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Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/20/world/asia/north-korea-detained-american/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

An 85-year-old American man on an organized tour of North Korea was pulled off a plane in Pyongyang just minutes before it was to depart, the man's son told CNN on Wednesday.
The family has had no contact with Merrill Newman of Palo Alto, California, since he was detained on October 26, his son Jeff Newman said.
"This is a misunderstanding. My father is a (Korean War) veteran and wanted to see the country and culture he has been interested in for years," Jeff Newman said. "He arranged this with a travel agent that was recommended and said was approved by the North Korean government for travel of foreigners. He had all the proper visas."

The U.S. State Department is working to resolve the matter with North Korea's top ally, China.
Ambassador Glyn Davies, the U.S. special representative for North Korean policy, met with his Chinese counterpart in Beijing for several hours Thursday.
"We are working very hard ... to try to move this issue along," Davies said after the session. "We certainly think that North Korea should think long and hard about (this) and understand that for the United States, this is a matter of core concern for us."

The relationship between North Korea and Washington has been especially testy in recent years as the United States and other world powers have tried to limit the nation's nuclear ambitions.
On Tuesday, the State Department warned Americans not to travel to North Korea.

Previously, the agency had warned U.S. citizens of the "serious risks" of travel to the reclusive country -- including arbitrary arrest for what would be innocuous acts elsewhere. But its last travel warning, issued on October 1, didn't include the stronger language advising against all travel.

Newman's arrest appears to be "an indication that North Korea seems not to be seeking a better relationship with United States," Davies said. "They are not taking action to address our concerns."
Jeff Newman said his family has been working through the State Department since they found out that his father was being held.

"We've worked through the State Department from the day he was supposed to depart," Newman said later on CNN's AC360. "... We've heard nothing."
Newman said what he has heard has primarily come from his father's traveling companion, who was on the plane when he was taken off. He identified the traveling companion as Bob Hamrdla, a friend who lives in the same retirement community.

North Korea has not publicly acknowledged it detained Newman. But the family believes the elder Newman's military service during the Korean War may be related to his detention, his son said.
Park Syung-je, chairman of the Seoul-based Asia Strategy Institute, says Newman may have been arrested on espionage charges.

As a Korean War veteran, Newman might have told his minders he fought against North Korea. They may have reported it, and it resulted in his detention.
Pyongyang previously announced that the safety of Americans cannot be guaranteed on North Korean soil.

The day before Newman was to leave North Korea, he and his tour guide met with "one or two Korean authorities," his son said.
During that meeting, Newman's service record was discussed, he said.
"I understand my dad was a bit bothered," Newman said. But neither he nor his traveling companion believed there was an issue.
The next day, Newman and Hamrdla boarded a plane for Beijing.
Five minutes before the plane was to depart, authorities boarded and asked to see Newman's passport, his son said.

According to the traveling companion's account, the authorities then asked the elder Newman to leave the plane with them, Jeff Newman said.
When the plane landed, Hamrdla immediately contacted the U.S. Embassy in Beijing to report Newman had been taken off the plane, the younger Newman said.

The elder Newman was enjoying the trip and called home from North Korea to tell his wife about it, his son said. The family also received postcards sent by Newman during the tour of North Korea, he said.

The younger Newman called his father "old school," saying he never talked about his service and the Korean War.
The trip to North Korean was "months in the planning," the younger Newman said. His father and Hamrdla booked the trip through a Chinese tour company that set up the tour, which included the services of two tour guides.
"It was the trip of a lifetime," he said.

The elder Newman suffers from a heart condition, his son said. Medication was delivered to the North Koreans via Swedish diplomats, but he said he is unsure if the medication made it into his father's hands.

"We would like to know his status. We would like the Swedish Embassy to meet with him to ensure he's getting his medication," Jeff Newman said. "At the end of the day, we'd like him to get on a plane and fly back to San Francisco. He's an 85-year-old man who followed all the protocols. He did everything that he was supposed to do."
Other detentions

Newman is the second American being held in North Korean.
Kenneth Bae, an American citizen, was arrested in November 2012 and sentenced in May to 15 years of hard labor. The North Korean government has said he was found guilty of "hostile acts" and attempts to topple the government.

North Korean authorities have arrested four U.S. citizens for entering the country illegally since January 2009, the State Department said in its travel advisory Tuesday.
Two other U.S. citizens who entered the country on valid visas were arrested for other reasons, and U.S. officials have received reports of other Americans being arbitrarily detained, according to the State Department.

South Koreans have also been detained.
In 1999, a South Korean woman named Min Young-mee was detained for six days after apparently saying the wrong thing on a tour to North Korea's Kumkang Mountains.
"I hope the two Koreas reunite soon so we can visit each other," Min said. "North Korean defectors are living well in the South."
A North Korean minder for the tour group reported her remarks to North Korean authorities. She wasn't allowed to return home with her tour group. After a written apology for violating North Korean laws, she safely returned to the South.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Sorry, but why the feth would you go back to a country you fought against, especially when the government that is in place since you left there is worse than anyone imagined when it took over?

I mean, I have absolutely no aspiration or desire to take a holiday to Iraq in 30-40 years time, I hated it then, and I'd be willing to bet money I'd hate it later on too.


While I have some sympathy for the plight he's in, as NK is not a country I'd want arresting me, I don't really because this guy thought it a good idea to go visit there.... Californians

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/21 13:56:21


 
   
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Fort Campbell

If Afghanistan ever settles down, I'd love to visit it. I can understand the compulsion, and being 85 he probably felt his time was running out.

