get two Guided units per turn, on a good day you get powers which can swing games completely. I would far rather have a Wraithknight than an Avatar (it might actually reach combat) and the Autarch overall brings less to the army than a Farseer (particularly since the main 'support' ability he has is of limited use with the 6th edition reserve rules).

Powerguy wrote:
When does the Suncannon ever kill its points in infantry? People don't actually use Terminators because they are terrible, and people don't stand in perfect formation for a small blast template - against a decent player you get 1-2 hits per template, so 6 hits, 5 wounds, so 2-3 dead assuming they have cover. Considering a Scatter Laser averages 1 Marine per turn that's not very impressive.

Did you take the twin-link into account? I have never come across a player who has placed his models in cover AND 2" apart from each other. So its either lots of hits for models in cover, or a fair few hits for models outside cover. And more often than not people forget about spacing when moving out in the open - it has happened to me too. Nid players or Ork players never care unless they know you have a large blast marker lying around.

6th edition has made 2+ armor more relevant than in 5th, so if anything, 5th ed had a lack of terminators.

Powerguy wrote:
Remember you are playing Eldar... For 100pts you are guaranteed to get Guide/Presicence if you want them. Interestingly enough the Wraithknight is absolutely terrifying for fliers, because 2 Guided Wraithcannons have a decent chance of hitting, and S10 AP2 deals with any flier around. You have to take an HQ, so you can't really view it as a tax - at worst you get two Guided units per turn, on a good day you get powers which can swing games completely. I would far rather have a Wraithknight than an Avatar (it might actually reach combat) and the Autarch overall brings less to the army than a Farseer (particularly since the main 'support' ability he has is of limited use with the 6th edition reserve rules).

Personally I dont take Farseers due to most Eldar being BS 4, but invest another 100 points to take the Avatar, so my bias might have influenced my opinion. Dont think the Avatar is slow, though. Because of Fleet, he has an average movement range of 10", so he can make it into CC on turn 2 if you place him properly, otherwise turn 3. And the Wraithknight isnt better in CC than the Avatar with his subpar WS and Initiative.

Also, over the course of a game I am fairly certain a Wraithknight with Scattershield will last 1 turn longer than a Wraithknight without. So you are looking at x rounds of Heavy Wraithcannon fire compared to x+1 rounds of Sun Cannon fire during an average game, and so I think its a fair points investment as turn 4 and turn 5 are really the pivoting moments of the game when the stuff you have left over really starts to make a great impact over the final stages of the game.

I have never taken the suncannon loadout, and have always taken the Wraithcannon loadout, for one simple reason. Str 6 and Ap2 Weapons are bountiful in the Eldar codex.

Between Scatter laser serpents, Shuricannons, Bladestorm catapults, warp spiders, etc, there's not need for more Str6, Ap2. Especially in template form. I'd much prefer the wraithcannons for that lovely Str10. Guide/prescience means they almost always hit, and they scare the bejeesus out of anything with multiple wounds. Additionally, a 3 shot blast weapon may get a ton of hits against infantry that isn't spaced well. but against a vehicle or MC, it's just a 3 shot Str 6 weapon.

I understand your point about not taking farseers due to BS4, but respectfully disagree. Previously, guided with BS 3, you'd get 75% of your shots to hit, an extra 25%. With BS4, you're getting 88.9% of your shots hitting. That's ridiculous! Basically means that only 1 in 10 of your Str10 shots is missing a ground target. And that's just the primaris power, not to mention doom, fortune, and all the other stuff you can manage to roll up. But that's something for another thread. I hate to say it, but if you're playing Eldar and not taking at least a single Farseer, you're probably doing it wrong.

I take the knight because he fulfills a roll i struggled with in my lists. AT and Anti MC. 'Nids MC's are T6, but with two hits, you've got a 1/3 change of rolling an ID result

Belly wrote:
I have never taken the suncannon loadout, and have always taken the Wraithcannon loadout, for one simple reason. Str 6 and Ap2 Weapons are bountiful in the Eldar codex.

Between Scatter laser serpents, Shuricannons, Bladestorm catapults, warp spiders, etc, there's not need for more Str6, Ap2. Especially in template form. I'd much prefer the wraithcannons for that lovely Str10. Guide/prescience means they almost always hit, and they scare the bejeesus out of anything with multiple wounds. Additionally, a 3 shot blast weapon may get a ton of hits against infantry that isn't spaced well. but against a vehicle or MC, it's just a 3 shot Str 6 weapon.

I understand your point about not taking farseers due to BS4, but respectfully disagree. Previously, guided with BS 3, you'd get 75% of your shots to hit, an extra 25%. With BS4, you're getting 88.9% of your shots hitting. That's ridiculous! Basically means that only 1 in 10 of your Str10 shots is missing a ground target. And that's just the primaris power, not to mention doom, fortune, and all the other stuff you can manage to roll up. But that's something for another thread. I hate to say it, but if you're playing Eldar and not taking at least a single Farseer, you're probably doing it wrong.

I take the knight because he fulfills a roll i struggled with in my lists. AT and Anti MC. 'Nids MC's are T6, but with two hits, you've got a 1/3 change of rolling an ID result

That exactly!

I don't thin it's fair to compare the Suncannon load out with the HWC. They're basically designed for two different jobs! The Suncannon is an infantry shredder, and I agree a very good one against any infantry unit. BUT, I also have to agree that with eldar, that not what you need your knight for! With serpents armed with SL's, Avengers, Spiders, Bikes, Hell even guardians! You don't need more anti infantry. I run mine as a tank/riptide hunter, and as of yet he hasn't been killed before taking more than his own points value! However, I don't judge him on the points he kills alone, think of the points worth of firepower he can soak! I used to run 2, but have dropped one for more bods on the ground and serpents, as I didn't need SO much anti tank, But even with just the 1 the enemy is very afraid. I have played games where the first two turns the remainder of my army has remained relatively unscathed purely because they just shoot at the knight. Leaving my force to freely move close enough to then unleash hell!

I have to agree about the Farseer too. Why wouldn't you take one? At just 100 points, he has the potential to boss the game entirely, I personally see them as a must! Equally spirit seers are very good! Even if you cannot run the iyanden book, you can potentially gain wounds back, and you can spirit mark stuff! Which means to hit roles of 1 are re rolled anyway! Not that I'm overly sure why you can't use the iyanden book as it is a perfectly legitimate GW codex?

I like the avatar, I just find him far too slow. And having to perform smash to get strength 10, then gives him less attacks...I don't think he's worth it when seers are so cheap. Personal opinion though.

As a marine player, I find the suncannon to be a bit weak for the points when taking it on.