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So, long story short, the new weekly supplement is for Iron Hands and includes an item (Gorgon Chain) that is basically another Shield Eternal, giving a 3+ invul/EW/+1 to FNP roll at full wounds, 3+ invul/EW after taking a wound, 3+ invul after taking 2, and a 4+ invul after taking 3. So, it's not quite as good as the Shield Eternal, but it is a bit cheaper. It's worth noting that you regain the better effects if you pass your IWND roll.

The question then becomes, is it worth allying C:SM with itself to basically get two of the EW Chapter Master beatsticks? You'd probably want to go IH/WS to give your bike squads all the badass bike buffs while giving your vehicles (the standard anti-flyer options) IWND. I envision quite a few bikes with Stormravens and TFCs backing them up. Any thoughts? Would this be putting too many eggs in one basket? Have you found the original EW Chapter Master to be all he was cracked up to be?

Edit: It also just occurred to me that the Gorgon Chain is not a shield, which means the CM's other hand is open for once. Another new item is similar to a Thunder Hammer (+2S/AP2/Unwieldy/Mastercrafted/+4S on 6 to hit) except it is not Specialist, which means you could still rock a pistol for 5 attacks (MC too!).

Plus in a command squad with apothecary this dude gets a 4+ FnP or a 3+ if he rolls the right warlord trait.
This seriously makes me roll my eyes at the gigantic boner GW is showing towards Space Marines, whie continuing to give CSM the finger.

I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

True. However, with a bike army you could fit up to three and still have plenty of room for bike troops.

I mostly envision them tanking for their respective squads. They can soak up a lot of firepower, while keeping the Grav guns in their squad safe. This is especially true with a command squad, due to the FNP and sheer number of Grav weapons. Obviously, once you get close enough, let the bad boy loose on your opponent's line. He can pretty much fight anything except Abaddon or a Swarmlord.

With Codex: Inquisition out, bike armies also need a replacement for Khan... in steps the Gorgon Chain beatstick! (which tg already nicknamed Smash@#$%er)

 McNinja wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

True. However, with a bike army you could fit up to three and still have plenty of room for bike troops.

That's what I was thinking. A lot of players will field the double chapter master beat stick Rauukan allied with standard Iron Hands simply because they can. Even though it's unnecessary it's also not uncompetitive. Players do like their beat sticks so expect to see it around.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

True. However, with a bike army you could fit up to three and still have plenty of room for bike troops.

That's what I was thinking. A lot of players will field the double chapter master beat stick Rauukan allied with standard Iron Hands simply because they can. Even though it's unnecessary it's also not uncompetitive. Players do like their beat sticks so expect to see it around.

That's a thought. I do prefer white scars for that scout move though.

 McNinja wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

True. However, with a bike army you could fit up to three and still have plenty of room for bike troops.

That's what I was thinking. A lot of players will field the double chapter master beat stick Rauukan allied with standard Iron Hands simply because they can. Even though it's unnecessary it's also not uncompetitive. Players do like their beat sticks so expect to see it around.

That's a thought. I do prefer white scars for that scout move though.

Agreed, although I'd do it more for the Hit and Run. A melee monster getting bogged down in fearless combats is a real bummer.

 magodedisco wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think more than one CM beatstick would be needed in most armies.

True. However, with a bike army you could fit up to three and still have plenty of room for bike troops.

That's what I was thinking. A lot of players will field the double chapter master beat stick Rauukan allied with standard Iron Hands simply because they can. Even though it's unnecessary it's also not uncompetitive. Players do like their beat sticks so expect to see it around.

That's a thought. I do prefer white scars for that scout move though.

Agreed, although I'd do it more for the Hit and Run. A melee monster getting bogged down in fearless combats is a real bummer.

I'd rather be bogged down in combat with a unit I know I can win against than sweep an easy target in a turn and be blown away in the enemy turn.

