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Hey

I've been assembling a space marine chapter of my own creation, using cheap beat up ebay bargains/stuff I've traded for etc
I don't own 6th edition SM codex yet, still on 5th, but I was having a look over a mates copy (6th ed) -

I understand that Ultras have different tactics from salamanders, from imperial fists etc, that's fine
What I didn't get is this -

Say my custom chapter is to use Salamanders tactics (likely at this point), but I wanna use the Captain Lysander model in my custom colours for the HQ choice (the hq i was gonna buy before this question came up), can I do that and have lysanders stats with salamanders tactics? Or does having that model now mean I have to use IF tactics?

With the 6th edition codex you must use a specific chapter tactics to take a special character.
For Lysander you must use IF chapter tactics, not the Salamander.

SM Special Characters have their own rules that cannot be changed, just like any other Special Character. If CT: IF is listed for Lysander, why do you think you could change it?

If you want Lysander, consider taking an allied IF detachment for your Amphibs

All of the named characters have a pre-defined chapter tactic. You can only have one chapter tactic per detachment. If you use a named character you have to use his pre-defined chapter tactic and that will essentially lock in your choice for that detachment. So no you can't you Lysander's stats in a salamanders chapter, but if you already bought the model you can use the model to make a generic captain or chapter master with salamanders tactics.

Edit: Just wanted to add this is not limited to HQ choices. A unit with a pre-defined tactic will force you to choose that tactic for the whole detachment if you want to take that unit.

You can still use the model as a TH/SS TDA HQ. (Yay for abbreviations!)

 Eldarain wrote:
You can still use the model as a TH/SS TDA HQ. (Yay for abbreviations!)

lol

OK guys cheers, I'd have to use him as a chapter master or something then.
In that case I've got a Space wolves terminator l was gonna use as a wolf lord but never got round to painting, might just use him as my HQ and spend the Lysander money elsewhere (towards new codex maybe lol)

I was wondering this myself. Thanks for clarifying. Anybody else think this rule is rubbish? My army is a custom salamanders rip off giving me a massive 1 potential named character. I bought Codex : Space Marines after all - not Codex : Ultramarines. Don't see why they couldn't have kept the 'counts as' - sacrificing opposing chapter tactics if need be.

I'd imagine they considered it but I can see why they didn't.

Imagine trying to make them all work while having to consider each one of them with any of the available special rules for each Chapter.

Not rubbish at all. Fits many chapters neatly into one codex instead of 5+

No matter what size bone a dog has, they always want what the other dog has.

 grendel083 wrote:
Not rubbish at all. Fits many chapters neatly into one codex instead of 5+

No matter what size bone a dog has, they always want what the other dog has.

Speak for yourself. I'm quite happy with the rather largish size of my, ahem, bone.

I like the way the new codex works for the most part - would've liked to think my salamanders would have an expert scout choice, chief librarian, tank commander etc.

You can still take a chapter specific model and paint it totally different?
I mean like, take imperial fist tactics, take Lysander, but paint them all luminous pink if you like?
That's still cool right? No body is now saying Sicarius HAS to be blue?

Just seems very limiting to the diy chapter. My salamander based guys have basically become ultramarines just cause I'm bored of vulkan.

so dont use a special character.


If you want a special characters rules, you gotta use them, and their chapter tactics. It's fair.


There is nothing preventing you from coming up with your own character with special rules, just make sure to notify your opponent before hand.

Aye - I know. You can put together a pretty decent chapter master or captain - especially with the new chapter relics - but I find it irritating that my guys have standard inept scout sarge instead of telion clone for example. And where's my toughness 6 bad ass chaplain? Don't mean to moan.

i do admit its not fair that Ultramarines get 6 or so special characters, but they pay for that in the fact that their chapter tactics dont last the whole game, unless you take marneus.

And even then, you dont get the good one (tactical) but for 2 turns.

Just seems very limiting to the diy chapter. My salamander based guys have basically become ultramarines just cause I'm bored of vulkan.

Why it is significantly less limiting than the last codex so why complain? The last codex forced you to become Ultramarines because you were bored of Vulkan, this codex allows you yo stick with Salamander tactics without forcing a Special Character on you. Due to allies you can even have Special Characters from several chapters in one army.

People moaning they bought codex Space Marines not codex Ultramarines baffle me. This codex is by far the most codex Space Marines codex yet. Each chapter gets their own chapter and special rules. Is there a bias to Ultramarines? Sure but this codex has been codex UMs since inception and added no new UM stuff this time but new stuff for all other chapters.

I am with FlingItNow, the Space Marine Codex has always been an 'Ultra Marine Codex' in all but name. It was a pipe dream, thanks to the internal politics of Game Workshop, that the newest version of it would be a complete 180 from the past stances. This new codex was always doomed to be Ultra Marine heavy but the real question was how heavy was it going to be; many expected nothing more then a lip service to the existence of other chapters which would be par for the normal.

Personally, seeing they at least gave unique chapter rules to other chapters, I think we got the best we where going to get.

