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So one of the biggest turn-offs to 40k for most of my friends is the expensive entry barrier. In considering this problem, I thought about whether it would be possible to "provide" an army for them, but leave them enough variety to let them customize their experience. To that end, I thought about what the basic strong builds are for each faction and whether or not I could afford to develop a few "core builds" to which they can add their own models/proxies. In time, these could grow into additional armies for me to use as well.

Now, I don't want to invest in every model and I know that builds/metas change a lot with each release, so I don't intend to buy everything on this list. I'd just like confirmation that I've covered the core units for each strategy (and whether they are competitive or not). I want 2 for each faction that are different enough to give dissimilar gaming experiences. (I'm skipping most of the marines, since I already have those and they can be counts-as'd very easily).

So without further ado:

Chaos Daemons:


Chaos Space Marines:


Dark Eldar:


Eldar:


IG:


Necrons:


Orks:


Space Marines:


Tau:


Sisters of Battle:


Tyranids:


That's about all I can think of. Hopefully if any of these pairs seems workable/affordable, I might try to build up some of the core units. Any help to better flesh out the build types and unit lists would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Updated 11/10

Thanks!

Ork's can get away with loota/dakkajet/big-gun spam since its all cheap enough to fit into a single list spammed

I'm proud to say that two of my four armies have 'no' competitive builds according to the OP. The other two I play purely casually.

IG competitive play usually relies on Space Wolf allies, ADL and big guns. How the mighty have fallen!

 Dakkamite wrote:
I'm proud to say that two of my four armies have 'no' competitive builds according to the OP. The other two I play purely casually.

I play two armies, both of which were listed by the OP, but I use none of his builds.

Yes, I am a filthy casual as well.

The only truly competitive build of Tyranids at the moment is:
2 Flyrants
2-3 Tervigons
Max out elite slots
Add Biovores/Gargoyles/spodded Dakkafex to taste.

Your suggested Necron build is not helping your friend overcome the pricey barrier to entry. Go with a straight up Necron Battleforce
20 warriors
5 immortals/deathmarks
5 canoptek scarab bases
1 GA

This is a great core force that can deal with most threats.

I would suggest he get this if he wants necrons and then add-on to it as he needs. First thing I did was buy the overlord w/CCB
played a few games to learn the army a bit and understand where I felt my weak points were compared to my style of play and then added on according to my play style.

I think the chaos 'helturkeys' build would do better with msu NM's packing Blastmasters backing them up rather than demon engines. The engines are cool, but they tend to get blown off the board. An av12 walker is an easy first blood.

And this way, you get a silly amount of ignoring cover weapons.

For Tau, you are looking at Broadsides with High Yield Missile Pods and Smart Missile System and Missile Drones (also known as Missilesides or Salvosides) and also usually Kroot over Firewarriors, as they can outflank.

Also, usually a Commander of some description, either with Drones for Markerlights, or with Support Wargear so the other units are buffed.

Most of the most competitive builds have allies. Tau/Tau for example. Tau/Dar.
That complicates things.

I find that Lootas in Battlewagons supporting Shoota boys is a good start to an Ork force. A warboss and small unit of meganobs will help take contested objectives, while some form of power claw on a bike is probably the best way to deal with heavily armoured vehicles if you don't take allies. Not the cheapest army to buy though, especially if you insist on using official GW miniatures.

For Necrons and Space Marines, I think getting loads of basic troops is often more important than having anything special. I've seen a lot more games won by tactical squads than any fancy 'overpowered' unit.

Sisters tend to build around:

2-3 Small Dominon squads in Multi-melta Immolators each with 3-4 meltas or flamers in the 5 woman squads
Small Sister squads (troops) in Multi-melta Immolators each with 2 meltas or flamers in the 5 woman squads
3 Exorcists
St Celestine
Priests with Power Mauls as they have Smash

You can go with large squads as well but not tried it myself and Serpahim are good but compete with Dominons for the FA slot..........

You need lots of Melta gun models!!!

Updated the OP. Thanks for the comments. If anyone else has other competitive builds or adjustments to my "core" lists, it's always appreciated.

I've reduced IG, Sisters, and 'Nids to 1 build each, since they seem to have less "competitive" builds out there right now, and each "core" is large enough to build different types of lists.

