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so for a 20 man squad of cultists what would you say would be the better mark, Khorne or Slaanesh? I'm not going to bother with Nurgle or tzeentch. They're going to die anyway, so I might as well keep them cheap. Right now I'm leaning towards slaanesh. alot will die in CC so I might as well strike at the same time, instead of getting rage and counter attack and MAYBE getting extra attacks if they miraculously survive.

and chaos terminators. could someone do some math hammer for me. I'm figuring five, decked out with lightning claws and a chaos lord with LC/PF combo would be able to hold their own against a LC Terminator assault squad, but everyone knows it will be TH/SS and I'm figuring if chaos gets the charge with MoK then there's a very real possibility of them causing some unsaved wounds and possibly making it to the second round of combat, I've also entertained maybe using MoT to get that 1 better invuln. what do you guys think?

I like Mark of Tzeentch, and then stick a Terminator Sorcerer in their with Biomancy. Then Deep Strike and go crazy. >D

I like my Cultists with Khorne simply because they're also wounding at ridiculously low odds, so if you're trying to drown your enemy in wounds, then you need them to kick out more. That's me though, and I also have a Dark Apostle in that squad with Axe of Blind Fury.

I call it my Moving Blender squad. It'll be upgraded with berzerks at some point in the near distant future.

Simple answer, don't fight his terminators with yours. They are a bully unit. Go after weaker units, the soft underbelly, units you know you can kill.

If you are going termie hunting, combi plasmas everywhere on the Chaos terminators. Terminator on terminator Close combats are a waste of points and a losing proposition for everyone.

On cultists I put MoK, and depending on my enemies opinion of close combat, bury a chaos lord with an AOBF or power weapon in there. Let the cultists take the wounds, and drown the enemy in them.

Another option to consider is Typhus and zombifying them. 6+ 5+ fnp works fine in cc

Cultists are not worth giving any Mark at all. The increase in defense or offense, is less than you would gain by simply taking more models. The Mark of Khorne might provide +1 Attack in specific circumstances, or you could just take another body and get twice the attacks in all situations, plus another Scoring wound. The only 'Mark' ever worth considering is the transition into Plague Zombies and even then, it is free.

Your Terminators are going to lose in a straight up fight simply because your models are now more expensive, and still bounce off Stormshields. You have an extra attack on him but he has twice the defense by using a 3++ and will still have more bodies. Your advantages lie in a cheaper squad, both in terms of model and minimum squad size, and ranged upgrades. Your Terminators are built to drop-and-pop with Combi-gear or occasionally Infiltrate with Huron. They make poor assault troops and you'll only end up hurting yourself by trying.

EDIT: Apparently I misread your loadout, I thought the whole squad had Fist + Claw. Yeah if they have double-Claws they'll get ruined even harder and by making them Khornate, you are consigning your Lord to T4 and hence Hammer-bait. Stormshield Terminators are never an easy target to remove but you are feeding them their favourite target, loaded with expensive toys they don't need and essentially playing right into their hands.

thanks for all the replies and advice. The meta here where I am is SM. and aLL roll with the TH/SS out of a land raider. so I'm grasping at straws for ways to deal with them at this point. lol. I knew sending my termies against them would be a losing proposition but I figured it's my best chance of tying them up for a turn or two and possibly causing some wounds. I hate those dang things.

Hammernators pay a lot of points for that 3++ and rely on tanking enough damage to survive until Unwieldy, at which point the S8/AP2 tends to beat however many they lost. The key is therefore to spam out as much damage as you can before the Unwieldy stage, don't waste points paying for AP, and avoid defensive upgrades that the squad will likely ignore. Even better is to do it from long range.

As always Plague Marines can do the job. You have guns and he doesn't, so it is on him to charge, through Defensive Grenades, and you might plink someone out on Overwatch. You'd still go first and Poison means you're effectively using Lightning Claws against them. FInally FNP goes a long way towards reducing the impact of Hammers.
Alternatively, drown them in Cultists. A mob of 35 throws down silly numbers of attacks even without paying for Marks and the Hammer is utterly wasted squishing such cheap bodies.
Khornate Marines can pump out a few more attacks and at a higher strength, but an enormously increased cost means that they aren't a preferred solution. Spawn are also good for throwing dice and eating wounds.

