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Ok, So I'm going to be running 3 CSM DP's in my 2000 point list.I have given all of them the mark or khorne as I am building a khorne list. I have given one the mace, and one the AoBF, but the third I'm not sure about. I want to give him the murder sword. As a MC he will be AP2, and the daemon weapon gives him +D6 attacks.....It also means one character is going to get it!

Has anyone used it to any effect?

Its not a daemon weapon so no extra attacks from that.

I find it a bit too situational honestly, its only great against one model, and then its worth less then a lead pipe to you.

Here's a question, if you are hitting the named character, it has the instant death USR, what happens if that character is an eternal warrior? Which rule suoercedes which?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question, if you are hitting the named character, it has the instant death USR, what happens if that character is an eternal warrior? Which rule suoercedes which?

Eternal Warrior continues unless you have something that specifically removes Eternal Warrior (Which ingame, there is none)

Any 'remove character from play, with no saves of any kind" will eat a EW character. Things like tesseract labyrinthes.

But murder sword on a DP seems sort of meh. You can smash and double out most characters anyways, and youre already wounding on 2s most of the time, with AP2. so really, it doesnt bring anything to the table.

Why spend points to be better at killing 1 sarge a turn than you already are?

Ok, consider this for a murder sword on a DP, It would mean he would instant kill -

Other Daemon princes (The bonus of a full number of attacks)
Greater daemons
Wraithlords
O'Vesa
Dreadknights
Certain tyranid MC's

A lot of these are common, surely that makes it worth it?

No, because the Murder Sword gives ID against one -character- iirc.

Wraithlords, Dreadknights, Tyranid MCs (apart from a few), Wraithknights, etc are not characters and you wouldn't be able to point them out for it.

The murder sword should not have any effect against EW models since the murder sword grants ID and EW's main purpose is to negate ID. This ID is also only granted against one model that you point out in the whole of the game, after that it's like a CCW. I feel like it's a waste of 30 points for a DP

a wraithlord most definitely is a character, Eldar are my primary army, so I can promise you that. I also play grey knights and know for a fact that dreadknights are also characters. Therefor I most definitely will be able to target one of those.

However, should those models not be on the table, surely its still worth it in a lot of situations. Even if their warlord or character that I want dead could be ID by a smash attack, the bonus of the murder sword is not having to halve the attack characteristic, so I get more attempts to hit, and more attempts to get that ID! It is like a smash attack, but with your normal attacks characteristic!

Well, you are arguing taking the Murder Sword like there is no tomorrow, so obviously you want to take it.

Survey says?
Take it already. Whether or not it is good will show in the games to come.

Take the black mace. As you are already taking a Daemon Prince, giving it a Fleshbane AP2 Daemon Weapon, which forces toughness tests and has an area effect in addition to normal attacks really is a no brainer.

...you already are taking the black mace. Damn. Well, take the Murder Sword if you want. IIRC, Daemon Princes don't really have any other options.

-Shrike- wrote:
Take the black mace. As you are already taking a Daemon Prince, giving it a Fleshbane AP2 Daemon Weapon, which forces toughness tests and has an area effect in addition to normal attacks really is a no brainer.

...you already are taking the black mace. Damn. Well, take the Murder Sword if you want. IIRC, Daemon Princes don't really have any other options.

Allied DP with spineshiver blade, also have the ability to give him skull of kergnr


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or hand of darkness if you want to throw in that extra 20 points and be able to ID any model (a better murder sword). only one attack though when you use it in the assault phase, you're more then likely to kill him with that one attack though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
a wraithlord most definitely is a character, Eldar are my primary army, so I can promise you that. I also play grey knights and know for a fact that dreadknights are also characters. Therefor I most definitely will be able to target one of those.

However, should those models not be on the table, surely its still worth it in a lot of situations. Even if their warlord or character that I want dead could be ID by a smash attack, the bonus of the murder sword is not having to halve the attack characteristic, so I get more attempts to hit, and more attempts to get that ID! It is like a smash attack, but with your normal attacks characteristic!

but only against one model during the whole duration of the game thats chosen in the very beginning

Heres a REAL question for you vets. I have a sarg who eats challenges so my murder sword weilding lord can go to town on a unit. My lord is in base contact with the swords intended target therefor causes instant death, does wounds to the target and his unit. Do those hits still cause instant death? For the purposes of ignoring fnp or wounding multiple wound models in the unit for example

Renegade_commander wrote:
Heres a REAL question for you vets. I have a sarg who eats challenges so my murder sword weilding lord can go to town on a unit. My lord is in base contact with the swords intended target therefor causes instant death, does wounds to the target and his unit. Do those hits still cause instant death? For the purposes of ignoring fnp or wounding multiple wound models in the unit for example

As per the challenge rules, models participating in a challenge count as being in base contact only with each other. So if your sergeant is taking a challenge against the sword's target, your Lord does not count as being in base contact, even if he is, and thus does not gain the benefits of the Murder Sword.

I'm considering running 3 DP's in a dual FOC list. If I take an allied BL DP, I can't take a dual FOC (points just won't allow it!) 1 of them has the mace, and 1 has the axe, so I'm looking for something for the third. I could drop 2 DP's for allies....but I don't want to. I like the idea of 3 FMC's flying around from a CSM codex! Just trying to work out if the 35 points is worth it for the murder sword in the third DP? Thoughts are being listened too. Just trying to weigh up pros and cons!

