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Hey peoples, I've just finished the paintjob on my DW Termies from the Dark Vengeance set. Since I'm now officially "done" with work on that one, I got myself another tactical squad to make my army basically legal. I'm currently in the process on putting the guys together (coming from DV this is a step up ) and I'm wondering what to use.
Since I basically have ZERO experience playing the games beside devouring the rulebook and my codex, I'm at a loss here.
What special weapon, what heavy weapon, how to arm the sarge?
As I said, since I don't know what I will mostly play against (CSM is for sure tho, sold the other part of the DV set, he "upgraded" with a Scourge afaik) I need your advice.
What kit is the "all purpose" one?
So far I'm thinking a rocket launcher and a flamer, with the sarge wielding a combimelta. Should be able to do something in every situation, no?

My plans on further building up the army is adding a devastator squad (armament unknown) and a Dreadnought (I freaking LOVE these guys. Srsly) and a 2nd HQ choice with a command squad. Prolly kick the bikes for a Rhino or 2...

If you play against CSM, a Plasma Cannon is always a good choice. Completely vaporizes his guys. However, I dont know if it is included in the Tactical Squad box.

But generally speaking, Plasma Cannon + Plasma Gun is good for tac squads facing MEQ.

The sarge should have a combi-plasma.

UNLESS...

you go for the following tactic:

split your 10 man squad into 2 combat squads, have the one with the Plasma Cannon stay behind and sit on the home objective, and put the other 5 guys in a Rhino you purchased for the squad. In this case, take a meltagun instead of the plasma gun and give the sarge a combi-plasma.

That way, your Rhino can move upto an enemy tank and fire 2 melta shots without the marines even having to get out (fire points). And moving across the board is easier this edition because maximum movement distance of regular tanks has been increased from 12" to 18".

If you know your opponent is going to field a lot of armor, taking a Lascannon instead of the Plasma Cannon is a good idea, too. I'm not a fan of MLs this edition as they are so costly and only relevant when you dont know what you will be facing.

When it comes to your sergeant, I would generally leave him dead stock and give him a bolter. Unless you have a very specific plan in mind where you will be putting the Tactical squad into combat (this is usually not a good idea), then there is no need to give him veteran status or a power weapon. Some people give veteran status for the +1 leadership if the unit will be put into harms way, but I think this is unnecessary. A combi-weapon can be useful, but I would not bother with it unless you have the 10 points to spare and nothing else to spend it on.

As far as special weapons your best bet is either a melta gun or a plasma gun. Tactical squads can do a good job of smearing enemy infantry with their rapid fire bolters alone, and though I do personally love flamers, they don't give as unique of a benefit as a Melta/Plasma gives. Melta is nice because it is a bit cheaper and can't Get Hot (really not a huge deal, but it will get you from time to time), but Plasma is great if you don't mind the point increase because it can threaten almost anything and meshes with the range of your bolters. If you know specifically that you intend to put your Tactical squad in close to enemies (like in a drop pod for example), or that you will be facing Orks or Tyranids then the flamer might make sense, but otherwise the Melta or Plasma are superior all around special weapons.

Heavy weapons should be considered in relation to the rest of your army and the role you intend your Tactical squad to fill. For a Tactical squad that will be at closer ranges to the enemy and will be moving frequently, a Multimelta or Heavy Bolter might work best for the snap firing, the ability to take on infantry or armor respectively, and the lower points cost. If you intend on combat squading and leaving the heavy weapon team to camp and objective then take the Missile or Lascannon if your list needs anti-armor, the Heavy Bolter if you want cheap weight of fire or anti-light infantry, or the Plasma Cannon if you want a jack of all trades weapon to threaten light armor/infantry/elites.

I rarely use Missiles or Lascannons on my Tactical squads anymore because I feel they are better used on Devestator squads.

I think it is worth mentioning that you need to remember what Tactical squads are good for and that is scoring and fighting other troops and infantry types of units. It just isn't good tactics to shoot your heavy weapon at a vehicle or something else that the rest of your squad cannot hurt and have the other 9 Tactical Marines just sitting around.

Some of my favorite and most used all around builds are:
10 Tacticals, Melta/Plasma Gun, Rhino <---these guys move to closer range, take objectives, and fight enemy infantry; so they don't get a heavy weapon unless I have points to spare
10 Tacticals, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter or Plasma Cannon, Rhino <----I usually stick the heavy weapon squad on my ADL quad gun and use the plasma squad to bolster my firing line or hold a forward objective
10 Tacticals, Melta/Plasma Gun, Multimelta or Heavy Bolter, Rhino <---these guys go to mid range, shoot a lot, and threaten everything in a 24" bubble.

P.S.
Dreadnoughts are awesome. Especially Riflemen (2x Twin Linked Autocannon) if you can convert or buy the arms for it (two IG heavy weapons teams autocannons can be used to convert these arms). Rhino's are also a pretty solid buy, especially if you have other armor in your list. It is just plain useful to be able to put a unit into the relative safety of the Rhino and cruise it around up to 18 inches.

