Is the Kroot Shaper worth it?

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**Sir Arun**

Having just recently procured a 2001 Games Day Limited Edition Angkor Prok model, I was wondering whether you don't leave home wihout a Shaper to guide your Kroot.

In the old codex he cost a staggering 21 points, now he is cheaper and (I think) hasnt dropped in stats. So while the Shas'ui merely adds an attack value and LD value to his squad, the Shaper adds the much needed LD boost, as well as 2 attacks and 2 more wounds to the squad. He also gets the opportunity to purchase a Pulse rifle, giving 6" to his gun' max fire range, 3" to its rapid fire range and +1S.

**Savageconvoy**

I don't think he's worth it really. He's only a point or two cheaper than in the previous codex and doesn't really provide the squad with anything that more kroot or hounds for extra wounds wouldn't provide.

The shaper will be picked off in a challenge or can be sniped rather easily since he still has only a 6+ save and T3. The option for a single pulse rifle is also rather pointless since there isn't much a single pulse rifle could do that kroot rifles couldn't handle. Really the only stat that matters for him is his LD buff which can be mitigated by taking more kroot. 20 Kroot and 1 hound makes 6 wounds before a morale check is actually fairly survivable.

**Sir Arun**

He actually dropped from 21 points down to 15 points.

I guess your argument can be applied to Shas'ui as well by that logic.

But having played games I have seen how quickly my guys run away, so I'll see if taking the upgrade pays off next game.

**Savageconvoy**

I'd say the same thing about the Shas'ui upgrade since firewarriors can't get any gear outside of drones to support their squad and his only noticeable buff is increasing the leadership of the unit. Really I think the ethereal may be the more cost effective means of dealing with leadership if you're having such an issue with troops running away.

Originally the shaper cost 20 points I think. But now you pay to upgrade one Kroot to a shaper for a total of 21 points for the one model. Again, it's a lot of points for what's basically 1 kroot that costs as much as 3.

**Sir Arun**

...and has as many attacks and wounds as three and ups the LD, but only carries one gun instead of two more.

**Vineheart01**

Kroot are kinda throwaway units. Infiltrate, snipe snipe, wonder how long they last. i wouldnt pay that kinda points to make them LD8. Usually i dont even make a leadership on them, they just get wiped off the board.

Also his "upgraded weapons" are kinda lame lol. Hes way more expensive than any firewarrior with that weapon and considerably squishier (just slightly better at melee).

To me, outside the leadership bonus the only unit worth getting the character upgrade for is stealth suits and thats because of homing beacon tricks more than the leadership.

**Treavous**

something of note:
The pulse rifle does let your snipers reach a little farther for wound allocation ( if your not using a krootox), that being said it is pricey for a fragile model.

**juraigamer**

If you are running 10 man units, don't really bother with a shaper.

If you have 20 man units, a shaper can save your ass.

If you take many 20 man units of kroot, an ethereal in a fish nearby is far better than 3-4 shapers.

**Jancoran**

Shapers are a terrible investment. Always have been it seems. I have yet to see a competitive player take one, save one guy at our shop that never plays but swears they are "important" for challenges. I'm unconvinced, but I can at least SEE that argument because at times, you lose an entire kroot squad over your nigh nonexistent saves and avoiding a couple extra wounds from a super character might help... but not often enough to pay that.

**Savageconvoy**

That's actually an interesting point. Only problem is that it'd only take something like a sarge in the opponent's unit along with an IC to really put that plan to rest. Really I think the Kroot are fine where they're at. I've rarely had leadership issues due to their large squad size. While not a CC deathstar, they can conga line to really abuse Supporting Fire and they are decent enough at close combat to them useable at it. It's always funny to see a guard player's face when he finds out you have AP5 melee weapons.

I'm still a bit bothered honestly that with models like the ethereal and the fireknife that kroot couldn't have gotten a shaper that's actually a support for the squad. Then again, I think they're already my favorite unit in the entire book already so it's not like I'm really disappointed in them.

**Sir Arun**

Savageconvoy wrote:
It's always funny to see a guard player's face when he finds out you have AP5 melee weapons.

Now THIS is an interesting fact i had completely overlooked.

I wished they had brought back Angkor Prok as the Kroot IC, hopefully they will in a Merc supplement sometime.

**Thud**

Jancoran wrote:
Shapers are a terrible investment. Always have been it seems. I have yet to see a competitive player take one, save one guy at our shop that never plays but swears they are "important" for challenges. I'm unconvinced, but I can at least SEE that argument because at times, you lose an entire kroot squad over your nigh nonexistent saves and avoiding a couple extra wounds from a super character might help... but not often enough to pay that.

IMO, even that would be a detriment.

If 20 Kroot including a Shaper get assaulted by mega-killy-character-of-doom and you go for the challenge, the Shaper dies and the Kroot lose combat by one. Not exactly super likely to stick around, but more likely than the alternative, which is super-killy murders 5-6 Kroot.

But isn't that good? No. It's bad. Very bad.

If your Kroot survive the assault, what do you think will happen in your turn? That's right. Kroot get rolled.

At least, if the Kroot fall apart on the charge, you get to shoot super-killy.

**Jancoran**

One more reason to remain unconvinced...Unless... they are THE line that must be held. They are a scoring unit that will often be sitting on objectives late games, taking charges they'd love not to because they have no choice. Its them or no one.

Angkor Prok was an obvious thing they could have done, but of course... No. And let's be brutally honest here: the codex is already strong. Perhaps he is a guilty pleasure we would have liked to have but ultimately... Not necessary probably.