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I've played 40k since 2000, but I've always wanted to get a fantasy army, but where my likes and dislikes in 40K are clear. (Hooray Red Corsairs, Blood Angels, Orcs, IG, Eldar (of all flavors) and Boo Hiss: Grey Knights and Necrons) My biggest issue with fantasy is there is something in EVERY army I like. But I really only have time to invest into one. I tried the Battle for Skull Pass set, but I'm not that nuts about goblins (at least on their own.) and while I LOVE the guns and cannons and axe to the faceness of dwarves, the set...I dunno I'm just not liking the snap together mono poses. So I ended up selling or trading everything but the rulebook and scenery bits.

So I was hoping for a little help for choosing an army (and sticking with it) in this new generation. Something around 2000K points seems to be average in the size I want.

But these are my issues:
1. I'm not crazy about mono pose models I'll take them if nothing else is available but I prefer customization.
2. My shelf space is getting limited so a 200+ model army is not going to be easy for me to have on hand. (Though in all likely hood I might be selling or trading a 40K army here in the future.)
3. I'm love fantasy's monsters and 'hero' level stuff.
4. I kinda need the new rules. And want an army that isn't going to need a new book in a few months.

Narrowing stuff down a bit the armies I really like are Bretonnia, High Elves, Skaven, Vampire Counts

Now the Brets:
Pros:
I have a damsel on foot and one mounted (both I picked up for D&D purposes but hey they can still be used)
I love heavy cavalry and knights charging into the fray backed up by trebuchets and peasants.
The King and the Green Knight are wicked cool.

Cons:
Don't seem to have many players so wondering if they are a 'good' army
Heard they are being updated soon, which means 'sigh' shell out for a new army book.

High Elves:
Pros:
I have Prince Imrik and his dragon
The first models I ever painted was 4 spearmen and 4 archers box so I have some...sentimental attachment to the army
Griffons! Dragons! Eagles! Chariots pulled by Lions! Korhil's Model
Island of Blood might make it easy to get pieces.

Cons:
Hear they are hard to play
IoB pieces look like those snap mono poses.
Their helms are the dumbest things ever.

Skaven:
Pros:
Rats are cool. Plus Rat Ogres, Hellpit Abomination and other warped monsters
Stormvermin, Jezzails and warp tech weapons are awesome.
Coolest 'bad guy' army in Fantasy (IMHO)
IoB models

Cons:
I'm not sure how I feel about having to gets tons, and tons of models on the field. Plus I have a hard time with watching my IG squads die, let alone cool rat people. And dying in droves...T-T
Seems to have some randomness in it that might backfire.

Vampire Counts:
Pros:
Again Monsters! (Though the old dire wolf models are a 1000 times better then the new ones) But Varghulfs are so cool.
Can bring units back to (un)life and make more as the fight goes on.

Cons:
Skeletons and zombies are cool but the actual 'vampires' are boring expect Vlad's model, Blood Knights and Lahmians
Seem to be quite pricy

As an Unrepentant Apologist for WoC, they fitnperfectly - different poses, even your core are hero level, not too many models and the best range of monsters out there.
Elves are smug, Brets are weird formations, Skaven need a new book and Vamps are ew, dull and need loads of skellies / zombies.

Come to the light and celebrate CHAOS!!!!

Hmmm I do admit the Chimera, Manticore, Dragon Ogre, and basic Warriors and Chaos Knights are awesome.

The Sigvald model is cool too. I really haven't given Slaanesh his due in recent times.

Don't forget skullcrushers, shaggoths, chariotsnpulledbby gorebeasts, dragon, giants...

Okay so with what I like what's a good start? (i.e. what goes into my trade list, along with WoC book, and mini rulebook)

I think a 2000ish point range is what most people play. So around 2K with some options.

Also is Sigvald any good? His model is easily my favorite of the foot heroes. That and plenty of monsters.

WoC Chariots are super fun to play, especially with the marks. I've never actually used Sigvald, but he's always wanted to. I would recommend getting some chaos hounds, some warriors w/ halberds, and any other cool models you may like. I just highly recommend a chariot or two to start. Chimeras are super fun time as well.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Okay so with what I like what's a good start? (i.e. what goes into my trade list, along with WoC book, and mini rulebook)

I think a 2000ish point range is what most people play. So around 2K with some options.

Also is Sigvald any good? His model is easily my favorite of the foot heroes. That and plenty of monsters.

Yaaaaaay, WoC! Definitely sounds exactly what you want from what you've said.

Your shopping list should include 20-30 warriors and two chimeras if you like the models. They're fantastic in game as well. Give them regen 100% and they can take a bit of punishment, and once they get into combat the killing starts. Warriors are ridiculously good core, and you can kit them out in a few different ways. Khorne with halberds, Nurgle with AHW/Halberds/GW, or Tzeentch with Shields. Just remember they'll be a bit slower, so getting a big, solid block and giving them the Banner of Swiftness will help them keep up with the rest of your army (which is shaping up to be pretty quick!).

