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2018/10/09 14:03:27
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
With my Catachans, I've found Mental fortitude and ignore cover from an astropath invaluable on combined squads pushing forward. They also make conscripts somewhat useful when you need a big screen, and fill out a brigade nicely. Just a good cheap utility unit. But I may have more psychic than necessary in the above list...
Edit: yeah, I could drop one astro and one psyker, give those last two cadian squads Las/plas, and have 20pts left
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 14:08:55
2018/10/09 14:35:38
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
1) fails 60+% of the time then as you have more units
2) fine but relic of cadia is a one off so you lose this against all the other knights on following turn
3) pask cannot order himself see faq special snowflake
4-8) your maths is off but but the principle is sound
Also I refer back to my statement its not possible unless you go completely anti armour which you have done.
What you have demonstrated is that its not possible unless you go completely anti armour and then you fail 60% of the time. I accept your point that I was too optimistic
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 14:36:38
2018/10/09 14:54:24
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Yes, it does fail 60% of the time. That's a lot less than 100%, as you indicated earlier.
The Relic of Lost Cadia is very good - and relics are chosen at the start of the battle. So don't take it if the situation doesn't call for it. it could also be saved for turn 2, if staying stationary as Cadian and Old Grudges do the job on their own.
I don't know what is limiting Pask from ordering himself, after looking at the FAQ. Are you talking about the AMFAQ or the Rule Book FAQ?
Ultimately there is only one 3++ knight. Shoot something scary enough at it to make them burn the CPs and then focus on eliminating the rest of the army. It is a war of attrition but that should play right into Guard's strengths.
The Pask ordering himself thing was in the FAQ for the Index but that was removed when the Codex was released.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/09 15:51:29
Well useing your app pask deals 8.5 and thats assuming the knights taranis and a 4+ inv so your inputs wrong. I am too lazy to go through all of them but some are not right.
Pask was faqd in index imperium 2 they didn't change the datasheet it is held to still apply
As to cost well 1000 pts+ is still the majority of your army dedicated to 1 6" combo. That only works 40% of the time if you dedicated your whole army tacked on some more executioners you might get that up to 100% it still proves my point that you can't reliably do it without dedicateing your whole or almost whole army to the task.
Acheiving success 40% of the time is a majority loss.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/09 15:57:09
2018/10/09 18:47:00
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
U02dah4 wrote: Well useing your app pask deals 8.5 and thats assuming the knights taranis and a 4+ inv so your inputs wrong. I am too lazy to go through all of them but some are not right.
Pask was faqd in index imperium 2 they didn't change the datasheet it is held to still apply
As to cost well 1000 pts+ is still the majority of your army dedicated to 1 6" combo. That only works 40% of the time if you dedicated your whole army tacked on some more executioners you might get that up to 100% it still proves my point that you can't reliably do it without dedicateing your whole or almost whole army to the task.
Acheiving success 40% of the time is a majority loss.
Index Pask has been faq’d, but codex pask hasn’t been?
If they didn’t add the exception to the codex itself, and they haven’t put it in the codex faq, then that’s that. Pask can order himself.
Must be the intention, as it’s not hard to copy paste the errata if they wanted to.
2018/10/09 21:15:45
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Also, the latest version of the Index 2 FAQ makes no mention of Park except that he can take a hunter-killer missile. The restriction on Tank Commanders not being able to order characters was removed when the Codes came out, as it makes no mention of it. The exemption for Park to order other characters is also gone (so his data sheet did change, under his Knight Commander ability) since it isn't needed any more.
There is nothing that I can find currently in the Codes or the updated FAQs that would make Park unable to order himself.
2018/10/09 22:33:49
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Tank commanders and pask are able to order themselves.
The faq that was for the index was removed when the codex came out, as others have said.
There’s nothing that says a tank commander can’t choose his own russ for the purpose of orders. It’s just like other characters with their aura abilities. They have the same key words so those abilities affect them. A tank commanders order just chooses a single unit with the appropriate key words.
2018/10/10 06:12:52
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Also, if castellan is the kind that can get up, its shooting can be ignored, without raven buffs, its horribly inconsistent for its cost.
Whenever I talk about meta or how good something is, I'm speaking about the competitive tournament environment. So if I say your favourite unit is trash, I mean it's trash in a list that aims to be at the top tables.
2018/10/10 06:18:11
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Postulent wrote: Also, if castellan is the kind that can get up, its shooting can be ignored, without raven buffs, its horribly inconsistent for its cost.
Also you could shoot something at it, trigger RIS, then switch to 5++ target and opponent spent 3CP that didn't much help while losing another knight. Knight army loses efficiency fast when knights starts to die. Castellan good, non-raven castellan(which btw eats now whopping 6 CP a turn for raven and 3++ with less CP available) unreliable so it's not total disaster to have it live turn longer unless you have like all tank IG army.