Finally, consider some allied Daemons and getting Daemonettes/Seekers in there. Buckets of Rending at high WS go a long way towards killing elites.

I'll second the unmarked cultists. Use those points for more meat sacks. A base autopistol/ccw cultist for 4 pts is great spam on short range shooting and will give an unwieldy unit of models a serious tar pit to consider. For 150 points, you can tie up a lot of junk and contest objectives. Also make a great escort for anything which would provide them cover (synergy!) to get them in to tie up those termis. Detach your IC on your move before charge and let it get to more pressing matters. You don't want to have an HQ get lumped in with majority toughness 3.

A couple of obliterators to pop the land raider with their multi meltas should help then just ram 35 cultists with a jugger lord with aobf into them.

Just my two cents but WH40k is not exactly balanced in regards to close combat so I would avoid it at all costs when playing Chaos.

Mind you this is the perspective of a player who has run SM, CSM, and Eldar... There is only 1 stat that even remotely matters in close combat. Initiative. Going first means victory 99% of the time.

That being said, if you plan on using your Termis or Cultists to actually close with your enemy's models, MoS is the only option that won't be a waste of points.

This isn't to say that other marks don't have a purpose... close combat just isn't one of them.

For the cultists: do NOT mark them.
If you do the math you'll see that for the price you pay for the mark, it is simply better to buy more cultists.

For the Assault termies, do not counter them with Chaos Terminators, you have to kill them with massed fire or just tarpit them. Plasma Gun is a good option, but you're wasting a powerful and expensive weapon on something that will save on 3++ anyway. So just force them to save as much as possible.
2+/3++ is a very good save, but with 5 men they'll die after "only" 30 wounds. And with T4 it's not that difficult.

Just be careful that they'll most likely go in a Land Raider, so that's the key point. Blow up the Land Raider and they'll be exposed to bolter fire for 2-3 turns and they'll die without causing too much damage.
However be careful to not be too much worried about them, otherwise the rest of the army will be unharmed and will kill you easily

Mozzamanx wrote:Cultists are not worth giving any Mark at all.

reiner wrote:I'll second the unmarked cultists.

Diablix wrote:For the cultists: do NOT mark them.

OMG YOU PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY WITH THIS NONSENSE!!!!!!

Does it ever freaking occur to any of you that people have to pay for these pieces of plastic and can't just "bring more of them DERP!"?!

This is what maximizing effectiveness is all about. Not just "Alright, I've got unlimited resources. Now let's be the best and oh yeah, I don't need to look at the enemy either."

This is the HEIGHT of BAD ADVICE.

I get it. Math hammer away. Sure. Pen and paper. It's sound. In actuality? NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.

I don't mean to rage here, although I am and it's kinda fun because I like showing the pro's up from time to time when I can, however, I can take this hard line because I'm one of these poor mofo's that doesn't have every model at his disposal. Hell, I'm lucky if I can buy a box of plastic a month, let alone paint and supplies at any given time! So SOMETIMES you've gotta work with what you've got and optimize from there. Like I said, I'm one of these guys. I've got 20 cultists I can play with and I mark them with Khorne and throw a Dark Apostle in. Does that make it a bad unit? Vs. what else? Because in my army, it's not a horrible unit and I can afford it. INFACT THIS UNIT is so good that while it is eating up overwatches and what not, and tying up shooters, I've got those stupid Draznitch's Ravager Chosen that are horribly kitted, who can now charge into combat right behind them without getting shredded in the process.

Hopefully this shakes the auditors and mathematicians out there a little harder into realizing that strategy does take a little more than numbers. It takes skill, finesse, perhaps some charisma, clever planning and a butt-load of luck at times. Put it all together, and you have a competent general instead of a desk jockey.

2 cents. Sorry again if this flames or anything. That crap has been rubbing me the wrong way since I got to Dakka Dakka. XD Up there with people telling me to manage my points better when I don't play points games. lol

I'll bite. So if someone can't afford more models they should throw marks onto cultists?

I'd rather take these options
a) use points on upgrades on other models in my army
b) proxy more basic cultists (bottle caps and paper are suitable for friendly games).

