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I like to build a company of marines with out any vehicles at all. my whole chapter will not have vehicles drop pods are out also. Is this a legal to do. 6Ed has made me see that vehicles are no longer any good. also i never liked the idea of drop pods. i play very defense never see the need for vehicles anx when i do use rhinos preda dreads they die in thres truns.
so are vehicles mandatory in a sm chapter our company. also are the ever useful in6ed i haven't seen a tank in ages

Vehicles are not counted as part of the chapter so it is possible, allow maybe not smart. For a battle company all you need are

1 Captain (including Sicarius, Lysander, Shrike and Khan)
1 Command Squad (choice of gear)
1 Chaplain
6x 10 Man Tactical Squad
2x 10 Man Assault Squad
2x 10 Man Devastator Squad
(Optional) Librarian


You could also have 1st or 10th Company seconded to you're Company, in the form of Scout, Scout Biker, Vanguard or Sternguard Veterans and Terminators of regular or Assault variety.

Could you maybe put even the slightest effort into spelling, grammar, punctuation, and capitalization?

Your posts are just awful to read.

Anyways, no, you don't have to have vehicles.

There is no rule stating you must take a vehicle.

Also, I'd say the 6ed changes almost require them as they are extremely useful for getting your guys to where they are needed.

However, do what works for you. Build your company the way you want.

Regarding usefulness: its hard to beat being able to reposition a tac squad 30" within 2 turns.

How does one move a sqaud 30inch in 2 truns my rhinos never make more the 12inch before ther dead. also you never move pred as then only one gun shots at full bs so i use my preds as bunkers

zilka86 wrote:
How does one move a sqaud 30inch in 2 truns my rhinos never make more the 12inch before ther dead. also you never move pred as then only one gun shots at full bs so i use my preds as bunkers

I'd imagine move 6" to embark, then the transport moves 12". Next turn, assuming the transport lives, move 12" again, then disembark 6". It's up to you to find a way to keep them alive, before you complain about them dying.

You don't need vehicles, per say, but a vehicle may fill a certain role on the battlefield that infantry might not be able to, or just isn't available anywhere else in the army. Do what you will, but try to have an open mindset. Find a player willing to help you experiment.

 Deadshot wrote:
Vehicles are not counted as part of the chapter so it is possible, allow maybe not smart. For a battle company all you need are

1 Captain (including Sicarius, Lysander, Shrike and Khan)
1 Command Squad (choice of gear)
1 Chaplain
6x 10 Man Tactical Squad
2x 10 Man Assault Squad
2x 10 Man Devastator Squad
(Optional) Librarian


You could also have 1st or 10th Company seconded to you're Company, in the form of Scout, Scout Biker, Vanguard or Sternguard Veterans and Terminators of regular or Assault variety.

A minor correction: You should have 1-4 dreadnoughts in your battle company. Dedicated transports (your rhinos) are technically company level assists, but nobody should give you much flack if you don't have them. If you wanted to be complete, you'd pick them up. Once you can put ~100+ marines on the table, you can say you field a battle company, the transports are just gravy. I know I'm short myself.

The librarian is not an option, not optional. They are chapter level assets, like techmarines and tanks. They are never "part" of a company, just fight alongside. I'd recommend them to anyone collecting marines, but from a pure TOE standpoint, they don't belong.

Wouldn't the same also count for Chaplains, then?

Also, I would say how many (if any!) Dreadnoughts a Chapter fields in its companies would depend on the individual Chapter. Some may lack the chassis, some may lack the crippled Marines, etc.

Speaking of, I think it could be helpful if OP would mention the Chapter (if it's not a homebrew), as some (such as the Salamanders) have slightly different company structures.

I don't believe chaplains are specific to a battle company, they are assets of the legion. Would have to do some digging, but I remember wondering where the chaplains were in some company lists.

 Lynata wrote:
Wouldn't the same also count for Chaplains, then?

