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Hi Dakka,

I'm having some problems with effectively running a Daemon Prince in my lists.
So far I've run them with;

a) MoK, Wings & Power Armour and the Axe of Blind Fury. Assault anything within range.

or b) MoS, Wings & Power Armour, Sorc Lvl3 (1 on Slaanesh, 2 on Biomancy), The Black Mace. Circle above, Vector Strike things, cast whatever blessings you've got from Slaanesh and Biomancy and Assault where plausible.

In both cases my main problem is that the either Daemon massacres everything I throw it up against, is left standing in open ground to be shot to death OR the Daemon cannot Assault due to the said problem, circles above too much to eventually get snap shotted to death (no matter how slowly).

The Slaaneshi Daemon probably lacks sufficient firepower to be of any real use when swooping around, so running a Tzeentch Daemon with the Burning Brand of Skalathrax comes to mind immediately. Has anyone tried this, is it worth trying? What kit did you field?

How do you use your Daemon Princes?

The best way to use a Daemon Prince is to ally one in from the CD codex because they tend to be a lot better.

Otherwise I run a Daemon of Tzeentch, Black Mace, WIngs and Power Armour 265pts of total destruction. There is not a single unit in the game that has survived more than 2 combat phases against it.

perhaps your DP is being left unsupported? Is he flying ahead and assaulting asap? If that's the case maybe vector strike until you can pose multiple threats after the DP combat.

anyways, your probably just running across guys that realize how destructive and awesome he is, and they target apporpriately.

Or you could just try a naked biomancy DP of nurgle?

welshhoppo wrote:
The best way to use a Daemon Prince is to ally one in from the CD codex because they tend to be a lot better.

Otherwise I run a Daemon of Tzeentch, Black Mace, WIngs and Power Armour 265pts of total destruction. There is not a single unit in the game that has survived more than 2 combat phases against it.

I would talk to the swarmlord about this... He'll take a DP without eternal warrior any day of the week.

If the swarm lord wins in the first or second round his comment is still valid.

OK then, new question: Which unit best supports a DP? Raptors? Deep Strike Terminators?

There is no best build out of DPs in 6th edition. While they have have their own benefits, they pretty much all suffer from the same drawbacks. I personally think they are too easy to kill and only take them when I am using the Black Legion supplement, the artefacts there make up for some of those drawbacks.

To answer the second question, the best support for a DP I have found for DPs is bikes. They often present the bigger threat that can draw fire away from DPs and give them a chance to do something.

The second best support for a DP I have found is spawn. They present a similar threat to that of bikes but seem to be harder to kill. The problem with spawn is they can't get melta weapons, meaning they have a hard time with vehicles.

 cbteom wrote:
Hi Dakka,

I'm having some problems with effectively running a Daemon Prince

Have you tried running them looking awesome with a smart paint job weighing down some paper on the corner of your desk. The finecast ones don't work so well, but man, the old metal ones are boss.

I second the Chaos Bikes idea.

Basically anything that can maybe keep up with the Daemon Prince or draw fire. Team him up with a Hell Turkey, Chaos Bikes, and you have a pretty scary vanguard. Back that up with shooty elements and you have a pretty scary force.

I used to take a list with a kitted prince, troops in rhinos, melta/flamer raptors, forgefiends, plasma havocs in rhinos, and a bike lord with melta bikes.

Everything rushes forward first turn, everything in their face second turn. Didn't do quite so hot against hordes, but handled gunlines pretty well.

If your prince rushes forward without support, obviously they're gonna get the biggest target in range. If multiple units are about to get in their grill, that makes target priority a little more tricky.

If your MC will kill a unit in your assault phase then "smash" and half the number of attacks. Then you can kill the unit in your opponents turn and be free to bounce into another combat.

Wilshhoppo is spot on, I think.
When you spend so many points on offense on a CC unit you need to also make sure it gets into CC. Power armor, wings, and MoTz accomplish this. Vindicators heldrakes spawn bikers and DeepStrike termimes draw fire nicely. Do not let your DP be alone in the open.
While the psyker levels are nice, you waste one completely on the god your DP is associated with, and unless you buy a spell familiar, you have a decent chance of failing a spell. All the while, your CC DP is getting more and more expensive.
The thing about DPs is that you can kit them out with way more offense than defense, and they can die without utilizing all of their offensive power. Keep them under 270 points is my advice.
Burning Brand of skalathrax is great because it gives great anti MEQ attacks to a very cheap unit like a chaos lord that you can stick in a rhino opening or a bike. Sticking that artifact on an expensive unit like a DP is a waste in my opinion.
Hope this helped, happy wargaming!