Sounds like he took all the precautions he could, but sometimes you just can't account for crazy, and if anything sums of N. Korea, crazy is it.

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Southern California, USA

Why is this country still around? Not even due to us not invading, but how does it maintain itself with how flying rodent gak crazy it's leaders are?

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Random people being detained for no reason? Business as usual in North Korea.

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 -Shrike- wrote:
Random people being detained for no reason? Business as usual in North Korea.


He's not exactly random, is he? He used to be an enemy soldier. People get detained for less in "democratic" countries.

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 djones520 wrote:
If Afghanistan ever settles down, I'd love to visit it.


I think the trick here is that NK hasn't 'settled down'. Don't we have warnings about not going to North Korea as well?

We do, from the State Dapt. Website:

The Department of State recommends against all travel by U.S. citizens to North Korea (Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or DPRK). This replaces the Travel Warning for North Korea of October 1, to update information on the risk of arbitrary arrest and detention of U.S. citizens in North Korea.

Travel by U.S. citizens to North Korea is not routine, and U.S. citizens crossing into North Korea, even accidentally, have been subject to arbitrary arrest and long-term detention. Since January 2009, four U.S. citizens have been arrested for entering North Korea illegally, and two U.S. citizens who entered on valid DPRK visas were arrested inside North Korea on other charges. The Department of State has also received reports of DPRK authorities arbitrarily detaining U.S. citizens and not allowing them to depart the country.

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I say we carpet bomb Korea with rice bags.

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The Great State of Texas

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 -Shrike- wrote:
Random people being detained for no reason? Business as usual in North Korea.


He's not exactly random, is he? He used to be an enemy soldier. People get detained for less in "democratic" countries.


Really? Please cite one instance where an enemy soldier was arrested 62 years later.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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My grandpa got arrested in germany.....but the may have been for the drunken misconduct sharge, but he got arrested after the war

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Aren't you still at war with Korea ? If only on a technicality ?


edit

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/05/are_we_at_war_with_north_korea.html

ah, so no, but yes, but you were never actually at war anyway.

Glad we cleared that up.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/21 18:05:21


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 reds8n wrote:


Aren't you still at war with Korea ? If only on a technicality ?


So are you actually and every other country in the UN.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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The war ended, but if they ever so much try to launch an assault on us, they will be reenacting Fallout not soon after

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 Frazzled wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 -Shrike- wrote:
Random people being detained for no reason? Business as usual in North Korea.


He's not exactly random, is he? He used to be an enemy soldier. People get detained for less in "democratic" countries.


Really? Please cite one instance where an enemy soldier was arrested 62 years later.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/20/world/asia/north-korea-detained-american/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I said for less. Like, for having the same skin tone as a supposed enemy.

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The Great State of Texas

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The war ended, but if they ever so much try to launch an assault on us, they will be reenacting Fallout not soon after

Actually it didn't. We're just in an armistice - a ceasefire.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Well, that is another failure of the public school system

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well, that is another failure of the public school system


Or you just didn't bother listening when the war was covered, cause they certainly explained that when I went through.

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The Great State of Texas

I'm surprised they even covered the war at all. They usually don't.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
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Fort Campbell

 Frazzled wrote:
I'm surprised they even covered the war at all. They usually don't.


My 9th grade history class actually had some vets come in and share experiences.

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 Frazzled wrote:
Really? Please cite one instance where an enemy soldier was arrested 62 years later.


I forget how long it was ago, but less than 10 years, where a Nazi soldier was formally arrested in one of the "democratic" countries. I know of at least 2 that were "detained" in the US pretty recently and are awaiting deportation to any country that will take them (probably for prosecution for war crimes), while you might not consider these as arrests, they are still sitting in a detention cell waiting for "trial", so pretty much the same thing.

Now, you might argue that these are different, the North Korean leaders would disagree there was any difference (which is crazy, but it's North Korea).

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SS...certain type of camps comes to mind on those two....

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Regular Dakkanaut





 Frazzled wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 -Shrike- wrote:
Random people being detained for no reason? Business as usual in North Korea.


He's not exactly random, is he? He used to be an enemy soldier. People get detained for less in "democratic" countries.


Really? Please cite one instance where an enemy soldier was arrested 62 years later.


http://news.sky.com/story/1087498/alleged-nazi-ss-auschwitz-guard-93-arrested
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/424890/SS-Nazi-guards-face-arrest
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/12/nazi-d09.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/436054/Former-Nazi-SS-captain-Erich-Priebke-who-was-sentenced-for-WW2-massacre-dies-aged-100

Also, some Cortiam Araj's commando (another SS unit) took some time to extradite and charge, Mossad also hunted down and killed others (but only ever openly admitted to one of the executions). However, unlike this veteran, they do actually have a reason to be arrested.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/21 22:55:48


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The war ended, but if they ever so much try to launch an assault on us, they will be reenacting Fallout not soon after



Hate to burst your bubble but Nope. We're in a "ceasefire" and it was already covered, we were never at "war" with Korea. It, like Vietnam was a "police action" since congress never officially declared war on them.
   
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I feel sad that he is imprisoned, but the level of sadness I feel is deeply tempered by the fact he seems to have gone to some lengths to essentially manufacture his current predicament - he should have followed Treach's timeless wisdom on these matters.

I hope we can get him released, regardless.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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Someone had their bad idea jeans on when this trip was conceived and carried out:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NBAyYBHJhPQ
   
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The Void

Terrible idea, hope they can recover the old guy in short order though.

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