I'm not pro by any means, I'm giving a non-mathematical opinion based on the games I've played.and the strategies I've had luck with or I've seen work. There's no reason to get mad when you're gaming on a budget.

 reiner wrote:
I'll bite. So if someone can't afford more models they should throw marks onto cultists?

I'd rather take these options
a) use points on upgrades on other models in my army
b) proxy more basic cultists (bottle caps and paper are suitable for friendly games).

I'm not pro by any means, I'm giving a non-mathematical opinion based on the games I've played.and the strategies I've had luck with or I've seen work. There's no reason to get mad when you're gaming on a budget.

No, what I'm saying is after you've done all your optimizing with what you've got and you've put out all your bottlecaps, and you happen to still have 100 points left over that couldn't possibly go anywhere else, why not try a Mark? As opposed to saying "No marks evar!"

Also, after having a discussion with changerofways via PM's about the above post, I'd like to say that while it looks and maybe sounds like a rage post, it's not. It was more one of those things I had to rally back at because so many people have said the same thing to me and I'm going "I can't do that?" lol

Think of it more like a troll against a troll....but with a point. Does that make any sense?

Also, took my meds earlier so it's every bit of possible that I start losing coherency soon.

I feel like I'm being called a troll over my suggestion. No worries.

I'd say that if you've got 100 points left, there are still better things to spend the points on. I would doubt a 2k list, even on a single primary detachment is full on the force org chart. Without going into MistressofDesire's army composition, 100 points could buy some mastery levels on a psyker, or some rhinos, or some extra cult marines. Those are things I would value more than marking cultists.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


OMG YOU PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY WITH THIS NONSENSE!!!!!!

Does it ever freaking occur to any of you that people have to pay for these pieces of plastic and can't just "bring more of them DERP!"?!

This is what maximizing effectiveness is all about. Not just "Alright, I've got unlimited resources. Now let's be the best and oh yeah, I don't need to look at the enemy either."

This is the HEIGHT of BAD ADVICE.

I get it. Math hammer away. Sure. Pen and paper. It's sound. In actuality? NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.

Cultists are pretty cheap also as a miniature, not just for their point cost... at least if you compare them to other GW stuff (Flesh Hounds? Chaos Spawn?)
They start to become expensive if you plan to bring HORDES of them (3x35), otherwise if you already have 20 of them you can just spend £11 and buy 10 more.
However I understand that many are still students, so even £11 could make the difference.

Then you can buy 40 small bases for less than 2.5$, allowing you to proxy as many cultists as you want.

You don't even want to spend 2.5$?
Then with 40 points (the cost to give MoK to the 20 points the poster was talking about) you can buy 2 flamers for the cultists and 2 plasma guns for a TAC squad, you can buy 4 meltaguns across your army, you could add another Chaos Spawn, whatever.
There are so many better option than giving a mark to Cultists that I it's not even feasible listing them all.

Just consider this:
A SM TAC squad firing from long range will hit ~6-7 cultists, killing ~3-4 of them. So just with a mere bolter fire from a TAC squad 24" away you'd throw away 8 points of upgrade.
And if you manage to reach that squad, your MoK would give them 20 more attacks, which means ~10 hits, which means ~3-4 wounds, which means that maybe you'll kill a SM. So you are paying 40pts for having a chance to kill a 15pts guy. Not to mention that this is true if and only if you reach CC unharmed, which would be a miracle considering we're talking about cultists.

Just as a comparison, 10 more cultists (40pts), on the charge give you 30 more attacks. And 20 on the following turns (while MoK becomes useless in the second round of combat, or if you are charged).

In my opinion the only Mark that has at least some sense is the Mark of Tzeentch in a 35 men squad that you are using as an escort for a big bad guy such as Abaddon. You're paying 35 points more, buy you are giving ~6 more wounds that the enemy has to inflict on your unit before he can harm your big bad guy. And this is because in that situation adding more cultists would not help your HQ

Diablix wrote:
while MoK becomes useless in the second round of combat, or if you are charged).

MoK gives counterattack as well.

Sometimes it is fun to take wacky/fluffy stuff such as khorne cultists and it's not like they are crazy bad, definitely not as bad as say taking 2 lightning claws on a chosen (+1A on a space marine for +15 points yay!).

Cultist + Mark of Tzeentch + Skyshield = 3++ objective holders for 5 points a pop.

