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Ok I'm going to try to keep this simple.

The idea here is to tweak certain armies to make them fit 30k, this is not intended to "balance" them with the legion armies but to bring them in line with the fluff a little bit.

Orks


Stat changes/unit changes.


Ork boyz units are now 10-50 in size (shoota and slugga)
Nobz are now 5-15, if taking bikes 5-10, mega Nobz are unchanged
Lootas are now 10-20 and are 20pts each, but gain the ultimate dakka rule:
Ultimate dakka: once per game one unit of lootas May fire twice, if they do so they may not fire in the next game turn (this includes overwatch)
Burnas are 10-20, and may take a Burna nob for 10pts, this does not replace the Mek option.

All Orks have the feel no pain 6+ Special rule, disk tools add+1 to this, this replaces the doks tools special rules in codex Orks.
All Orks receive +1 str and I across the board.
Ork boys +1pt each (to keep hoard feel)
Nobz +5pts each
Warboss 100pts basic, 1-3 per hq

New unit type
warlord: 150 0-1 Lord of waaaagh
Ws7
Bs3
S6
T6
W5
I5
A5
Ld10
Sv4+/5++
Options: as per warboss, May not take bike
Special rules: bulky, fearless, smash, eternal warrior, Lord if the big waaagh.
"Lord of the big waagh" as per ghazghuls waagh, May be used twice per game.

May take up to one of the following big names:
Da eata of worlds 50pts: any rolls of 6 to wound cause instant, death, May take nobs as troops.
Da face beate 40pts: the warlord and his unit have the rampage special rule, 0-1 for are boys removed.
Da blazing sun: may take burnas instead of big shootas where applicable, for the same cost, May take Burma boys as troops, Burma boys may take a trukk at the normal cost

So this is it so far, should be a challenge for a legion I hope haha



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit, wrong stats, forgot to add the attack stat



Survivors of old night.

Codex tau or imperial guard.

Codex tau changes.
No units can take markerlights
Battlesuits are 0-3 of any type (xv8-xv106 etc.)
All battlesuit with jet packs lose the jsj move
All str5 weapons are reduced by 1 str

Stat changes All "infantry" gain +1 I and +1 ws, does not include any kind of battlesuit
all elite gain +1 ws +1 bs for 5pts each
battlesuits (xv8/88) that can take plasma rifles may take volkite culverins for the same cost

Mo're coming, please make suggestions

I'm listning, you have my attention Have you got any ideas for the other Xenos races?

Good, but I'd recommend upping the number of boys in a unit. Perhaps 10-40? Again, normal points for the base 10 but then cheaper additional guys.

One thing I'm thinking about is if the warboss takes a big choppa. Now he's strength 8, AP 2 with 5 attacks at initiative 5. That's incredibly powerful.

Other than that I like the idea and it would be cool to see it expanded.

Interested with the force of a billion exploding suns

Theres exactly one guy around here who plays 30k, I'd absolutely love to be able to pit my boys against his 30k marine horde

Only thing is, fluff wise, of all the factions Orks are the only one that would be exactly 0% different between 30k and 40k...

Actually, Orks in 30k were more organized and the leaders grew to colossal size compared to 40k. I think they also held empires more then than they do now, and Waaghs were larger then.

@ patman: the warlord is a Lord of war choice and comparable to a primarch, just without all the fancy gear they get, so yes he will be powerful, but should be easy work one on one...relatively.

@dakkamite: 30k Orks are very different to current Orks, they were larger and better organised (for Orks), with nobs (so far only one reference) being the size of dreads, hence t5 nobs, they also had better tech and this is why I added the upgrades to the warlord to allow other units.

@jiffel: bloody good idea old chap, added.

@alex: yes I want to do eldar next, they are quite easy to be fair, but expodites May be a tad more difficult, I will also be doing a sort of "variable"xenos race too, so silicoids, insectoids etc.
Also for shiggles I will be useing the tau dex to allow advanced human forces.

Please add any ideas you chaps have to help, thanks

I'm not really sure how you would change Eldar to 30K. Since the Fall happened well before that, by the time 30K hit they were pretty much already in decline. The only real difference is that there would be more of them.

What? Different Orks? How and why? Where can I find the fluff?

Oddly happyjew, there would be less.

The fall had only happened a few centuries prior to the great crusade and they were recovering still, modern eldar have had 10k years of population growth and even as slow as that is for eldar there would be more now that then, makes sense logically.

But I do see what you mean, my changes are along the line of minor stat changes and limitations on aspect warriors/allies and such things, but more relics and a few very rare pre fall tech like psy weapons and eldar war robot (not wraiths)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakkamite: horus heresy book 1 betrayal, the fluff is in the pre heresy part and the sons of horus notable battles, also in fear totread, brothers of the storm and a little in massacre if I remember correctly.

 Formosa wrote:
The fall had only happened a few centuries prior to the great crusade.