You could take a look at the Daemon Prince. He's borderline broken good, and he certainly fits the Hero and Monster thing all in one when you kit him out. Seems like something you'd enjoy as your lord choice.

Chaos Knights are good, but Skullcrushers are strictly better than MoK knights. Still, it's hard to go wrong with knights, and they're certainly solid. You can mark them up with Nurgle to make them hilariously hard to kill in combat, mark with Tzeentch and give them the Blasted Standard to slap aside cannonballs, or you can try Khorne if you want a little more killy... but again, Skullcrushers are better for that particular role. Short version, if you like knights, get ten or so on your shopping list. That should be plenty for you to play around with.

If you like Dragon Ogres, they're not bad. They're just a little squishy. A unit of 3 can be pretty beastly on its own.

Sadly Manticores are not that great of a choice. They're not bad, mind you, but they're really not all that great as they die super easy to anyone that actually targets them. If you want to tool up your lord into a combat monster, look at the Daemon Prince instead.

That being said, the only 'bad' choices in the book as far as I'm concerned are marauders and the Slaughterbrute.

Sigvald is... okay? Mark of Slaanesh is pretty weak compared to the others, unfortunately, so I've never really seriously looked at him.

Lastly, pick up some Chaos Warhounds. Get 15 of them. They're stupidly useful for WoC and super cheap on points. Spending 90 points on 3 units of 5 naked hounds at 2k will help you out a lot in the long run when you learn to use them.

You seem to be looking for more-expensive-per model stuff, but remember that WHFB puts things into tightly-contained blocks.

200 miniatures on 20mm square bases take up less than one square foot. That's hardly going to be a strain on space.

Well looks more and more like Chaos is my calling then, if anyone has the books I got tons to trade for them.

I wouldn't recommand WoC on the simple fact that they represent about 25% of the armies being played, so it gets old very very fast ...
But to be honest, the real issue is that all WoC armies look kinda the same
- Nurgle Flying Prince of d00m
- 3++ flying BSB rerolling 1s on Wards
- Secondary Wizard (usually Death) with scroll
- Halberd Nurgle Warrior block
- Chariots of Nurgle / Khorne
- Chimera(s)
- Skullcrushers
Sprinkle some support units or add Throgg and replace Core with Trolls

that will be about 80% of the WoC armies, they all feel the exact same, which means that when you create another army with some competitivness in mind, you HAVE to take the tools to take down at least the Flying Prince, otherwise you won't go far in any tournament

NNNnnnnooooOOooOooo. Not another bloody Warriors player.

Seriously, I am SO sick of facing that army. Like TanKoL, every single bloody WoC army looks exactly the bloody same.

Sure the player might SAY their army is different, but it's not. They'll shuffle the marks around, take more characters or less, and maybe give the demon prince a SLIGHTLY different load out. But that's it.

Chaos are the Ultramarines of WHFB. They're bland and overplayed, and everyone is sick of playing against them.


The rest of your armies are more interesting, though.

Bretonnians are a really old book, and not as flashy as the rest. Being so old their list has some shortcomings that comes with being written for rules two editions out of date. However they're pretty much 2+ saves army wide, have a 5++ against S5 or greater (i.e. anything that can actually hurt your knights). Trebuchets are awesome, and they have access to some of the better lores of magic (Life, Heavens, and Beasts). They require deft hands to win games, but you'll get better real quickly behind the helm of them. You'll have to.

High Elves are the new kids in town, and their book has some VERY strong builds. However, there's enough good stuff in their book that you can get some variety in there as well.

Skaven are awesome, and damned near broken for certain builds. They're last of the broken 7th books, and as a result are pretty high on the power curve. That said, there's a lot of unpredictability in the army and sometimes games will just go completely south on you. Add that to the fact that you have to paint hundreds and hundreds of models and you can see why people shy away from this army.

Vampire Counts are a really cool army, with lots of variety. They're a VERY powerful army, but also very rock-paper-scissors. They often win big or lose big, with not much in between. Vampire lords are absolutely fantastic in combat, but don't feel like you NEED to take one! Wight lords are great as well, and can go very well with a cool skeleton theme. There are also some great third-party miniature companies that put out some great vampire models, if you look.

Also the VC models that you mentioned disliking? Yeah, you totally don't need to take any of those. There are SO many great choices in the VC book and almost all of them are great. There's also so many different builds for the army. I'd recommend VC over WoC any day.

I too am starting to get a little fed up of the numerous WOC armies out there.