Or take a couple of Tzeentch Heralds and cast forewarning on them and you got cultists with storm shields!

No, what I'm saying is after you've done all your optimizing with what you've got and you've put out all your bottlecaps, and you happen to still have 100 points left over that couldn't possibly go anywhere else, why not try a Mark? As opposed to saying "No marks evar!"

I've never been in that position. Ever. If someone does have that many points left over, there are still better ways to spend them than by marking cultists (who are actually already more expensive than they are worth even as unmarked models).

Personally, I'm of the opinion that not marking cultists is the way to go and that those points are (in the OPs specific case) better spent on buffing the terminators.

Ok, didn't mean to sound as ragey as it apparently did, so let's expand my position further since we're still not getting the picture. Sure, I could probably order something online cheap and get it here or some such noise....if I even had a bank account. That's what "broke" means.

2nd: If I want to play at a store of some such where there is merchandise to purchase, I have to have a car with gas, which most of the time I don't.

3rd: If I even want to get out of the house, I'd have to figure out time apart from my toddler and infant at home, which is hard to come buy.

So you see extrenuating circumstances that can drive up that dollar amount more and more. And before someone goes along and tries to criticize me for not investing my time better (like say getting a job?) my fiance is the bread winner there and I stay at home with the kids, which we are both more than happy to do. It's just unfortunate that times are hard and we're investing nearly every penny in getting back on our feet.

Now, I'm not saying that this is a permanent issue or a common one or anything like that. The only thing I was saying was stop telling people to not take something ever. If you want to give good advice, give both sides of the object, not just the glaringly bad.

Ex: If after you've got everything you want and still have X left over, and you want to pump out some more wounds on your Cultists, why not throw on a MoK?

Some more info, since I feel like a little more judgment got thrown my way than I could've possibly put out; No, I don't have a proper FoC based army. I've got 2 troops, 5 hq's, 4 elites, 1 fast attack and no heavies. Because all I've got is Dark Vengeance Chaos with a couple filler pieces to make what I had a little more effective. And they were the cheaper buys too, like a Finecast Dark Apostle for 5 bucks (on sale) that was available at the time of purchase, right there and I could do it, all conditions met.

And lucky you who have never been in that position. Some of us are, every day of our lives. That's called being ethnocentric. :\

And I already do a fair amount of proxy-ing as it is. I could only imagine what my opponents would say if I start fielding bottle caps worth of Havocs.

Think I got everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Diablix wrote:

Just consider this:
A SM TAC squad firing from long range will hit ~6-7 cultists, killing ~3-4 of them. So just with a mere bolter fire from a TAC squad 24" away you'd throw away 8 points of upgrade.
And if you manage to reach that squad, your MoK would give them 20 more attacks, which means ~10 hits, which means ~3-4 wounds, which means that maybe you'll kill a SM. So you are paying 40pts for having a chance to kill a 15pts guy. Not to mention that this is true if and only if you reach CC unharmed, which would be a miracle considering we're talking about cultists.

Just as a comparison, 10 more cultists (40pts), on the charge give you 30 more attacks. And 20 on the following turns (while MoK becomes useless in the second round of combat, or if you are charged).

In my opinion the only Mark that has at least some sense is the Mark of Tzeentch in a 35 men squad that you are using as an escort for a big bad guy such as Abaddon. You're paying 35 points more, buy you are giving ~6 more wounds that the enemy has to inflict on your unit before he can harm your big bad guy. And this is because in that situation adding more cultists would not help your HQ

And just consider this:

I've got a blob of (Tyranid melee) getting ready to tie up my Havocs and I've got Khorne Cultists with Flamers and a Dark Apostle with AoBF primed to blind side this squad. And they do. And they annihilate it outright. And the back up melee behind them. And they tie up a Warrior squad behind that.

I've also got my finite army and I've kitted out everything else I can as best as I can or want too, and still have room left over for those marks, that dark apostle and the ax, no harm done. Because I am that limited on my resources.