Did not realize that. I probably should pay more attention to my own codex. Specifically the part where it says that the Fall was c.M31 and then the very next entry in the timeline (also c.M31) talks about the Great crusade.

I have to say that I definitely like the idea of making 30 K Xenos so I'd like to add in my input!

First of all I think it would be good to make the armies like the Legion list so that means that it encourages big squads as opposed to multiple small units.

For instance I believe that the minimum work squad size should be 15 or 20 and it can go up to 50 orcs.

If we go with a squad of 20, The base point cost should be 160.
And I know that you're balking at this but do not fret! This is because you can purchase up to 30 additional orcs for four points per model.

And personally I wouldn't give them increased strength or initiative but I do think that you could give them a 6+ feel no pain very easily.
Definitely make scar boys an option which would give them that plus one initiative and plus one strength.

One rule I'd like to see is +1S, rending, shred or some such bonus for Orks with choppas. Currently they're just so crap compared to their shooty counterparts.

I'm not very familiar with 30k, but my understanding is that its more powerful than 40k? It'd need to be a fair bit more powerful to justify mobs of 50 boyz, unless mob rule is changed somehow that would be ridiculously powerful

Army lust wise 30k is less powerfull than 40k, but 30k does get cooler stuff but at the cost if less flexibility, tacticals for example. Can't take a heavy or a Special, just bolter and up to 10 more marines, they also get the old blade storm ability (pretty much the same) so could easily gun down that 50 man unit

Ok New update nearly done, adding old night advanced tech humans.

I don't mind most of it, but why do all Orks get +1 S and I. Seems a little over the top making them WS4, S4/5, T4, I3, A2-4, and having 6+ FnP in close combat. I'm all for making warbosses bigger, but regular boyz should mostly remain the same.

Thanks for the comments buttons.

I have made boys bigger and tougher.. Because that's what they were, str 4 t4 with a 6+ save and 6+ fnp isn't all that good when you consider that a legion tactical squad can pop out a Max of 80 shots in one turn or God forbid you use any of the volkite and legion artillery available.

 Formosa wrote:
Oddly happyjew, there would be less.
The fall had only happened a few centuries prior to the great crusade and they were recovering still, modern eldar have had 10k years of population growth and even as slow as that is for eldar there would be more now that then, makes sense logically

There is no 'population growth' for the Eldar race. Their slow reproductive cycles mean that after the Fall they are declining in population because new Eldar being born cannot keep pace with the Eldar dying of natural and non-natural causes. So there would have been more.

 Formosa wrote:
Thanks for the comments buttons.

I have made boys bigger and tougher.. Because that's what they were, str 4 t4 with a 6+ save and 6+ fnp isn't all that good when you consider that a legion tactical squad can pop out a Max of 80 shots in one turn or God forbid you use any of the volkite and legion artillery available.

Have you actually played against the Legion list? I'm asking because the chance of a tactical squads firing 80 shots is incredibly difficult to actually pull off. This would mean that the entire tactical squad did not move and you're within rapidfire range of all 20 marines.

The best way to fix the problem is like I mentioned before of making orks cheaper but giving them a 6+ feel no pain. Then you have the option to upgrade them to skarboys and/or give them heavy armor for a 4+ save.

@vlad: Yes I have, and "can pop out a Max" is not a saying "you absolutely will do this every time!!!!", you mis read the statement. I saw what you suggested but disagreed, in my mind 30k Orks are tougher and stronger, supported by the fluff, so a buff

The sheer amount of ways a legion force can deal with Orks is amazing, this just levels them up a tad.

@faeyn: my apologies but your wrong, eldar 30k were millions strong post fall, smaller craftworlds and exodite worlds being crushed by the great crusade.

Bring on 40k and iyanden had billions on it (stupid Matt ward) craftworlds have grown to accommodate a larger pop.

But we're getting bogged down, what suggestions do you guys have for eldar and other factions, such as nids

 Formosa wrote:
@vlad: Yes I have, and "can pop out a Max" is not a saying "you absolutely will do this every time!!!!", you mis read the statement. I saw what you suggested but disagreed, in my mind 30k Orks are tougher and stronger, supported by the fluff, so a buff

The sheer amount of ways a legion force can deal with Orks is amazing, this just levels them up a tad.

Well of course not but the issue is that you're implying that one of the reasons why Orks are getting such huge boosts for only one additional point per model is the fact that there is even a small possibility.

The artillery isn't such a huge deal especially when you consider the fact that in normal 40 K space Marines can use guard artillery by allying with them. That's why I argued that you should make it so that mobs of orcs end up being cheaper in the long run kind of like the Legion tactical squad having marines being cheaper in the long run.

Anyway nids weren't really discovered yet but I think that in the same vein that Forge world is focusing more on first edition 40 K for inspiration I think that we should add in Exodites for the Eldar.

I think you again missed a point here vlad, nids were indeed not about yet, but several insectoid races were discovered and eradicated, the whole idea for this is to give 30k marines some other races to play and allow some fun conversions.