On a side note, I don't own the black legion codex, I refuse to pay that much money, for essentially some artefacts...

You can use 3 Dp's in a singular FOC, You'll just have to change the khorne zerkers to CSM with MoK
-some feel this is better from what I've seen on threads, I usually don't touch khorne though

The main problem with THE MURDER SWORD is that it only affects one model per game, so you end up paying a decent amount of points in order to hit just one model with an attack that has a good chance to kill it. Otherwise the sword does nothing seeing as all MCs already have smash. For your money, the Black Mace is the better weapon all around, because it is fleshbane and AP2.

Clearly people are failing to read the thread...

I already have the mace on one...

I already have the AoBF on a second...

I'm debating using this weapon on my third DP.

And there is absolutely NO WAY of getting 3 DP's into a single FOC. Not without BL legion allies which I refuse to pay for, or without dropping Kharn which I refuse to do. I also don't want daemon allies, I like the fluffy idea of a blood thirster and another DP. Hate the idea of buying yet another expensive codex for the privilege, and having to pay a troops tax of blood letters (as I'm going Khorne only) and daemonic instability.

If I don't take the murder sword, I can perhaps squeeze in another zerker for one squad and another upgrade or two. But my main opponent is a farsight list that includes O'Vesa... And if I come against many characters similar to him, it really could be worth it! Especially as if I don't kill a wraithlord, or Dreadknight, or vesa, then they can ID me with a smash attack!

That's what i was meaning when I said three Dp's in a foc, one being an ally.

Once again, its only good against a single model the whole game, and then is completely worthless to you. You also assume that your DP will reach its intended target, which it may not. Just run him with his fists, your other deamon princes should sort out anything else.

The burning brand would probably be more useful.

If you're deadset on a artefact, i would agree with Wango. The burning brand gives him some really nice ranged capability on top of his CC goodness.

 Roboute wrote:

Renegade_commander wrote:
Heres a REAL question for you vets. I have a sarg who eats challenges so my murder sword weilding lord can go to town on a unit. My lord is in base contact with the swords intended target therefor causes instant death, does wounds to the target and his unit. Do those hits still cause instant death? For the purposes of ignoring fnp or wounding multiple wound models in the unit for example

As per the challenge rules, models participating in a challenge count as being in base contact only with each other. So if your sergeant is taking a challenge against the sword's target, your Lord does not count as being in base contact, even if he is, and thus does not gain the benefits of the Murder Sword.

Now what happens when you BOTH have sergeants eating challeneges, and the Lord and enemy HQ are in Base Contact? Do all of your Lords attacks become ID? Even once your first wound kills the enemy HQ / character ? Do the remaining wounds go onto his squad?

I will have to wait till i get home and look at the codex before i say anything on that.


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It just says it boosts his attacks when in b2b with the marked model, so i would say it strikes everything like that.

I consider the murder sword too situational and would never take it for my lists. That said, a friend of mine does take it, and I have seen it make a difference in 2 games.

The first was versus a Tyranid army. He used it to kill a swarmlord with an otherwise very vanilla sorcerer. This was huge and the entire game changed right there.

The second was versus my very own CL. It absolutely sucks when your HQ is robbed from you like that.

I agree with the burning brand on a dp - mini heldrake and then he never has to land either.

The murder sword on a DP is good for hunting down characters like Mephiston - you can run him down and charge him. His T6 won't matter at that point.

The main thing to look out for would be anyone I10 - your DP will go second and won't get to hit if he's going against something that can smash.

TBH - If you're running 2 Dp's already with cc artefacts, I'd give him the burning brand, You've got CC covered

Just throwing this out there, but what about Daemon Allies? You could get a Lord of Change and Daemon Prince of Tzeentch in as allies. Two Greater Rewards (Roll for groovy stuff like 4+ FnP, +1 wound and IWND, or 3+ Armor Save) and one Lesser(Staff of Change) reward for Str 8 attacks. Take some cheapish troops. Horrors or Plague Bearers are popular choices. If you wanted even more troops, take Exalted and Lesser on the Daemon Prince and swap exalted for Portalglyph.

Lord of Change is ML3, roll 2-3 times on Divination and buff CSM stuff, or take Flickering Fire on both LoC and DP to have a way to deal with rear AV 10 flyers.

I am going to have an issue with fliers, but I'm pretty keen to avoid taking allies. Its a lot of effort and extra money for something that doesn't really excite me. I am also trying to stay with everything khornate.

i am tempted witht the burning brand though, I hadnt thought of that as an option. It's also Khorne fluffy which I like. But it does sound like the murder sword could every now and again be a game changer. especially with the wording and the need to only be in nase contact....

You could keep it Khorne for Bloodthirster, Daemon Prince, Blood letters. But I understand about the whole allies thing. It starts to add up with getting another codex and models. Same goes for BL supplement. At least with BL, you already have CSM models.

Yeah, Burning Brand is the last option besides the Axe and Mace. If you go BL, there's the Spineshiver Blade. And it doesn't replace the CCW, so you get +1A for two CCWs. Not sure if anyone has mentioned that before.