So we can throw out these examples all day long, but like I said, if you can't find a reason why that thing exists in the first place then you're probably missing something. Perhaps a choice opportunity to do some serious damage. Also, I think I finally figured out how to balance Overwatch: The charging unit should be able to Overwatch as well. Thoughts? lol

Also, I'll concede the argument that MoTz works good on Cultists protecting a guy like Abbadon or Ahriman.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Ok, didn't mean to sound as ragey as it apparently did, so let's expand my position further since we're still not getting the picture. Sure, I could probably order something online cheap and get it here or some such noise....if I even had a bank account. That's what "broke" means.

2nd: If I want to play at a store of some such where there is merchandise to purchase, I have to have a car with gas, which most of the time I don't.

3rd: If I even want to get out of the house, I'd have to figure out time apart from my toddler and infant at home, which is hard to come buy.

So you see extrenuating circumstances that can drive up that dollar amount more and more. And before someone goes along and tries to criticize me for not investing my time better (like say getting a job?) my fiance is the bread winner there and I stay at home with the kids, which we are both more than happy to do. It's just unfortunate that times are hard and we're investing nearly every penny in getting back on our feet.

Now, I'm not saying that this is a permanent issue or a common one or anything like that. The only thing I was saying was stop telling people to not take something ever. If you want to give good advice, give both sides of the object, not just the glaringly bad.

Ex: If after you've got everything you want and still have X left over, and you want to pump out some more wounds on your Cultists, why not throw on a MoK?

Some more info, since I feel like a little more judgment got thrown my way than I could've possibly put out; No, I don't have a proper FoC based army. I've got 2 troops, 5 hq's, 4 elites, 1 fast attack and no heavies. Because all I've got is Dark Vengeance Chaos with a couple filler pieces to make what I had a little more effective. And they were the cheaper buys too, like a Finecast Dark Apostle for 5 bucks (on sale) that was available at the time of purchase, right there and I could do it, all conditions met.

And lucky you who have never been in that position. Some of us are, every day of our lives. That's called being ethnocentric. :\

And I already do a fair amount of proxy-ing as it is. I could only imagine what my opponents would say if I start fielding bottle caps worth of Havocs.

Think I got everything.

Hate to be this guy mate but if those circumstances are genuine than perhaps 40k is just not for you. Or at least, not at this point in your life.

If a person has no bank account, and no car, and has a family to feed, than I can think of a good number of things that should be MUCH higher on their list of priorities than plastic toys.

There is no two ways about it, this hobby can be very expensive. If you can't afford that, don't play. I don't want to sound elitist and I don't want to discourage new players from starting, but like all games this is a luxury in life, not a necessity.

Now, it's clear to me from your last few posts that you REALLY want to put some kind of mark on your cultists. Despite all the advice from other players who have explained their reasoning why they would not do such a thing.

stop telling people to not take something ever

This is irrational. There are a good number of things that people just plain avoid in this game. Some units are either not well thought out, or do not serve a purpose on the table that can justify their dollar value or point cost to players (Mandrakes come to mind). Not every model is worth it. I know a lot of Chaos players who just plain don't use Hellbrutes since they can get more value out of other models. This is genuinely the case with Cultists. They can be worthwhile under the right circumstances, but to give them a mark increases their point cost to such a degree that it diminishes their overall value.

Offensive cultists that are moving forward like to have MON or MOK. MOT is kinda bad, paying for a 6++ is silly. MOS is decent, but unless the unit is fearless though adding an IC, not worth it.

Cultists that stay at home should have autoguns, trust me on this. Mark or no mark, your preference. MON tends to be favored. I've had autogun cultists down flying MC's, do wounds to other things and be a general nuisance. Very handy.

 En Excelsis wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Ok, didn't mean to sound as ragey as it apparently did, so let's expand my position further since we're still not getting the picture. Sure, I could probably order something online cheap and get it here or some such noise....if I even had a bank account. That's what "broke" means.

2nd: If I want to play at a store of some such where there is merchandise to purchase, I have to have a car with gas, which most of the time I don't.

3rd: If I even want to get out of the house, I'd have to figure out time apart from my toddler and infant at home, which is hard to come buy.

So you see extrenuating circumstances that can drive up that dollar amount more and more. And before someone goes along and tries to criticize me for not investing my time better (like say getting a job?) my fiance is the bread winner there and I stay at home with the kids, which we are both more than happy to do. It's just unfortunate that times are hard and we're investing nearly every penny in getting back on our feet.