Also, I would say how many (if any!) Dreadnoughts a Chapter fields in its companies would depend on the individual Chapter. Some may lack the chassis, some may lack the crippled Marines, etc.

Speaking of, I think it could be helpful if OP would mention the Chapter (if it's not a homebrew), as some (such as the Salamanders) have slightly different company structures.

The difference between Librarians and Chaplains is that librarians are assigned to a company/strike force for the duration of a mission or campaign, whereas Chaplains are generally attached to a company on a permanent basis (edit: they are not part of the company, but will generally stay with it for large periods of time). Just as an example, Libriarian Tigurius was attached to the Ultramarines 2nd Co for the duration of the Damnos Campaign, while Chaplain Trajan fights with them the whole time. Another one would be the Ultramarine series, they always have a chaplain present but not always a librarian.

I suppose this is to do with the fact that Librarians don't have as much of a role outside of combat (although their prescience and communication are helpful) whereas a Chaplain is constantly responsible for the spiritual wellbeing of his company, and therefore needed the whole time.

Dreads do depend on the chapter/company, and on the whole, the further you are from a Second Founding chapter (ie. Legions and the first chapters) the less dreads you have, as relics are generally retained by the older chapters. I think BA have the most (I think around 30-40).

The 6th ed codex is a little fuzzier on the position of chaplains. They are not on the company lists anymore, but under their actual page description, we are told they are second in command of each company, second only to the captain.

Command squads are also not as prominently described.

But in most previous sources, the chaplains were definitely an integral part of the company.

The apocalypse book has formations for SM companies. For them you need 1 captain, 1 chaplain, 1 command squad, 3 dreadnoughts (any flavor) and 10x10 man squads (who's type depends on the nature of the company 6/2/2 for the battle). The command squad need the standard, but not necessarily the other specialists. I think that sets a pretty definite benchmark for what one needs to field.

Its a homebrew chapter my big reason for not wanting any vehicles is they die way to easy. Second i view marines as a defense army that holes the line then hits back with local counter attacks.

Don't forget that it's okay to take heavy bolters on tactical squads!

Nevelon wrote:But in most previous sources, the chaplains were definitely an integral part of the company.

Quite so - I dug up the old Index Astartes and, indeed, both Chaplains as well as Apothecaries are members of the HQ staff, but still permanently attached to each company. I now recall having read that some time ago, but I guess I must have forgotten.

Apologies for the lapse there.

@ Nevelon

That would be the case normally. However,Dreadnoughts usually stay with their original company and so if no one became a Dreadnought then there's no reason why they would have any. Not only that but some companies have more Dreads than that. I believe the Ultrmarine's 9th had like 7 in the 5th Ed 'dex.

 Deadshot wrote:
@ Nevelon

That would be the case normally. However,Dreadnoughts usually stay with their original company and so if no one became a Dreadnought then there's no reason why they would have any. Not only that but some companies have more Dreads than that. I believe the Ultrmarine's 9th had like 7 in the 5th Ed 'dex.

It's stayed at 7 in the 6th dex, but I recall that another Ultramarine company had none. So while it's common to have at least one, zilka wouldn't have to include one if he didn't want to, but a ranged support one might help keep closer to the fluffy norm of having a dread.

If you're building your own chapter, you can obviously do whatever you want. All you have to do is come up with a good rationale for your choices. However, not using APCs or tanks at all is not fluffy for a Codex-adherent Chapter.

If your building it for whatever then do what you like. there is no rules saying you NEED vehicles

BUT!

for the new full company apoc formation you will need 3 dreads.

 Deadshot wrote:
@ Nevelon

That would be the case normally. However,Dreadnoughts usually stay with their original company and so if no one became a Dreadnought then there's no reason why they would have any. Not only that but some companies have more Dreads than that. I believe the Ultrmarine's 9th had like 7 in the 5th Ed 'dex.