Nobody forces you use H&R if you do not wish to do so

Woke up this morning from a fevered dream with a crazy idea: Attaching the two Chapter Master beat-sticks (and Khan) to a TFC at the start of the game. You're limiting your movement quite a bit, but you can't assault turn 1 anyway. You still want to deploy agressive adn get that scout move. So, essentially either way you're gonna be taking a round of shooting on the chin. The toughness 7 of the TFC applies to the entire unit and is especially effective against Wave Serpents and Broadsides (two very common choices).
Obviously, once you get close enough, you can leave it behind and go start smashing into the gun-line. It goes without saying that this isn't a tactic you should use in every game, but against a dedicated gunline, T7 is no joke.

 magodedisco wrote:
Woke up this morning from a fevered dream with a crazy idea: Attaching the two Chapter Master beat-sticks (and Khan) to a TFC at the start of the game. You're limiting your movement quite a bit, but you can't assault turn 1 anyway. You still want to deploy agressive adn get that scout move. So, essentially either way you're gonna be taking a round of shooting on the chin. The toughness 7 of the TFC applies to the entire unit and is especially effective against Wave Serpents and Broadsides (two very common choices).
Obviously, once you get close enough, you can leave it behind and go start smashing into the gun-line. It goes without saying that this isn't a tactic you should use in every game, but against a dedicated gunline, T7 is no joke.

I really don't think you have though this through. This either results in your TFC being easier for the enemy to get to and destroy, or it results in the characters taking longer to get to the enemy, and thus taking a round of shooting on their T5 anyway (and I'm still not sure why you think that T5 isn't good enough).

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 magodedisco wrote:
Woke up this morning from a fevered dream with a crazy idea: Attaching the two Chapter Master beat-sticks (and Khan) to a TFC at the start of the game. You're limiting your movement quite a bit, but you can't assault turn 1 anyway. You still want to deploy agressive adn get that scout move. So, essentially either way you're gonna be taking a round of shooting on the chin. The toughness 7 of the TFC applies to the entire unit and is especially effective against Wave Serpents and Broadsides (two very common choices).
Obviously, once you get close enough, you can leave it behind and go start smashing into the gun-line. It goes without saying that this isn't a tactic you should use in every game, but against a dedicated gunline, T7 is no joke.

I really don't think you have though this through. This either results in your TFC being easier for the enemy to get to and destroy, or it results in the characters taking longer to get to the enemy, and thus taking a round of shooting on their T5 anyway (and I'm still not sure why you think that T5 isn't good enough).

Well, they're probably not gonna be attached to the TFC past turn 1. So, their movement is not really restricted as much as you might think. They still get their 12 scout move, though they must stay in coherency to the TFC. In regards to the TFC being easier to get... it's 100 pts. I'll get over it.

EDIT: it's also important to remember I'm not saying you should rely on this as a strategy or anything, but it could be an interesting tactic against some lists.

 magodedisco wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 magodedisco wrote:
Woke up this morning from a fevered dream with a crazy idea: Attaching the two Chapter Master beat-sticks (and Khan) to a TFC at the start of the game. You're limiting your movement quite a bit, but you can't assault turn 1 anyway. You still want to deploy agressive adn get that scout move. So, essentially either way you're gonna be taking a round of shooting on the chin. The toughness 7 of the TFC applies to the entire unit and is especially effective against Wave Serpents and Broadsides (two very common choices).
Obviously, once you get close enough, you can leave it behind and go start smashing into the gun-line. It goes without saying that this isn't a tactic you should use in every game, but against a dedicated gunline, T7 is no joke.

I really don't think you have though this through. This either results in your TFC being easier for the enemy to get to and destroy, or it results in the characters taking longer to get to the enemy, and thus taking a round of shooting on their T5 anyway (and I'm still not sure why you think that T5 isn't good enough).