Now, I'm not saying that this is a permanent issue or a common one or anything like that. The only thing I was saying was stop telling people to not take something ever. If you want to give good advice, give both sides of the object, not just the glaringly bad.

Ex: If after you've got everything you want and still have X left over, and you want to pump out some more wounds on your Cultists, why not throw on a MoK?

Some more info, since I feel like a little more judgment got thrown my way than I could've possibly put out; No, I don't have a proper FoC based army. I've got 2 troops, 5 hq's, 4 elites, 1 fast attack and no heavies. Because all I've got is Dark Vengeance Chaos with a couple filler pieces to make what I had a little more effective. And they were the cheaper buys too, like a Finecast Dark Apostle for 5 bucks (on sale) that was available at the time of purchase, right there and I could do it, all conditions met.

And lucky you who have never been in that position. Some of us are, every day of our lives. That's called being ethnocentric. :\

And I already do a fair amount of proxy-ing as it is. I could only imagine what my opponents would say if I start fielding bottle caps worth of Havocs.

Think I got everything.

Hate to be this guy mate but if those circumstances are genuine than perhaps 40k is just not for you. Or at least, not at this point in your life.

If a person has no bank account, and no car, and has a family to feed, than I can think of a good number of things that should be MUCH higher on their list of priorities than plastic toys.

There is no two ways about it, this hobby can be very expensive. If you can't afford that, don't play. I don't want to sound elitist and I don't want to discourage new players from starting, but like all games this is a luxury in life, not a necessity.

Now, it's clear to me from your last few posts that you REALLY want to put some kind of mark on your cultists. Despite all the advice from other players who have explained their reasoning why they would not do such a thing.

stop telling people to not take something ever

This is irrational. There are a good number of things that people just plain avoid in this game. Some units are either not well thought out, or do not serve a purpose on the table that can justify their dollar value or point cost to players (Mandrakes come to mind). Not every model is worth it. I know a lot of Chaos players who just plain don't use Hellbrutes since they can get more value out of other models. This is genuinely the case with Cultists. They can be worthwhile under the right circumstances, but to give them a mark increases their point cost to such a degree that it diminishes their overall value.

Yes, it's extremely elitist to make that jump, but expected and not without merit, but you should understand a couple other things about a person like me before you start shoveling off responsibility.

1: We weren't always like this.
2: My life has been royally f@!<d, which I won't go into a great deal of depths on. Let's just say that I've fought for most everything in my life, had most everything in my life taken from me, had more near-death experiences than anyone should ever experience in their lives, and am just lucky enough to have found a woman that took me in off the streets and is helping me get better, while also providing me with all the love and family I could ever want.
3: I'm in a state of recovery right now with very little to my name or going on.
4: When she is doing her thing, life is great. She was able to afford me this hobby because things weren't always so fubar AND because it helped me a lot considering I've got nothing else really.

Does that mean we're still taking care of business? Absolutely! That's why I'm on the back burner till we get our place back. lol

So, you see, even for a guy like me, this game is possible and desirable. So one should reconsider the advice they give when dealing with people of lesser means who still want to enjoy this experience.

No, I'm not "determined" to put Marks on my Cultist. I just CAN and not be a complete @ss-hat for doing so. Simultaneously, even the worst models can serve a purpose, points cost and all, and that's saying a lot for a Chaos player who is glaring accusingly at Furies. (WHY?! WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THOSE THINGS!?!)


On a more serious note relating to me being able to play v. realistically should I be playing anyways: This is like therapy to me. My family has never seen me more calm or focused or happy for that matter, than when I've sat down with a new box for the month and get to paint a little. It's been tormenting them just as much as it is me that we've been stuck in this hole for the last year because we've been helping her family out too, in addition to dealing with her complicated pregnancy. lol

There are extenuating circumstances in everyone's lives. That's why I say "Don't paint everything with the same brush." A lot of ya'll don't realize how good you have it and when you kick these things down to us lowbies, it causes a lot of confusion, drives away a lot of interest, and can generally handicap new players mentally by trying to copy n paste these ideas verbatim, without any personalizing or stylizing taken into account.

One more thing, it's not irrational if you do not understand the rationale that is being presented. lol It's just not understood.

I feel that this topic is veering wildly out of hand here.