I've got a few demon prince compositions.
1: EXTRA TRYHARD- Tzeentch Prince with wings, power armour,black mace. I could also throw a sigil of corruption for a 3++ (MoT) and 3+. Like this, your prince can only be wounded on 2's, rerolls on 1 if it does go through and the reroll would result in a wound on 1 or 2. More or less it is an unkillable beast with a cursed AP2 mace.
2: TROLL PRINCE - A prince of your choice, wings and with a burning brand of skalathrax. Slap that HQ with one or two heldrakes and turn the skies into a field of fire. Watch your weebo space marines flee and cower in the sight of your low AP flamers.
3: Nurgle Prince with iron arm (daemons would work better than CSM on this) and slap options as deemed suitable. Iron arm D3 extra strength can turn the prince into S10 T10. almost unkillable machine. I would recommend power armour/warp forged armour and wings on this. Another unkillable engine in your almost cheesed to the fullest army.

 theflyingarrow wrote:
I've got a few demon prince compositions.
1: EXTRA TRYHARD- Tzeentch Prince with wings, power armour,black mace. I could also throw a sigil of corruption for a 3++ (MoT) and 3+. Like this, your prince can only be wounded on 2's, rerolls on 1 if it does go through and the reroll would result in a wound on 1 or 2. More or less it is an unkillable beast with a cursed AP2 mace.
2: TROLL PRINCE - A prince of your choice, wings and with a burning brand of skalathrax. Slap that HQ with one or two heldrakes and turn the skies into a field of fire. Watch your weebo space marines flee and cower in the sight of your low AP flamers.
3: Nurgle Prince with iron arm (daemons would work better than CSM on this) and slap options as deemed suitable. Iron arm D3 extra strength can turn the prince into S10 T10. almost unkillable machine. I would recommend power armour/warp forged armour and wings on this. Another unkillable engine in your almost cheesed to the fullest army.

This isn't how it works. DoT princes don't get +1 to invulnerable saves, they reroll rolls of a 1.

Besides that BBoS would work well on a winged prince, but I personally think it would just be a very expensive heldrake- why throw the points away?
My personal preference for mark of god for a prince is DoT- that psychic power you roll on can result in boon of mutation (boon table for DP? AWESOME), or doombolt (yay my DP can at least shoot one weapon). If you make the DP mastery level three roll on biomancy and hopefully you get iron arm, *life leech*, or endurance. I also think that GoM, if bought for anything, is worth it for the DP. Mind you this would be one expensive DP which is not the best, but hey, DP's aren't the most competitive choice to be honest. Wings, PA, Black mace all needed

 cbteom wrote:
OK then, new question: Which unit best supports a DP?

Another Daemon Prince. I can't think of anything in your codex that I'd rather shoot at than a daemon prince, so why not add another one? Allying with Codex: Chaos Daemons is a great way to do this.

The best way to run one is with wings, he's hard to hit and yet can still hide in terrain and benefit from cover. I usually see Nurgle princes, because they get shrouded. Now you hit the flying prince on a 6, and if he happens to be in ruins he gets a 2+ cover save. If you ground him, he's not going to get insta-gibbed by S9.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 cbteom wrote:
OK then, new question: Which unit best supports a DP?

Another Daemon Prince. I can't think of anything in your codex that I'd rather shoot at than a daemon prince, so why not add another one? Allying with Codex: Chaos Daemons is a great way to do this.

The best way to run one is with wings, he's hard to hit and yet can still hide in terrain and benefit from cover. I usually see Nurgle princes, because they get shrouded. Now you hit the flying prince on a 6, and if he happens to be in ruins he gets a 2+ cover save. If you ground him, he's not going to get insta-gibbed by S9.

Nurgle princes dont get +1 T like they used too, but they are T5 off the bat.

This isn't how it works. DoT princes don't get +1 to invulnerable saves, they reroll rolls of a 1.

Mark of Tzeentch in the CSM codex offers a +1 to invulnerable saves to any unit that has it. ie: thousand sons has AODG plus MoT. They have 5++ plus +1 which makes their invul ++4 cos of mark of tzeentch. Search it up.

 theflyingarrow wrote:
Mark of Tzeentch in the CSM codex offers a +1 to invulnerable saves to any unit that has it. ie: thousand sons has AODG plus MoT. They have 5++ plus +1 which makes their invul ++4 cos of mark of tzeentch. Search it up.