Well, they're probably not gonna be attached to the TFC past turn 1. So, their movement is not really restricted as much as you might think. They still get their 12 scout move, though they must stay in coherency to the TFC. In regards to the TFC being easier to get... it's 100 pts. I'll get over it.

EDIT: it's also important to remember I'm not saying you should rely on this as a strategy or anything, but it could be an interesting tactic against some lists.

Also, Artillery only scouts 6".

 magodedisco wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 magodedisco wrote:
Woke up this morning from a fevered dream with a crazy idea: Attaching the two Chapter Master beat-sticks (and Khan) to a TFC at the start of the game. You're limiting your movement quite a bit, but you can't assault turn 1 anyway. You still want to deploy agressive adn get that scout move. So, essentially either way you're gonna be taking a round of shooting on the chin. The toughness 7 of the TFC applies to the entire unit and is especially effective against Wave Serpents and Broadsides (two very common choices).
Obviously, once you get close enough, you can leave it behind and go start smashing into the gun-line. It goes without saying that this isn't a tactic you should use in every game, but against a dedicated gunline, T7 is no joke.

I really don't think you have though this through. This either results in your TFC being easier for the enemy to get to and destroy, or it results in the characters taking longer to get to the enemy, and thus taking a round of shooting on their T5 anyway (and I'm still not sure why you think that T5 isn't good enough).

Well, they're probably not gonna be attached to the TFC past turn 1. So, their movement is not really restricted as much as you might think. They still get their 12 scout move, though they must stay in coherency to the TFC. In regards to the TFC being easier to get... it's 100 pts. I'll get over it.

EDIT: it's also important to remember I'm not saying you should rely on this as a strategy or anything, but it could be an interesting tactic against some lists.

I know that you are putting them on bikes, but if you felt you didnt have too, you could always attach them with a TFC in a drop pod, drop it on first turn and they would have t7 to get shot at before running down the opposing army.

It would work great against people hiding behind an ADL.

 magodedisco wrote:
Another new item is similar to a Thunder Hammer (+2S/AP2/Unwieldy/Mastercrafted/+4S on 6 to hit) except it is not Specialist, which means you could still rock a pistol for 5 attacks (MC too!).

well i woudnt say that that is a thunder hammer. the advantages of a thunder hammer is that is makes him able to double tap out all of those pesky necron lords and there equivelents. Other wise just get a power axe, which is allot cheaper and pretty close.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 magodedisco wrote:
Another new item is similar to a Thunder Hammer (+2S/AP2/Unwieldy/Mastercrafted/+4S on 6 to hit) except it is not Specialist, which means you could still rock a pistol for 5 attacks (MC too!).

well i woudnt say that that is a thunder hammer. the advantages of a thunder hammer is that is makes him able to double tap out all of those pesky necron lords and there equivelents. Other wise just get a power axe, which is allot cheaper and pretty close.

Yeah, I'd agree overall a Thunderhammer is the better weapon. However, the Axe of Medusa is only 10 pts more for at least +1S and the Master-crafted rule compared to a Power Axe.

herpguy wrote:
Plus in a command squad with apothecary this dude gets a 4+ FnP or a 3+ if he rolls the right warlord trait.
This seriously makes me roll my eyes at the gigantic boner GW is showing towards Space Marines, whie continuing to give CSM the finger.

what if pink horrors start shooting the unit....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 magodedisco wrote:
Another new item is similar to a Thunder Hammer (+2S/AP2/Unwieldy/Mastercrafted/+4S on 6 to hit) except it is not Specialist, which means you could still rock a pistol for 5 attacks (MC too!).

well i woudnt say that that is a thunder hammer. the advantages of a thunder hammer is that is makes him able to double tap out all of those pesky necron lords and there equivelents. Other wise just get a power axe, which is allot cheaper and pretty close.

newcron lords are T5 right?

most things with CC potential are going to be T5 or more, so str8 isnt that useful. Although denying FNP to BA and IH is ok, and there are 'nid warriors at least unitl their codex comes out and makes them T8.