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I am trying to decide which list is more competitive overall. The difference is that one list has a chapter master with a command squad instead of khan and 2 extra grav bike squads. I like the second list but I am concerned with the scout and the servo-sculls issue and I feel that khan isn't very impressive without that. I am aware that there are very few models in these lists so do you think that will be a problem? Hopefully the bikers will shut down the major threats to them early without losing too many men while the thunderfire cannons help out with killing troops. Another thing that I was wondering is if Salamanders are more competitive than white scars after the scout nerf with the servo-skulls?

HQ:
Chapter Master
+ Bike
+ Shield Eternal
+ Artificer armor
+ Power Fist
Command Squad
+ Bikes
+ Apothecary
+ 5 grav-guns

Troops:
4 Bikers
+ 2 meltaguns
+ Attack Bike with multi-melta
4 Bikers
+ 2 meltaguns
+ Attack Bike with multi-melta
5 Bikers
+ 2 grav-guns
+ Combi-grav
5 Bikers
+ 2 grav-guns
+ Combi-grav

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon Gunship
+ Skyhammer missile launcher
Stormtalon Gunship
+ Skyhammer missile launcher

Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon


-or-


HQ
KorSarro Khan
+ Moondrakkan

Troops:
4 Bikers
+ 2 meltaguns
+ Attack Bike with multi-melta
4 Bikers
+ 2 meltaguns
+ Attack Bike with multi-melta
5 Bikers
+ 2 grav-guns
+ Combi-grav
5 Bikers
+ 2 grav-guns
+ Combi-grav
5 Bikers
+ 2 grav-guns
+ Combi-grav
5 Bikers
+ Combi-grav
+ 2 grav-guns

Fast Attack:
Stormtalon Gunship
+ Skyhammer missile launcher
Stormtalon Gunship
+ Skyhammer missile launcher

Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon

I say a mix. Consider going khan+ chapter master. Make all your bike squads 5 men strong and split the special weeps between grav guns and melts guns. I also prefer 2 squads of 3 typhoon speeders over TFC

Your first list is illegal. Chapter masters don't give access to command squads, captAins do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That aside though, you can't go wrong with either.

Ok, so because the first list is illegal, I will go with the second, but is White Scars the best build for space marines?

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Ok, so because the first list is illegal, I will go with the second, but is White Scars the best build for space marines?

The only question you should ask yourself is what chapter do you like best. If you just want to be able to use the most powerful ruleset, paint it your own combo of colors. one week you can say they are white scars successors, the next week you can use them as iron hands or salamanders successors. Paint what you like to look at, or you may regret it next time they are updated.

Khan- 125
Chapter master w/ arty armor, bike, TH, Shield eternal, digital weapons, auspex- 250
Command squad w/ bikes, apothecary, 4 grav guns- 210
5 man bike squad w/ 2 grav guns - 135
5 man bike squad w/ 2 grav guns - 135
5 man bike squad w/ 2 melta guns, melta bomb, attack bike w/ MM- 185
4 man bike squad w/ 2 melta guns, attack bike w/ MM- 159
2 typhoon land speeders - 150
2 typhoon land speeders - 150


here is something I think I would run at 1500 auspex is a pretty good thing, forgo shooting to give one enemy unit -1 to cover saves. hehe,

Don't forget that bikes can't climb to the upper levels of ruins, so if there's an objective or relic or something you want to assault up there, you're out of luck without at least one infantry unit.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
Don't forget that bikes can't climb to the upper levels of ruins, so if there's an objective or relic or something you want to assault up there, you're out of luck without at least one infantry unit.

really? where is this stated O.o

 raiden wrote:
Khan- 125
Chapter master w/ arty armor, bike, TH, Shield eternal, digital weapons, auspex- 250
Command squad w/ bikes, apothecary, 4 grav guns- 210
5 man bike squad w/ 2 grav guns - 135
5 man bike squad w/ 2 grav guns - 135
5 man bike squad w/ 2 melta guns, melta bomb, attack bike w/ MM- 185
4 man bike squad w/ 2 melta guns, attack bike w/ MM- 159
2 typhoon land speeders - 150
2 typhoon land speeders - 150


here is something I think I would run at 1500 auspex is a pretty good thing, forgo shooting to give one enemy unit -1 to cover saves. hehe,

You dident pay for the digital weapons or auspex in this list.

Also its true you cant go up and down stairs and buildings with bikers. A 5 man squad of scouts in a land speeder storm in reserves for late game objectives isn't a bad idea.

well if it is one level, I just have to be right below it as that is 3". opps, that was a miscalculation on my part haha.

At 1500 you could probably do without the Ch master. He is definitely worth it at 1850 but at 1500 you can probably just handle most threats with your mass gravguns, doubt the enemy would have anyone you'd really want to point him at.

My WS list at 1500 looks like

Khan + Moondrakken

Command Squad, Apoth, Bikes, 4 gravguns
Bike Squad 2 grav, combigrav MM Attack bike
Bike Squad 2 grav, combigrav MM Attack bike
Scout Squad Snipers/Camos
Tac Marines x 5 Rhino Plasma Combi Plas
Tac Marines x 5 Rhino Plasma Combi Plas

Stormtalon Skyhammer
Stormtalon Skyhammer

Thunderfire
Thunderfire

1498 points.

Just a few troop units to help you get those objectives in ruins, plus scouts can infiltrate and rhino tacs can scout forward with your bikes if you still want to go for the alpha strike plan with Khan, or stay at home on your objectives. You could kit them with a heavy weapon if your plan is to camp at home as well.