Daemon Princes do not have the Mark of Tzeentch special rule though, they have the Daemon of Tzeentch special rule, which allows them to re-roll all 1s when rolling saves. Search it up.

it was interest to read and follow this topic for a while...

since I have Daemon Prince because I want it, unable to find correct role for this character yet because "shoot me first" label on their forehead. and it was true that they die easy compare to other monster creature.

so far my tactic is keep daemon prince as back-up until it summon up to the board for free, all I do is hope to hit dark apotheosis in chaos boon table. with my luck, then one of my model will transform into daemon prince.

 Mushkilla wrote:

 theflyingarrow wrote:
Mark of Tzeentch in the CSM codex offers a +1 to invulnerable saves to any unit that has it. ie: thousand sons has AODG plus MoT. They have 5++ plus +1 which makes their invul ++4 cos of mark of tzeentch. Search it up.

Daemon Princes do not have the Mark of Tzeentch special rule though, they have the Daemon of Tzeentch special rule, which allows them to re-roll all 1s when rolling saves. Search it up.

For the record: This is correct.

Daemon Princes are upgraded to Daemons of _Chaos_God. They do not have Marks of Chaos. Which, tbh, Daemon Prince of Tzeentch still gets a 4++ which is pretty awesome, and that re-roll on 1 which is even better in my book. In some way that maybe only I believe, it's like having the same thing. I'd rather have a re-roll than the + any day. Also, through Ascension, Daemon Princes do not keep their marks unless they are the Warlord. They don't keep their equipment either. Barebones. @.@

One of the reasons I'm kind of glad I have only hit Dark Apotheosis maybe 1 time. Also, Daemon Princes in the Daemons Codex are also different.

For example, Daemons Prince of Tzeentch gets +3 Ld on manifesting Psyker abilities and the re-roll for 1's.

Fun fact: Another difference between the two could be said that Marine Daemon Princes have Wings and Daemons Daemon Princes do not. They have "daemonic flight."

No. Daemon Prince of Tzeentch has a 5++ with re-roll on 1.

No. Daemon Prince does not have access to the sigil of corruption.

Dp tzeench wings BM amr.
Add bikes MoN
Add dsing Oblits MoN
Add Huron for infiltrate
take 2 20 man MoK squads

Cool list at 15kish

WangoFett wrote:
No. Daemon Prince of Tzeentch has a 5++ with re-roll on 1.

No. Daemon Prince does not have access to the sigil of corruption.

WangoFett wrote:
No. Daemon Prince of Tzeentch has a 5++ with re-roll on 1.

No. Daemon Prince does not have access to the sigil of corruption.

I'll have to check again, but I'm sure you are right. I know that Daemons DP gets access to 50 points of Gifts. Thought for sure CSM Daemon Prince had access to wargear too. Going to look over my books again. @.@

TheRedWingArmada wrote:

WangoFett wrote:
No. Daemon Prince of Tzeentch has a 5++ with re-roll on 1.

No. Daemon Prince does not have access to the sigil of corruption.

I'll have to check again, but I'm sure you are right. I know that Daemons DP gets access to 50 points of Gifts. Thought for sure CSM Daemon Prince had access to wargear too. Going to look over my books again. @.@

the sigil is in the "special issue wargear" section which they do not have access to. O man if they did, the other options there are Blight grenades(yay grenades!) Chaos Bike(woooo+1toughness and 12" move)

I would kill for a nurgle prince on a bike with blight grenades and black mace.

BMC (Bike Monsterous Creature) would be so much better than FMC

you move, 3+ cover save. Enemy is within 8", 2+ cover save(stealth from defensive grenades) T6. OMG the fun.

A Daemon Prince can inflict damage each phase of the game:

Beginning of a turn - cast maledictions
Movement phase - vector strike
Shooting phase - cast Witchfire
Assault phase - best phase

So the trick is to maximize what they can do.

Is it best to start a winged prince on the board so he can't suffer bad reserves rolls?

Here's an extremely expensive BL DP that you should only use for fun, definitely not competitive by any standards...

Daemon prince (last memory, spineshiver blade, GoM, spell familiar, DoT, 3 masteries, skull of kerngr, wings, armor)- 420 points

The DP can fly, a buttload of attacks, is mastery level 4, eternal warrior, and automatically has a nova spell that does 2D6 hits to a unit.

Just to be clear - this guy would have a 4+ invulnerable save, rerolling ones? And eternal warrior and +1 to psychic tests?

 rubicant99 wrote:
Is it best to start a winged prince on the board so he can't suffer bad reserves rolls?

Yes. Preferably behind a piece of LOS obscuring terrain that he can move over when he moves anyway.