Back in the 3rd ed. codex, the 4th company was listed as "full strength" and had 4 dreads. So that's a number I like to keep in mind when talking about how many you should have.

As you say, they are tied very closely to their old company, not a chapter resource. I think the no-dread company would be an exception, not the rule. Of course, not every chapter thinks the same way. White Scars, IIRC, don't use dreads much. But if someone is talking about putting together a company, they should think of a reason why they don't have at least one or two if they choose not to use them.

And if you don't want to field them because of the AV12, just take a pair of ironclads. Or some of the FW dreads. Plenty of options out there.

Well - "full strength" for a Codex-compliant Chapter company means 100 Space Marines, plus staff.

A newly created Space Marine Chapter would have zero Dreadnoughts, yet it stands to reason it would be deemed at "full strength" as soon as HQ positions are filled and companies 1-9 have 10 squads with 10 Marines each.

The only vehicles that actually stay with a company are ransports like rhinos and maybe the occasional razorback.

I don't know how you play but when you take a single tank or single dread they die because that's the easy target. I love my rhinos especially in objective games. They make great pieces of cover that I can move into place. For 35 points a naked rhino has been more usefull then any other vehicle I have used.

If vehicles don't work for you maybe you should look into why they don't work for you but they do for he rest of us.

My problem with any vehicles i use it there target number next to my dev squads people see my three rhinos 2dreadsand my landspeeder squad and do ever thing in ther power to kill them in 2 to 3 truns. i used 3landraidera in one game and they where all dead in 2truns my opponent used ever thing he had to kill them fast. i guess i just didn't know vehicles are that deadly that people will do any thing to kill them

I'd be interested to see what armies can comfortably drop 3 Land Raiders in 2 turns, as I can't see something other than necrons or an army packing a large amount of Deep-striking meltas.

3 rhinos could conceivably be dropped in 2-3 turns, but by that point they really should have got the marines to where they need to be by then. You can't really expect just to sit in Rhinos the whole game and win, as you can't really apply proper force that way, but their job is really to get the marines to the midfield and then provide LOS-blocking/cover for as long as possible. They are, essentially, expendable, especially after First Blood has been scored.

I really can't see how you're losing all your vehicles in a few turns unless you're playing against Tau lists with 3 hammerheads and melta suits all round, on a board with no cover or terrain. You do need to play very carefully with them, but they aren't as fragile as you're making out.

I face a lot of tau eldar ig and marines
It to easy to knock out vehicles i faced a white scares rhino army i knocked out all his vehicles in one tru. means i win he had no chance

zilka86 wrote:

i knocked out all his vehicles in one turn

How did you do this? To me a Rhino army means 6+ rhinos and other tanks, and I can't see how you took them down that fast. Also, even without the Rhinos I imagine he had a chance, SM on foot are still dangerous.

 Paradigm wrote:
How did you do this? To me a Rhino army means 6+ rhinos and other tanks, and I can't see how you took them down that fast. Also, even without the Rhinos I imagine he had a chance, SM on foot are still dangerous.

The OP doesn't actually play the game, they just make up ridiculous stuff to troll everyone.

Its really not that hard to strip hp away all my dev squad have las cannons and i combat squad them so that's 4to six vehicles gone in one trun all my tac squad have las cannons so that a nother 4 Gone sp in one trun i can kil 8 vehicles easy then when my ig vendatts show up more vehicles dead trun 2so by trun three ther is no way any vehicles will be left even landraiders are dead

For the love of god please slow down when you type. Its barely legible.

Unless you are literally playing with no terrain and no Night fighting, I call shenanigans there should be at least some LOS blockage or even basic cover saves. And at that you should be missing 1/3 of your shots at least.

Oh, yea. Peregrine is correct. If you guys check his topic history, you realize the dude is trying to troll. Awful spelling and grammar are all part of it as well with no attempt to correct it.

Move along everybody.

Y is so hard foe people to relize vehicles are super frail in 6ed and the only way to go is gun line