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As a Dark Angels player, what are some good units to include in a 1850 point army to go up against Imperial Fists?

I know I'm going to include a PFG librarian on a bike with a ravenwing command squad and probably just go full Ravenwing, but I'm not sure exactly what to put in it.

I could also go triple Land Raider spam, it is what has won me all my games so far in my LGS 40k league.

RW Knights or RW command squad should work well. I'd try to fit a squad in.

Fists will eat up land raiders with their Tank Hunters Devastators, and as thats half the chapter tactic, you better believe theres gonna be dev squads. Ravenwing Black Knights / Command squad is one of my favourite units in DA, highly recommend. As the Fists abilities are geared to Dev squads and Bolter fire, ut vehicles don't get chapter tactics, I play my fists as a more infantry force than say DA or Iron Hands, so going dakkabanner with a full Ravenwing list could be very doable.

I've tabled the last 3 marine players I've played, 2 using IF chapter tactics.

My list is roughly:
Sammael,
Librarian w/PFG
RW command squad, apothecary, banner of devastation

3 x ravenwing squads, melta attabk bike, speeders (mix of typhoon and tornado)

darkshroud
squadron of 2 more typhoons
3 x black knights

vindicator

pretty simple tactics, bolter things that die to bolter fire, missiles, assault cannon, melta, and demolisher cannon rounds to everything that doesn't. Don't forget to use the rad grenades from your black knights, dropping marines to T3 and then shooting them with 24 TL bolters should eat a tac squad a turn.

Speeders are suprisingly durable, and your opponent will hate himself for shooting expensive AT weapons at them and seeing you make jink saves(once he's wrecked the vindicator anyway)

Or go land raider spam, the PFG invul and a techmarine to keep the banners ride in good shape should help you live long enough to single out the Devs.

Hmm, shooting those Chapter Tactic buffed Heavy Bolters at those Speeders usually makes quick work of them. Not sure those tabled players were any good if you did as well as you did with those units you brought.

Not saying you didn't use awesome tactics, but I don't see how I'd lose with my IFs to those DAs (I field both armies) without making some claring mistakes.

Bikes and Vindicators die to Grav weapons quite handily, even with an imbedded PFG.

 piping_piper wrote:
I've tabled the last 3 marine players I've played, 2 using IF chapter tactics.

My list is roughly:
Sammael,
Librarian w/PFG
RW command squad, apothecary, banner of devastation

3 x ravenwing squads, melta attabk bike, speeders (mix of typhoon and tornado)

darkshroud
squadron of 2 more typhoons
3 x black knights

vindicator

pretty simple tactics, bolter things that die to bolter fire, missiles, assault cannon, melta, and demolisher cannon rounds to everything that doesn't. Don't forget to use the rad grenades from your black knights, dropping marines to T3 and then shooting them with 24 TL bolters should eat a tac squad a turn.

Speeders are suprisingly durable, and your opponent will hate himself for shooting expensive AT weapons at them and seeing you make jink saves(once he's wrecked the vindicator anyway)

Or go land raider spam, the PFG invul and a techmarine to keep the banners ride in good shape should help you live long enough to single out the Devs.

I wish I had enough Land Speeders to pull this off, but I only have 3...

Triple land raider plus the bolter banner.

What's not to love?

I am thinking of possibly a mix of the two? Do a LRC with the dakka banner inside, surrounded by bikes and speeders. PFG librarian can give the LRC the invul save and give whatever psychic powers he need to whoever needs them. One LRC may be a bit fragile, but you can move 12" every turn, and shoot 24" 4-shot bolters with your whole army essentially. Could be good fun.

As for the squad inside, you could do a deathwing command squad with some shields and an apothecary, just in case the LRC dies, it's a sturdy 2+ 3++ FNP platform to hold the banner. Could maybe put a regular librarian in with em too to give them prescience etc if need be. Might be too many points though.

- VardenV2

 labmouse42 wrote:
Triple land raider plus the bolter banner.

What's not to love?

I thought the bolter banner and the PFG only worked on embarked upon dedicated transport. Please correct me if i am wrong.

PFG doesn't even worked on the embarked vehicle, you have to put someone on a bike following behind it to benefit your raiders. Banner does however use the vehicle as the footprint so that 6" bubble in a raider is pretty freaking huge

^ Thanks

I was not aware the banner affected the area around the vehicle as well. That makes a huge, huge difference and I feel like that makes the dakka pole way more effective. Time to go in list revise-mode. I was a dedicated black knight guy but that combo is too good to pass up.

There are two ways I've seen the list ran.

First people bring the bolter banner in a LRC (remember, those hurricane bolters become salvo 24 twin lined bolters too) and surround it by bikes.

The second thing I see people do is bring three or four LRCs with the bolter banner in the middle one. This has less dakka than the bike method, but is more durable.

I don't like the LRC + salvo bikes option, personally. You're using the bikes' Relentless nicely, of course, but you're sacrificing their scout move, and generally their speed, too, which for me is too big a waste.

Whatever you can do, he can do too. Your both meq & have very similar lists to choose from. 1 sternpod split into 5 man squads, turn 1 will put a hurt on the LR/bike spam list. Its probably been talked about 100 times so far, so its obviously common. Sternpod is obviously a choice for CFs, but much harder to prep for without a lot of intercept.

 Red Marine wrote:
Whatever you can do, he can do too. Your both meq & have very similar lists to choose from. 1 sternpod split into 5 man squads, turn 1 will put a hurt on the LR/bike spam list. Its probably been talked about 100 times so far, so its obviously common. Sternpod is obviously a choice for CFs, but much harder to prep for without a lot of intercept.

He makes a good point here. He can drop a pod behind your LRC, kill the PFG librarian with one squad, then melta the LRC with the other. However, that's why I would recommend keeping Azrael with a regular power armored command squad inside, as it keeps the banner in 3 "layers" of protection. LRC armor, then LRC invul from PFG behind it, then 4+ invul from Azrael. It's a lot of effort to kill that banner, and anything that gets close is going to get killed the next turn. He's going to be pumping a lot of resources into killing that one banner squad.

A thing to keep in mind though is that the banner most likely will go down. So, having a good bike list that works fine w/o the banner is still essential. The banner should be an added bonus / buff, not the core of the army.

- VardenV2

Ofc this is why, as a DA player myself. I would be more likely to ignore the banner squad and focus down your troops. But some that doesn't understand the DA will see the LR with a 4++ melee command squad + azzy as the center piece and focus it down. Which.tbh is what you want them to do.