Thanks for those excellent replys guys, really helped me to understand what to do, especially UltraTacSgt.
I totally forgot about the fact that I cannot split fire from the squad...
Considering my friend I sold the Chaos too seems to favour vehicles (he keeps jabbering about he doesn't like too much infantry and loves Scourge), a Melta seems to be the best choice.
Then I can do your "first" choice together with the "Rhinoblowup" Sir Arun mentioned (Combiweapons imo just are such a steal and works in this context)

This just leaves me needing to find a Plasmagun, since that one is not included in the Tac's box... With my current plan I'm exactly at 1499 pts, which seems to be a sweet spot.
Now, time to find me a Plasma Cannon...

Noobquestion: Do Devastator Plasma Cannons fit to tacticals? They should, shouldn't they, since it's basically the same model?

Thairne wrote:
Noobquestion: Do Devastator Plasma Cannons fit to tacticals? They should, shouldn't they, since it's basically the same model?

Yes, they most certainly do.

If you play the DV set, you probably have your bikes scout or infiltrate up and have the terminators deep strike using the teleport homer of the bikes?
An idea could be to add a tactical squad in a drop pod to that, in a supporting role, and give them a meltagun and a multimelta.

Now THAT does sound nifty and even better than the Rhinoidea...

You should already have plasma cannons if your using the DV box.

Nope, the models in the DV box come pretty preassembled. If you don't feel like cutting em up (which I wouldn't advice for beginners) you can't swap around the weapons. They are different to a standard box.
I worked around with getting a Devastator Box (which I wanted anyway) and will use a multimelta from there.
Still enough other bits left to assemble those too (which is the problem I got now )

The Dark Vengeance box comes with 1 guy wielding a Plasmacannon.

I think you meant Plasma Gun


Also, the idea of a multi melta in a drop pod is not good, as when it lands, you can only snapshot it. And I doubt the enemy will just keep his armor there and not drive away or blast you to bits before you can fire the MM next turn at regular BS.


Oh and The Chaos Geißel is called Defiler in English.

A good idea for guaranteed anti-tank capability is using a drop pod to drop a Dreadnought armed with a Multi Melta. Drop Pod Assault means turn 1 the pod lands without you having to roll for it, and the Dreadnought can fire its MM at 12" melta range without problems. If you make the dread venerable, it gets BS 5, so it's almost impossible to miss. 2D6 pen and boom...his armor is gone on turn 1 itself.

Or if you roll like I do that dread will always miss or fail to penetrate leaving your walker standing there with his pants down. :-)

I like Combi-Plasma, and Plasmagun or Combi Melta and Meltagun in a drop pod.

However now that I am using sentinels of terra I am thinking 10 man in a drop pod with heavy bolter, flamer, and thats it. and move all my other heavy weapons to the devastator slots.

 Sir Arun wrote:

Also, the idea of a multi melta in a drop pod is not good, as when it lands, you can only snapshot it. And I doubt the enemy will just keep his armor there and not driver away or blast you to bits before you can fire the MM next turn at regular BS.

Well... crap.
Now I went and got me a Devastatorbox and already assembled the multimelta guy...
With the Sarge having only a boltpistol and a chainsword.
I guess I'll just end up calling the Multimeltaguy a Devastator (there doesnt seem to be any difference in the model anyway) and use the Devastator Sarge for my Tactical Squad (back to Plan A with the Combimelta and the Rhino). Which kinda locks a multimelta into my Devastator Squad which im not sure I would use.. Ah hell.
Better get some magnets the next time

I am a firm believer that tac marines shouldn't be taking melta guns to as they should be shooting infantry to maximize the points you spend on bolter marines. In todays game every shot counts. I would do flamer, sarg with combi plasma (as it cost the same as a combi flamer so why not get a few instant kills)and melta bombs as well as a plasma cannon or heavy bolter to sit the other 5 guys back to hold objectives and kill enemy troopers.

multi meltas are only good on units that can move and shoot with them, such as land speeders, dreadnoughts, storm ravens and land raider crusader/redeemers

Well, its obvious the opinions differ Greatly at that.

Luckily for me, I had an metal Devastator lying around with a heavy bolter. That fits, so I can put the multimelta aside, possibly for later use in the Devastator Squad. Means now, no Plasma Cannon. Since the other squad is basically full plasma, I'm ok with that
Concerning the rest...

Sarge with Combi Melta
Melta
Heavy Bolter

I used the Sarge-Parts from my Devastator Squad and switched em around.
This leaves my not-yet-assembled-Devastator Squad with a Chainsword/Boltpistol Sarge.. Which is, considering the options, okish.
Adding a Rhino would do the "Rhinoblow", Drop Pod still an option.

Alright?

This leaves me with the following special Weapons (below 1k points):
1 Plasma Cannon
2 Plasma Guns
1 Melta
1 Heavy Bolter
1 Power Sword/Combi Plasma (HQ)

and 4 free Heavy Weapon Slots in the Devastator Squad. In which I should take....?

Thairne wrote:
Well, its obvious the opinions differ Greatly at that.