What if someone wants to play during the great crusade rather than the hh, then we can help edit and tweek the 40k codex's to allow this

Also consider its 10pts for a marine with 4 attacks on the charge (rage world eaters) or 10 pts for a marine that -1 str to all shooting, 7pts for a boy with str4/5 on the charge is not a bad thing.

Comparing the bs4 non open topped legion artillery to the hq, 1 troop choice and then the bs3 open topped artillery... Well need I go on?

I do appreciate your comments though

Hey
this is a great idea for a thread and im really interested to see what you come up with and help out if i can, im looking at running a Great Crusade campaign with my group of friends and this kind of thing therefore interests me

I have to say im with Vlad on the Orks, keep them the same but give them 6+ FNP for free and increase the max squad sizes etc.

and i dont think the eldar need any major changes.. i dont know much of the eldar fluff but they dont seem to have changed much in 10k years IIRC

some species that i see needing rules are the Laer, Hrud and megarachnids for a start.. cant think of anymore off the top of my head

megarachnids

Makes me think of



Can totally get behind that

Mega arachnids should be relatively simple, here is a few ideas

Codex tyranids

Options

May only take "warriors" as troops with 2 sets of bone swords, may only take a prime as hq with 2 sets of bone swords.

Heavy support may only be carnifex, has bio plasma for no extra cost, 2 sets of scy tals

May only take shrikes as fast attack

Stat and unit changes

All warriors/shrikes have +1 toughness for 5pts each, base cost of warriors/shrikes are 20pts each (before upgrade)

Prime may only take boneswords

Carnifex 120pts, brood is 1-6, May purchase a 2+ save for 30pts

All instinctive behavior and synapse rules are lost, instead all synapse creatures confer there ld (usually 10) to all megarachnid within 12", this also confers the stubborn rule


Rules for fighting on murder
Electric storm.
No deep striking is allowed, drop pods may still be used but will always scatter the full distance (use the small arrow on scatter dice)

Bio forests
a single mega nid unit may infiltrate into one of these Forrest following the usual rules for infiltration

All Forrests count as rolling "razorwing nest" on mysterious terrain table, mega nids are not affected by this

"there in the trees" all movement through any Forrest or difficult terrain rolls 1d6 less than normal (min 1d6)

Just a few simple ideas

My biggest problem with the nid codex is the swarm type nid army relys on gaunt spam which for their stats are in reality worth about 3 and a half points, and they nerfed our monstrous creatures hard enough with the latest codex to make nidzilla unviable. (Why oh why do 20 foot tall insectoid creatures with meter thick plating which is as hard as ceramite not have invulns or even a 2+ save?!?!?)

Lord of Lustria wrote:
My biggest problem with the nid codex is the swarm type nid army relys on gaunt spam which for their stats are in reality worth about 3 and a half points, and they nerfed our monstrous creatures hard enough with the latest codex to make nidzilla unviable. (Why oh why do 20 foot tall insectoid creatures with meter thick plating which is as hard as ceramite not have invulns or even a 2+ save?!?!?)

Gaunts are as good if not bettter then a guardsmen. MC loke swarmlord hive tyrant and tervigon got better by a lot. Heck tygons even got a.bit better with smash attacks and more ease with coming from reserves.

Tyranids got hit hard this edition. From Poison being either a set number or what you would normally roll To Wound (which ever is better) to the loss of Fearless wounds I don't see how Tyranids can be effective.

For those who don't want to run the $3000 tyranid list they did indeed get hit hard, playing a classic style nids list is out of the question now, their current incarnation is all about spamming $60 psycher models

 Formosa wrote:
Mega arachnids should be relatively simple, here is a few ideas

Codex tyranids

Options

May only take "warriors" as troops with 2 sets of bone swords, may only take a prime as hq with 2 sets of bone swords.

Heavy support may only be carnifex, has bio plasma for no extra cost, 2 sets of scy tals

May only take shrikes as fast attack

Stat and unit changes

All warriors/shrikes have +1 toughness for 5pts each, base cost of warriors/shrikes are 20pts each (before upgrade)

Prime may only take boneswords

Carnifex 120pts, brood is 1-6, May purchase a 2+ save for 30pts

All instinctive behavior and synapse rules are lost, instead all synapse creatures confer there ld (usually 10) to all megarachnid within 12", this also confers the stubborn rule


Rules for fighting on murder
Electric storm.
No deep striking is allowed, drop pods may still be used but will always scatter the full distance (use the small arrow on scatter dice)

Bio forests
a single mega nid unit may infiltrate into one of these Forrest following the usual rules for infiltration

All Forrests count as rolling "razorwing nest" on mysterious terrain table, mega nids are not affected by this

"there in the trees" all movement through any Forrest or difficult terrain rolls 1d6 less than normal (min 1d6)

Just a few simple ideas

Wow, that is actually an amazing idea for them !
im going to steal it if you dont mind... actually.. ill just steal it anyway