He didnt even bother to put DA, BA, or SW on the list. NO THEY ARE NOT c;sm

-Jetseer Council (Core: 1+ Farseer, Jetlocks, Windrider Jetbikes)
-Wave Serpent Spam (Core: DA or WG, WS for each)

Glad to see that you haven't put Iyanden builds up there.

 namiel wrote:
He didnt even bother to put DA, BA, or SW on the list. NO THEY ARE NOT c;sm

I never said they were. The point of this exercise is finding core lists that I can build so that my friends don't have to buy all of the models before they can play. I want to be able to hand them their choice of core build and they can add to it with either proxies or their own models. For all of the marine 'dexes, there is a great deal of overlap in terms of competitive build options, so having a selection of vanilla marines should cover the majority of builds for DA, BA, and SW via counts-as, like I said in my original post. So if a friend wants to play Ravenwing, they can use the grav-bikes as counts-as, and so on.

Ultimately, this is just a (hypothetical) stop-gap measure to help my friends get into the game. If they find an army they like, then they can build it however they want, competitive or not. What I don't want to do is buy a few battleforces for them to use and then constantly stomp them with my own competitive lists or have them never use any of the actual models for their faction. This way, I don't have to dumb-down my own lists (which neither my friends nor I want to do), and we don't have to play entirely with proxies for everything (which is better for overall gameplay).

 wuestenfux wrote:

-Jetseer Council (Core: 1+ Farseer, Jetlocks, Windrider Jetbikes)
-Wave Serpent Spam (Core: DA or WG, WS for each)

Glad to see that you haven't put Iyanden builds up there.

Supplement stuff is practically the same from a model standpoint, so I didn't include any of them there. I figured we could always just counts-as or proxy the extra stuff anyway.

 Xca|iber wrote:

 namiel wrote:
He didnt even bother to put DA, BA, or SW on the list. NO THEY ARE NOT c;sm

I never said they were. The point of this exercise is finding core lists that I can build so that my friends don't have to buy all of the models before they can play. I want to be able to hand them their choice of core build and they can add to it with either proxies or their own models. For all of the marine 'dexes, there is a great deal of overlap in terms of competitive build options, so having a selection of vanilla marines should cover the majority of builds for DA, BA, and SW via counts-as, like I said in my original post. So if a friend wants to play Ravenwing, they can use the grav-bikes as counts-as, and so on.

Ultimately, this is just a (hypothetical) stop-gap measure to help my friends get into the game. If they find an army they like, then they can build it however they want, competitive or not. What I don't want to do is buy a few battleforces for them to use and then constantly stomp them with my own competitive lists or have them never use any of the actual models for their faction. This way, I don't have to dumb-down my own lists (which neither my friends nor I want to do), and we don't have to play entirely with proxies for everything (which is better for overall gameplay).

I was pointing it out because simply these books dont have unique builds that can be competitive. Which is very sad

If I may:

Dark Eldar have the advantage (and simultaneous disadvantage) of being very difficult to use effectively. That being said, they have a lot of versatility, which attributes to their high skill curve. There is a general standard that I see in competitive DE lists, and that is this:

TAC list: Archon/Duke/Haemonculus HQ w/ escort in a Raider, 1-2 Vanilla Kabalite Squads in Raiders, 1-2 Blaster Trueborn Squads in Venoms, 2+ Ravagers. Add/remove squads for flavor.

There are numerous other ways to play them effectively, but this is the most straightforward, and I believe covers the most bases as a Take all comers list.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
If I may:

Dark Eldar have the advantage (and simultaneous disadvantage) of being very difficult to use effectively. That being said, they have a lot of versatility, which attributes to their high skill curve. There is a general standard that I see in competitive DE lists, and that is this:

TAC list: Archon/Duke/Haemonculus HQ w/ escort in a Raider, 1-2 Vanilla Kabalite Squads in Raiders, 1-2 Blaster Trueborn Squads in Venoms, 2+ Ravagers. Add/remove squads for flavor.

There are numerous other ways to play them effectively, but this is the most straightforward, and I believe covers the most bases as a Take all comers list.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Thanks!

 Xca|iber wrote:
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Thanks!

Glad I could help!

Competitive list for DE is Venom Spam. Get as many as you can into a list. Troops: Warriors all with a single blaster. Elites Blasterborne or double Splinter Cannons. Fill in the heavies with Ravagers (all DL). Generally not seen too often as it is a tricky list to play, and you either win big or lose big.

Is this the cookie cutter list thread for the lazy?

Dark Eldar competitive lists are Venom Spam and Double Beast Star. Venom Spam is how is sounds, at least 5 venoms and 3 Ravagers with a splattering of Reavers or Allied Eldar Wraithknight. Double Beast Star is The Baron and an Allied Farseer leading two Beast Packs with Troops in venoms.