Sure they can are a cool looking army which has varied options on the table etc. but so many people play them so it gets kinda boring seeing them on the opposite side of the table so much (I know of at least 5 people with WOC armies).

I don't want to knock you if they are your army choice but have you considered others? Dark Elves and Lizardmen are the two most recent army books and I think both of them can put out armies with small model counts.

Plus like someone else said, because of how they are ranked up, units in WFB don't take up huge amounts of room anyway.

Or how about Ogres? They have a lot of similar characteristics to Chaos Warriors (minus the heavy armour), plus I don't think they are as widely played and in my opinion are a more rounded army as they can take part in shooting, combat and magic, while the only shooting the WOC have IIRC is the hellcannon and marauders with throwing axes.

Yes, I do have an Ogre army in case you were wondering! I got into them about a year ago and they are a fun army to play. Plus they have probably the nastiest cannon in Warhammer which is nice!

I'd say go VC's or Daemons over WoC any day of the week...

VC's have what is easily the most balanced book right now and while you can do some very stupidly powerful things, (all books can), they're not exactly breaking the game or causing enormous butthurt.
It's also an army that calls for lots of synergy between your characters & unit interactions and magic phases. Plus those characters are some of the most customisable in the entire game with their vampire powers & magic items.
There's also plenty of room for theming your army, with the option to highlight one of 5 main vampire 'families', a necromancer's shambling host (lots of gross things + Zombies!!!), army of the barrows (wight-heavy), ethereal host, etc... Only High Elves & Empire share that level of build variety.



Daemons right may have the most clusterfethed, dysfunctional mess of a book right now, but at the very least, it's got even more conversion options than Warriors AND gives you a 40k at the same time, making it highly economical!
And as bad as the internal balances are, they still have one of the most beatstick army lists going right now for more hard-core tournament play, as Beasts of Nurgle are the head-and-shoulders best unit in the game, Plaguebearers are amazingly resilient Core and Epidemius is stupidly broken. (even more so than Alarielle the Everqueen of the HE's, which is really saying something!)

At the very least, going for a Khorne or Tzeentch themed list will likely earn you brownie pts among other Fantasy players as there's almost nothing that's obnoxious about them besides the Skullcannon & Fateweaver. (and in a mono-list, those options simply make your list 'average' rather than TFG)

B-b-but my army is a unique snowflake!

...yeah, a lot of WOC armies are the same. I started drifting towards 'the list' myself without really doing a lot of research, then when I started looking at other lists I realized how similar mine was. I could probably improve it further based on what I've seen (I don't use chimeras), but I like where it's at. Even if I'm unique like everyone else, I still love them. I'm not apologizing. <3

TanKoL wrote:
I wouldn't recommand WoC on the simple fact that they represent about 25% of the armies being played, so it gets old very very fast ...
But to be honest, the real issue is that all WoC armies look kinda the same
- Nurgle Flying Prince of d00m
- 3++ flying BSB rerolling 1s on Wards
- Secondary Wizard (usually Death) with scroll
- Halberd Nurgle Warrior block
- Chariots of Nurgle / Khorne
- Chimera(s)
- Skullcrushers
Sprinkle some support units or add Throgg and replace Core with Trolls

that will be about 80% of the WoC armies, they all feel the exact same, which means that when you create another army with some competitivness in mind, you HAVE to take the tools to take down at least the Flying Prince, otherwise you won't go far in any tournament

Would it help if I said out of all the Chaos Gods I loathe Nurgle?

Sure it can help yes
a thematic WoC army is much more "fun" and interesting than the "vanilla" that everyone uses
a friend plays Tzeench and them only (in 40K as well) when he's using Chaos of any kind
Lots of people recommanded him to use "SoulCrushers" (basically scratch build Tzeench-themed Skullcrushers) and he refused because he feels that Tzeench wouldn't approve of such a blatant and unsubtle treachery
In his defense, the one time he took an non-aligned sorcerer to have acces to Death magic, the dice hammered him so bad during that game that he promptly marked the guy again

He's also switching from a Flying Prince to a mounted Lord/Sorcerer Lord because he despises having that charmed shield / dragonbane / striking / soul feeding Daemon Prince that everyone has (even though it was a Tzeench one)

I always enjoy my games against him, because they're not "that" WoC army

I've gotta throw in a mention for dwarfs here, now that you mentioned how you did like them.

I'll admit that these things have a few "problems" depending on where you play and what your plans are. If you're forced to play GW, then they are not an option, and they are monoposable..

But Scibor's line of dwarf warriors are simply amazing to flesh out a dwarf army with. If I were to start a dwarf army, I'd build it around the scibor models and flesh it out with gw.

Hey! You gave us a list and then most people ignored it!