...

This leaves me with the following special Weapons (below 1k points):
1 Plasma Cannon
2 Plasma Guns
1 Melta
1 Heavy Bolter
1 Power Sword/Combi Plasma (HQ)

and 4 free Heavy Weapon Slots in the Devastator Squad. In which I should take....?

Different 40kers will always have differing ideas, makes the game more interesting.

That said, I think that for a Space Marine, your best bet will always be to pop enemy armor from a range. That means Lascannons or tons of Missile Launchers. Some people don't like Missile Launchers, and some have valid reasons for not preferring them, but I make very good use of them in my lists. I run a Devestator squad with two Lascannons and two Missile Launchers with Flakk Missiles. You can drop the flakk missiles if you don't think you need anti-air capabilities. A 7 man Dev squad built like that will cost you 168-188 depending on whether or not you take Flakk and will be a real threat to any armor you may run into. Using your Tactical Marines in suicidal melta runs should be considered a backup plan as they will almost always be more useful for staying alive and capturing objectives.

There was a thread on this very subject a week or two back, so it is not to buried on the depth chart here.... probably no further than 10 pages back at most. It isn't on Dark Angel Tactical squads, but it might give you some more insight.

I think what came down as the best all around load out for a squad was Las/Plas/Combi-Flamer. The Sargent also had a LC (if your looking to attack) or a Power Sword or Power Maul if you want to sit back and risk being charged (power weapons+pistol will give you an extra attack). Take a melta bomb for MC defense and to give you an option for dealing with vehicles in hand to hand and take a 10 man squad. This gives you the flexibility to effect AV 14, 2+ armor, hoard defense, and MC defense with added weight of bolter fire and some extra guys to soak wounds to protect the good guns.

I don't own the DA codex, so I don't know about any differences between then and the vanilla codex, but a tactical squad is a tactical squad for the most part.

Good luck!

Sounds good... But this time, I wait a day or so before I assemble my Dev-Squad . Don't wanna into the same again
Ofc you're right, running them right in is usually a bad idea.
I'm however still a bit fond of the Deep Strike Idea (Bikes Scout, Terminators and Drop Pod/ Rhino the Tac Squad in). With a total of, right now, slightly above 1000 points that leaves my army pretty concentrated, depending on the enemy. Doesn't sound too sucidal to me
My HQ with the Devs and another Tac could hang back, defend an objective or shoot stuff.

I plan to add a Dreadnought (Rifleman sounds good) plus a Command Squad to my HQ to give me a bit more versality and survivability, with a 2nd HQ choice ofc.

Ty, I'll go look for that thread. Wasn't aware there is one.
Luckily Tactical Squads aren't THAT expensive, getting another one to build after your specifications is possible ^^ Guess I'll play a few games and see.

I don't have a C:SM, but I think tacticals are pretty much the same for DA as for anyone else.

Really, magnets are your best choice to give you the most options. The other choice is get extra marines and make extra, but that can get expensive. Well, besides proxying everything.

Jep, I'm gonna try that. I need another box of tacticals to get some bodys, and with that I'll have bout 8+ bodys to experiment and magnetise... That should be sufficient for my first few games

also, if you're really good at spinning the fluff like i do, just tell people "its not a missile launcher, it counts as a lascannon because its using special high velocity fusion missiles" or in the case of my steel legion who lack many special weapons, i count my grenade launchers as meltas because they have special short range anti tank gyro rocket rounds. As long as your opponents are jerks and you are having fun you can do anything with justification. That multi melta? Its an alternate pattern plasma cannon, or maybe even an experimental short barrel lascannon prototype.

Combi-Flamer/Plasma, Multi-Melta, Plasma Gun/Flamer. Flexible against infantry, can pump a bit of AP2 fire into a harder unit when it *really* needs to die and the MM combat squad can entrench and add on an extra AP2+ shot for minimal cost. Yeah, it'll snapfire, but if you do get to fire it, and you probably will with its 24'' range, it can contribute to your AP2 pool quite well and make your opponent less likely to move in models like vehicles to certain areas. If you don't, well diddums, its not a great loss at 10 points.

Plasma Cannon is pretty naff honestly. I wouldn't give it to a home objective squad because I'd want more AT supporting fire, I wouldn't give it to a mechanized/drop squad because its A) not a multi-melta and B) 5 points more than a multi-melta, which is on the borderline for 'tacked on' upgrades as it is IMO. Good luck finding someone dumb enough to place all their Marines huddled together in a competitive environment, you'll be lucky to hit 3 models.

Heavy bolters suck because of previously stated reason A) and also because they're mediocre at what they're supposed to be best at.

I really prefer plasma for tac squads because it meshes very well with bolters. I certainly deploy melta and flamers, and now grav, but on other platforms.

If I'm using a razorback, I'll go las/plas or TL HF. The TL HF is not a weapon to be underestimated at all.

As for heavy weapons, I don't like wasting 56 pts worth of bolter fire, so I actually find the heavy bolter to be a decent choice. I've tried to get my tac squads out of the anti-tank business.