In terms of points-efficiency, Marking Cultists is a bad idea. It is inefficient compared with the vast majority of choices available. If you are in such a state that you are trying to pump a 1000pt army into 1500pts by taking sub-standard upgrades and generally padding out, you should start with other options well before you turn to Marks. Even when it comes to unnecessary filler and 'fun' options there are better ways to go about it.

Ultimately this is the Tactics forum and so we provide you with efficiencies, plans and army builds. We cannot plan around extenuating circumstances, we can just help you with Warhammer.

Good luck Red Wing

Mozzamanx wrote:
Ultimately this is the Tactics forum and so we provide you with efficiencies, plans and army builds. We cannot plan around extenuating circumstances, we can just help you with Warhammer.

This.

Whatever your circumstances may be mate, the best advice as it relates to your playing the game (in the context of the question you asked) is to not put marks on your cultists. A quick glance up at the rest of this thread and you will notice that this is consistent advice from not just one but many players.

If you have limited access to models but have point room to work with than you need to assess where you can point the points to best use. This will most likely not be the cultists.

Running 20 cultists as you said you were earlier - this is not a significant enough number of them to reap a significant reward from a mark. You are better off buying wargear for your HQ, or troops, or Elites. They will carry those extra points further for you in the vast majority of cases.

I clicked on this thread after a few days of figuring the questions were already being answered by other experienced players.
What I found was wildly different from what I could have ever expected...

Mozzamanx wrote:
I feel that this topic is veering wildly out of hand here.

In terms of points-efficiency, Marking Cultists is a bad idea. It is inefficient compared with the vast majority of choices available. If you are in such a state that you are trying to pump a 1000pt army into 1500pts by taking sub-standard upgrades and generally padding out, you should start with other options well before you turn to Marks. Even when it comes to unnecessary filler and 'fun' options there are better ways to go about it.

Ultimately this is the Tactics forum and so we provide you with efficiencies, plans and army builds. We cannot plan around extenuating circumstances, we can just help you with Warhammer.

You said it yourself. "Points-efficiency" which is not the sole "efficiency" to be taken into account. Like when guys say "Cannon fodder is useless." Sorry, but even if cannon fodder doesn't kill it's return in points, it can still be efficient by keeping more expensive points from being lost.

You're also forgetting the part where I mention that after all options are taken into account x can still be squeezed in. It's just bad mojo to say "Don't do it ever!" and better to say "Do it IF...here is why... unless you have better options." That doesn't happen here. Too many people paint these types of things with an All or Nothing brush, which doesn't always have to be the case.

Let's come up with some more examples of where this attitude can get you in trouble.

Say I had the money to afford more cultists, but the store didn't have them and I proxied out, so now I've got a hole and nothing but Marks to fill it with.
Say I'm playing Kill Team and all I have are Cultists to field.
Say I'm playing a narrative and it says "play with an army of Khorne."

The "extenuating circumstances" I mentioned are more in relation to my own life and less about this game. In terms of this game, they are just circumstances that can happen to anyone. And if you're just helping with Warhammer, then don't say "Don't ever use this! It's dumb!" Explain what it was supposed to be, how it was supposed to be used, what perks you can get from it, and then start the laundry list of "Why-nots."

Jeebus, if everyone took this kind of advice everywhere it is found, we'd all be running the same damn armies. Obviously we don't, because each player plays a strategy tailored to themselves and builds their army accordingly, or vice-versa, but it always comes back to the person and their skill-sets, talents, etc.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:


And just consider this:

I've got a blob of (Tyranid melee) getting ready to tie up my Havocs and I've got Khorne Cultists with Flamers and a Dark Apostle with AoBF primed to blind side this squad. And they do. And they annihilate it outright. And the back up melee behind them. And they tie up a Warrior squad behind that.

And so?
If you managed to do this with 20 (or whatever) cultists with MoK you would have managed to pull it off also with 30 (or whatever +10) cultists for the same point cost, since they give you 10 more attacks with respect to the MoK.
Did you have a unit of 35 cultists with MoK? Wonderful, you would have accomplished a better result with 2 units of 50 cultists in total.


And just because you don't have £2.50 to proxy the cultists it doesn't make MoK useful, better and/or more effective.
Just say that is cheaper, because anyone willing to invest £2.50 can manage to have a better list by not marking cultists.

See above