Oh and the wake up and shoot again will then cost 4-5 CP for 75% chance and is trivial to take down second time.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/10/10 10:32:07
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Postulent wrote: Also, if castellan is the kind that can get up, its shooting can be ignored, without raven buffs, its horribly inconsistent for its cost.
Also you could shoot something at it, trigger RIS, then switch to 5++ target and opponent spent 3CP that didn't much help while losing another knight. Knight army loses efficiency fast when knights starts to die. Castellan good, non-raven castellan(which btw eats now whopping 6 CP a turn for raven and 3++ with less CP available) unreliable so it's not total disaster to have it live turn longer unless you have like all tank IG army.
Oh and the wake up and shoot again will then cost 4-5 CP for 75% chance and is trivial to take down second time.
The counter counter play to that is to let the first unit or two fire at the Castellan and wait until they actually score a wound to trigger overlapping fields of fire, THEN turn on RIS.
2018/10/14 18:32:13
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
In this list, would you use an astopath and a primaris psyker, two astopath, or a culexus ?
The Culexus isn't bad to counter opponents' psy powers, and can deep strike, can fight etc...
But psykers can deny and cast ! The culexus won't help against a necron or a Tau for example... What would you take ?
Or another assassin, like an Eversor in order to help my guys in assault ?
Well, a single battalion at 1500 is suboptimal, and with only one assassin, it's an auxiliary detachment, not a vanguard. Altogether, you'll only have 7cp, which will really hamper you. I'd take more troops and some astropaths or psykers
2018/10/14 21:12:42
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
I'm looking at command squads to see if there's anything worth considering - how many special weapons can the 4 man squad take? It's a little confusing when it says one guy can do this and one guy can take that...
2018/10/14 21:15:16
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
necron99 wrote: I'm looking at command squads to see if there's anything worth considering - how many special weapons can the 4 man squad take? It's a little confusing when it says one guy can do this and one guy can take that...
All four can take a special weapon, only one can take a heavy.
2018/10/15 21:38:28
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
TankCmdr wrote: Well, a single battalion at 1500 is suboptimal, and with only one assassin, it's an auxiliary detachment, not a vanguard. Altogether, you'll only have 7cp, which will really hamper you. I'd take more troops and some astropaths or psykers
Yeah, I miss the good old Foc...
But you know what ? Thanks to a happy coincidence, all of my footslogging infantry are classic cadian shock troops and have a different paint scheme from my FW cadian who ride in chimera and my vehicles....
After rereading all the stratagems, doctrines etc... I decided to keep the Tallarn doctrines for the armored part, and to make my infantry Cadian.
I have 10 points lefts.
Old Grudge + Cadian infantry can give me full reroll to hit and to wound around 6' of my tank commander, not bad I guess.
I have 3 deny the witch, some useful psy powers, I can give LD9 to my little guys thanks to the prefectoria leman russ, if I really need to, and I can have only 10 drops if I want.
What do you think ? I won't go the the LGT with it, ofc, but I like it, and it is even more fluff (an infantry regiment working along an armored one).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/16 04:57:28
Is anyone really finding success with Leman Russ tanks outside of command tanks? Every time I end up bringing them they end up just being a wall at best, and vastly outperformed by other alternatives such as Basilisks
2018/10/16 15:36:23
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Postulent wrote: Also, if castellan is the kind that can get up, its shooting can be ignored, without raven buffs, its horribly inconsistent for its cost.
Also you could shoot something at it, trigger RIS, then switch to 5++ target and opponent spent 3CP that didn't much help while losing another knight. Knight army loses efficiency fast when knights starts to die. Castellan good, non-raven castellan(which btw eats now whopping 6 CP a turn for raven and 3++ with less CP available) unreliable so it's not total disaster to have it live turn longer unless you have like all tank IG army.
Oh and the wake up and shoot again will then cost 4-5 CP for 75% chance and is trivial to take down second time.
The counter counter play to that is to let the first unit or two fire at the Castellan and wait until they actually score a wound to trigger overlapping fields of fire, THEN turn on RIS.
True, but with nothing but a 5++, overlapping fields isn't even needed to down the next knight. IG puts out so much dakka one knight minimum will go down.
- 10,000 pts
2018/10/17 12:33:38
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Any advice on the queries below re: a TAC cadian all comers tourney list (some tanks, some troops, some psykers, some support units).
With the new CP farm CA rules, is kurovs aquila still the best way to get back a CP? (and only 1 per turn now correct no matter what?)
What are some good warlord traits for an IG commander? I was thinking master of command?
Are HWT worth it? Specifically either LCs or MLs (maybe 2-3 teams?)