I'm pretty new to the hobby so I might be missing something, but I don't get why GW are so Ultramarine focused.
There's some many interesting characters from other chapters, different worlds, battles etc... never really got why other chapters can't be splashed on posters or whatever and just have more diversity

As much as I think blue looks good, and have no problem with people getting into them, everything I've read/see/played referring to Ultras has made me feel they are pretty bland as chapter

Ultramarines were nothing more than the blue ones when first concieved (as a child I collected them simply because their Chapter symbol seemed easiest to paint, initially I was drawn to the black ones but the DA symbol was far beyond me). They became the poster boys simply because they were the most popular. GW has always tried to push DAs, SWs or BAs but none stick like Ultramarines. Heck initially the Ultras had by far the worst codex in the early days as theirs was the base codex and the other Chapters got everything the Ultras got plus some extras.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Ultramarines were nothing more than the blue ones when first concieved (as a child I collected them simply because their Chapter symbol seemed easiest to paint, initially I was drawn to the black ones but the DA symbol was far beyond me). They became the poster boys simply because they were the most popular. GW has always tried to push DAs, SWs or BAs but none stick like Ultramarines. Heck initially the Ultras had by far the worst codex in the early days as theirs was the base codex and the other Chapters got everything the Ultras got plus some extras.

See, my primary army is Codex: Space Wolves, but of the codex SM chapters I am drawn more to Imperial fists and lately Salamanders... Ultras are now way down the bottom of the "like" list for me since learning more about the 40k story etc, they are just before Iron Hands coz they seem to moody, teenger angst for me personally.

Then it all came about because people painted more blue than anything else? So the Ultramarine bias is our fault essentially (as hobbyists I mean)?
Makes sense I suppose

1d4chan blames Matt Ward for all the Smurf focus, when there is clearly far better chapters out there.

Are people saying that you can use a special character as long as you share the chapter tactics? Because I had read the 'rules as written' to mean that you had to be the right chapter to use the character?
"Certain units and special characters have specific Chapter Tactics and can only be taken in detachments of the specified Chapter"
Pretty happy if this is wrong, as liked using whoever the hell I liked for my Unique Chapter in 5th, with a change of name

Yes, you can use Happy-Go-Lucky Marines led by Marneus Calgar if your custom marines use the Ultramarines Chapter Tactics.

 Inflatable love badger wrote:
Are people saying that you can use a special character as long as you share the chapter tactics? Because I had read the 'rules as written' to mean that you had to be the right chapter to use the character?
"Certain units and special characters have specific Chapter Tactics and can only be taken in detachments of the specified Chapter"
Pretty happy if this is wrong, as liked using whoever the hell I liked for my Unique Chapter in 5th, with a change of name

what I got from all this would be - "take Captain Lysander, paint him orange and call him Lord Gobblecock if you want, but your army now has to have Imperial Fist chapter tactics only"

There is a rumor that the Black Library Warlords series will include more named characters with more rules. So you could end up paying 5 bucks a shot to get more characters in your codex. I hope this rumor is true. I'd love to see Cypher as a Dark Angels bonus character, he is worth of a 5 buck book.

 Xiorell wrote:
You can still take a chapter specific model and paint it totally different?
I mean like, take imperial fist tactics, take Lysander, but paint them all luminous pink if you like?
That's still cool right? No body is now saying Sicarius HAS to be blue?

I'd be willing to be bet that the less then 2% will require you paint named character as named characters but at least one person somewhere will require you paint them 'right'.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Xiorell wrote:
You can still take a chapter specific model and paint it totally different?
I mean like, take imperial fist tactics, take Lysander, but paint them all luminous pink if you like?
That's still cool right? No body is now saying Sicarius HAS to be blue?

I'd be willing to be bet that the less then 2% will require you paint named character as named characters but at least one person somewhere will require you paint them 'right'.

lol i think those are the people i avoid anyway

The rule book give specific permission to paint your lysander the same color as you DIY/successor chapter; with IF:CT.

In that you are allowed to take lysander as part of your DIY/Successor chapter

If you want a salamander lysander. TH, Shield Eternal, Chapter Master, TDA. Boom, Pseudo-sander.

Yeah, it should be emphasized that the 6e book is in many ways more flexible. Say you want a Vulkan-type dude, because he's fairly buff (2+/3++, Relic Blade, DigWeps, etc) and not unreasonably priced by points, but you want to use something other than Salamanders rules. In the 5e book the generic guys were so overcosted that there was no way you could justify not using the named characters. In the 6e book you could build a guy just like whomever you like, say Lysander, just missing out on a little bit of a bargain for his special rule. I run down some of the details and how it stacks up for a generic Vulkan-knockoff in a blog post here. This is a huge improvement over the 5e book for people running custom chapters or different strategies.

The feature that the 6e codex is missing without counts-as, more than the HQs, is the ability to have more semi-special upgrade characters. E.g., I use Salamanders tactics, but would also like an expert scout sergeant. Sadly only Ultras get Telion. I think GW's plan is to fill this need by making you buy the Codex supplements coming out, e.g., the Imperial Fists 3rd Company book that's either out or about to come out.