I disagree with the Typhus CSM list. Everything on the list is crazy expensive. Sure it is tough, but with the abundance of cheap, high str, low AP weapons in the latest codices I think the fact that they are tough isn't as useful as it used to be. When the new CSM book first dropped this was a viable list though. Competitive CSM is looking like Heldrakes, cheap troops, MSU Blastmaster NM, and a Juggerlord with Spawn or Bikes.

"-Crisis Suit Spam (Farsight, Shadowsun, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Kroot)" That is not a legal list since FAQ.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Is this the cookie cutter list thread for the lazy?

Basically, yes. Cookie cutter lists are powerful and easy to use. Mostly "point and click". Great for introducing people to the game, in my experience.

One of the phenomena I've run into as I've learned 40k is that even 'casual' lists can cause lots of problems for inexperienced players - so altering my own lists to be more casual is not always a 100% solution. By giving a new player a list that's already been optimized, I don't have to worry quite as much about accidentally giving them a bad matchup.

Likewise, by having a few "core units" on hand, if I want to introduce someone to the game I don't need to give the shameful "yeah the game is fun but... you'll need to pay an arm and a leg to start" speech. I can just hand them the rules and some starting models, then let them proxy the rest. Instant gameplay.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Dark Eldar competitive lists are Venom Spam and Double Beast Star. Venom Spam is how is sounds, at least 5 venoms and 3 Ravagers with a splattering of Reavers or Allied Eldar Wraithknight. Double Beast Star is The Baron and an Allied Farseer leading two Beast Packs with Troops in venoms.

I'll try to work with that, thanks.

jitactical wrote:
I disagree with the Typhus CSM list. Everything on the list is crazy expensive. Sure it is tough, but with the abundance of cheap, high str, low AP weapons in the latest codices I think the fact that they are tough isn't as useful as it used to be. When the new CSM book first dropped this was a viable list though. Competitive CSM is looking like Heldrakes, cheap troops, MSU Blastmaster NM, and a Juggerlord with Spawn or Bikes.

I've already got that second one you've suggested. While the Typhus stuff may not be the most competitive, it's different than the heldrake spam (or can be combined with it) so should provide an 'alternative' so to speak, that won't immediately get crushed except by really well-optimized Tau or Eldar lists.

lynxstrife wrote:
"-Crisis Suit Spam (Farsight, Shadowsun, Crisis Suits, Broadsides, Kroot)" That is not a legal list since FAQ.

Thanks, I hadn't seen the new FAQ.

Daemons.
Rush Spam, one unit of dogs screamers and seekers each with herald, fateweaver and troops.


CSM
Oblits, Fiends, And Bike Lord/Sorc, also having abbadon with cultists wouldn't be bad as it works in most lists.

Dark Eldar
Leave the venom spam, Beastpack is better fielded as an ally to Eldar than the other way around. TAC lists are not for people starting out with point and click.

Eldar
Wave Serpent Spam Requires 2 wraithknights, Also a very good build for starting people out on eldar is

2x farseer
2x 20 guardians with 2xBL 2x wave serpent with field, cannon, TL-SL
2x wraithknight
2x 3 man jetbike units
2x 7 man warp spiders

Gives them access to basically every good unit in the book and allows them to find out what they like, and or how to use everything.

IG
With forgeworld is the most point and click army in the game, same basic but it drops everything for basically forgeworld artillary.

Necrons
Croissant spam, pure flyers, with/without deathmarks/crypteks/overlords.
Scarab Farm is still good if used properly

Orks
Green tide would probably still be alot of fun to play 6x30 boys

Space Marines
Flyer spam 3x storm raven 3x storm talon, drop pods
Tac squad spam, drop pod or rhino wall, ultramarine, iron fists supplement, or white scars, either scout or use calgar for tactics.
There are also variants in the FW chapter tactics books that are highly competative, but haven't been explored on the net yet.

Tau
The Firewarrior Castle is still there, but has fallen out of favor as people go away from book missions and towards 5+ objectives on the table.

Sisters
I would avoid this, playtesting is starting to show that it just can't cripple most competative armies hard enough before it starts to get eaten.

Tyranids
Swarmlord lead tyranids still have a shot.

Space Wolves
Can be proxied but 40+ wolf guard drop pod list

Grey Knights
Can't really be proxied, shunting dreadknights with stormraven and henchmen support. Either spam henchmen behind an aegis or razorback spam is still very effective.