Pask seems to do well in terms of firepower in a punisher with HBs sponsons but is quite short ranged?
Any advice on psychic powers? (have 2 psykers)
Useful IG stratagems?
thanks!
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough".
2018/10/17 13:05:20
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
HWTLC are quite damage efficient for there pt in cadia but die to a stiff breeze and so will probably be the first thing your opponent targets stick them in bunkers and use the cadia stratagy for +1 bs might work - Alternatively most people use mortars and hide them out of sight if your opponent cant see them they cant shoot them. However you are then no longer a cheap option
Its not a bad way to get cp back but does depend on your opponents cp pool so better as a 1cp relic once youve seen your opponents cp pool size.
Given that an order is about 15pts on a cc so just buy another and a tank commander warlord will be shot off the table quickly its always a helpfull trait but its not great. Grand strategist on the other hand wlnt help you much vs an msu horde but will really help vs that singular big knight.
Its list dependent with psychic powers bullgryns and crusaders benefit from barrier pask or a singular big vehicle the -1 to hit. If not the damage options are good. The line is strong but very situational so wont see use regularly and maelstrom doesn't need los so will work when smite cant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 13:09:13
2018/10/17 22:43:10
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
TankCmdr wrote: Well, a single battalion at 1500 is suboptimal, and with only one assassin, it's an auxiliary detachment, not a vanguard. Altogether, you'll only have 7cp, which will really hamper you. I'd take more troops and some astropaths or psykers
Yeah, I miss the good old Foc...
But you know what ? Thanks to a happy coincidence, all of my footslogging infantry are classic cadian shock troops and have a different paint scheme from my FW cadian who ride in chimera and my vehicles....
After rereading all the stratagems, doctrines etc... I decided to keep the Tallarn doctrines for the armored part, and to make my infantry Cadian.
I have 10 points lefts.
Old Grudge + Cadian infantry can give me full reroll to hit and to wound around 6' of my tank commander, not bad I guess.
I have 3 deny the witch, some useful psy powers, I can give LD9 to my little guys thanks to the prefectoria leman russ, if I really need to, and I can have only 10 drops if I want.
What do you think ? I won't go the the LGT with it, ofc, but I like it, and it is even more fluff (an infantry regiment working along an armored one).
Vanquishers are statistically the worst Russ variant, with that load out on a Commander I'd give him a regular old battle Cannon. The augury array isn't necessary either.
Who's going in the chimeras? Cadian troops can't go in Tallarn transports.
And just a thought, my favorite thing about Tallarn is the ambush strat. To make the most of that, I'd consolidate all the LRs into one squad so they can out flank turn two and wreak havoc. But punishers with hb sponsons are best for that.
Or, With all the mid-range firepower you've got on those tanks, consider making them cadian and upgrade the commander to pask. Line them up with bubble wrap, don't move, then use pound them to dust and overlapping fields of fire. It should at least double the damage they do per turn. The hard part is keeping them alive, cause they will be priority number one for your opponent
Edit: for reference, the only way I've found russes worth it in 8th is with pask and one other cadian tank. Both with bc, lc and pcs like your list. Pask gives orders to himself and his buddy, shoots, hurts the target, I pop OFoF, his buddy now hits like a tank commander for 45pts less. Make them more survivable with nightshroud and a tech priest
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/17 22:51:06
2018/10/18 03:59:06
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
Hey, I'm building up my Astra Militarum army and was wondering what people would recommend for expanding from 500 to 1000 points.
So far, I've got two Company Commanders, three Infantry Squads (each with Plasma Gun), a HWT that can be Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, or Autocannon (currently putting them in the Infantry Squads), another HWT that's Mortars, and a Leman Russ with Battle Cannon, Lascannon, and Heavy Bolters (running as Pask).
2018/10/18 18:58:56
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
ronjamin1022 wrote: Hey, I'm building up my Astra Militarum army and was wondering what people would recommend for expanding from 500 to 1000 points.
So far, I've got two Company Commanders, three Infantry Squads (each with Plasma Gun), a HWT that can be Heavy Bolter, Lascannon, or Autocannon (currently putting them in the Infantry Squads), another HWT that's Mortars, and a Leman Russ with Battle Cannon, Lascannon, and Heavy Bolters (running as Pask).
I'd get a bassie...indirect fire is awesome
2018/10/19 08:43:27
Subject: Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?
So, my list wasn't bad eventually. I didn't played it very well because, eh, it was my first time with it, but it worked. I needed a bit more projection capabilities and more bodies, definitely.
So in order to go 2000 pts, I made this one. However, I am afraid I will need more AT weaponry at 2000 (even if people don't play a lot of vehicles) and this list is really less armored than my 1500pts one (it worked well at 1500).