Brets are an old army and badly in need of an update. They don't have much flexibility in build and the book is 2 editions out of date. They are awesome though. (Plus you can build them cheaply using historicals like Fireforge and Conquest games).

High Elves suffer from having fugly core but they have a cool new book. The stupid helmets aren't going anywhere though. IoB models are monopose, for sure.

Skaven IoB are also monopose, but honestly, when you're making a million of the buggers and they have to rank up, that's a blessing! Skaven tend to be a "win big, lose big" kind of army. Sometimes you'll curbstomp opponents and other times your stuff will blow up and your rats will flee due to leadership rolls. They are also a giant horde army, of course. And their army book is out of date.

VC have a current edition rule book and a lot of different options for builds. Stuff like Blood Knights are EXTREMELY overpriced, however if you're not fussy or don't play in a GW, Mantic's undead can significantly cut down your expenses. Mantic are hit and miss but their undead are a really strong range, and their zombies and ghouls are to me better than GWs. I made my army really cheaply with mantic for the core blocks of skellies, ghouls and zombies and then used GW plastic and finecast characters for my leaders with plastic black knights rounding it out. The mantic undead battalion gets you 20 "Revenants" (grave gaurd, although you'll want to convert them to have great weapons), 40 Skeletons, 20 Ghouls and 30 Zombies for £50! It's a friggin bargain.

Links for models:
Undead:
http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/undead/product/undead-army-set-110-figures.html

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/kings-of-war/undead/product/undead-elites-army-set-includes-cavalry.html

Brets:
http://www.conquest-games.co.uk/index.php?cPath=22_34_35
http://www.conquest-games.co.uk/index.php?cPath=22_23_25

http://www.fireforge-games.com/

I would just add for the historical ranges the Perry Brothers range. Loads of metal but some gorgeous plastic
Cavalry, looks a bit more Empire than Bret though
Late Infantry (crossbows and handguns + melee) and Not so late infantry (longbows + melee)
Plus if you look a bit around, you'll find some websites that do "battle hardened" decals that are designed to fit perfectly on models from various ranges

 Purifier wrote:
I've gotta throw in a mention for dwarfs here, now that you mentioned how you did like them.

I'll admit that these things have a few "problems" depending on where you play and what your plans are. If you're forced to play GW, then they are not an option, and they are monoposable..

But Scibor's line of dwarf warriors are simply amazing to flesh out a dwarf army with. If I were to start a dwarf army, I'd build it around the scibor models and flesh it out with gw.

I'm shocked to see you link Scibor Dwarves without mentioning MOTHER fething BEAR CAVALRY.

That's right...BEAR CAVALRY.

I don't care if dwarves can't use them. You're getting a new book next year, so MAYBE you can use them then, and they look fething awesome. But it doesn't even matter. Bear cavalry.

It's true, I've seen them.

 Evertras wrote:
It's true, I've seen them.

Spoiler:

This post while funny became even more amusing as I imagined how long you've been waiting for the right time to use it.

rohansoldier wrote: I don't want to knock you if they are your army choice but have you considered others? Dark Elves and Lizardmen are the two most recent army books and I think both of them can put out armies with small model counts.

Or how about Ogres? They have a lot of similar characteristics to Chaos Warriors (minus the heavy armour), plus I don't think they are as widely played and in my opinion are a more rounded army as they can take part in shooting, combat and magic, while the only shooting the WOC have IIRC is the hellcannon and marauders with throwing axes.

Yes, I do have an Ogre army in case you were wondering! I got into them about a year ago and they are a fun army to play. Plus they have probably the nastiest cannon in Warhammer which is nice!

Well I have a Dark Eldar army in 40K and while fun and easily the most beautiful army I've ever done, the 'dark elf' thing has run it's course in me. (I did the army as space drow, with lots of D&D nods, I have tons of novels about a certain dual scimitar wielding and the other not so nice drow and his assassin companion...needless to say if I did Dark Elves, it'd be a retread of the drow theme as to me dark elves should...you know be...dark. The big draws of the D. Elves is the Cold One knights and the War Hydra but after that, it's mostly meh. The other thing is I have a box of warriors, that I got as a gift.

I did 'start' an Ogre army but I lost interest in the fluff. The Leadbelchers are the single biggest draw IMHO. Plus IIRC don't they have some 'mercenary' rule thingamajig? Cause I'd put Leadbelchers in an army if the opportunity arose.

As far as the alternate models from Mantic and such I'm not a 100% purest GW, but I like to keep it GW mostly and slip in some 3rd party stuff for uniqueness. (Hell I sold them but my Orks army for 40K had G.I.Joe weapons on the vehicles so they could actually 'fire' rockets at the other guy's army)

So updating this a bit. I have chosen Skaven...I have what I think is a good start but zero idea on what to do now. I put up an army list, but sans feedback, I have no idea.