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Is this a legal list with using the new rules for formations?

Primary:

Destroyer Lord MSS

Wraiths x5, Whip Coils x2

Warriors x5
Night Scythe
Warriors x5
Night Scythe

Allies:

Be'lakor
Cultists x10
Heldrake

Tau Formation:

Riptide ion, TL Fusion, Early Warning Override

Broadside x3 Early Warning Override Missile Drones x6
Broadside x3 Early Warning Override Missile Drones x6

1994

I think im done with 40kl if this is the kind of stuff the future holds.

I think the addition of super heavies will be much worse because you will see people using them in 1500 point lists, or even less.

You're not taking enough ABarges.

All I see is a collection of so-called overpowered units that have no synergy. Unsupported Riptides and Broadsides are rubbish. Un-grimoired Belakor is a T5 model with 4 wounds and a 4++.

I think its balanced between melee and shooting with some fast units. for example. the broadsides/riptide can be protected by either be'lakor or the destroyer/wraiths. With a Heldrake and missile broadsides it can take down flyers. The warriors in the scythes are just for objective stealing or contesting. The only throw away unit is the cultists who come in on reserves.

Be'lakor can survive a ton on his own against many armies by casting invisibility on himself. Even against armies that can ignore cover he is still a flyer. Any unit can be focused down but if people concentrate on him then that means they are not shooting at the wraith unit moving in.

I thought about trying to fit in annihilation barges but really missile broadsides and missile drones are a ton of shooting. I think taking out melee options for more shooting would remove some of the balance.

I agree completely that this list is just picking some of the top units out of 3 different armies, but that doesn't mean they don't work together well.

i think you would have to use be'lakor as a daemon prince following the rules in the chaos or daemons rule book

The list works based solely on the strength of the units themselves, but isn't anywhere close to top tier.

As an aside, I'm sad to say that this is getting kind of ridiculous, all these allies and formations. Then again, the times they are a-changing. But that is another topic for debate.

As to your original question - the legality of it - it looks legal enough, though I haven't seen the Tau formation yet and can't say for sure.

As to your list, I agree with Asmodai. It is a strong list just based on the fact that you are using some of the best units from each army. However, it is lacking in synergy and pure brute force sans force-multipliers can only go so far. Give it a try and let us know how you do.

I'm sorry I hate the way this list is put together Its just wrong. I don't have a problem with all sorts of spam and cheese but this just takes things to far . I love Death Stars and cheese this just does not sit well with me. Sorry no offence . I'm sure it will be very effective

 aceface wrote:
I'm sorry I hate the way this list is put together Its just wrong. I don't have a problem with all sorts of spam and cheese but this just takes things to far . I love Death Stars and cheese this just does not sit well with me. Sorry no offence . I'm sure it will be very effective

Wait. You like Deathstars and Cheese... but hate this list? This makes no sense!

No one should have a problem with this list because it can be totally rocked by the top 3: Jetseer, Screamerstar and Grav Bike Spam. Even flying circus could dominate it by doing it's typical fly on/off then contest shenanigans.

Play whatever you want, but with the direction of the hobby and the rate of releases I may exit competitive play altogether and get into Flames of War or Twilight Struggle competition instead.

No to derail the thread, but with the rate of codex release it was hard enough to keep up with the meta money wise. But now with supplements, mini-dexes and now data slates? WTF? I know GW claims not to care about tournaments but the major TOs need to get together for some type of conclave a la Council of Nicaea if tournaments have a hope of streamlining competitive play.

It's not the competitive value of list that is so frustrating it's just the lack of narrative or fluff or any sort of sense in the 40k universe .

I totally understand that some players don't care about fluff but 40k has a ritch underlining story that adds to the game even in a comp.

This just goes so far from that it seems a shame

I really hope this gets banned because being able to just slap broadsides and a riptide in a list with free preferred enemy against half the armies is completely ridiculous.
If I have to pay to get hatred, which is a lot worse, Tau should not get preferred enemy for free.

I also agree with the frustration where this makes zero logical sense as far as a narrative goes. I know 40K has never really focused on that but this is taking things way too far.

 The Shrike wrote:
No one should have a problem with this list because it can be totally rocked by the top 3: Jetseer, Screamerstar and Grav Bike Spam. Even flying circus could dominate it by doing it's typical fly on/off then contest shenanigans.

Play whatever you want, but with the direction of the hobby and the rate of releases I may exit competitive play altogether and get into Flames of War or Twilight Struggle competition instead.

No to derail the thread, but with the rate of codex release it was hard enough to keep up with the meta money wise. But now with supplements, mini-dexes and now data slates? WTF? I know GW claims not to care about tournaments but the major TOs need to get together for some type of conclave a la Council of Nicaea if tournaments have a hope of streamlining competitive play.

Seriously, gravbike spam in the top 3? I feel like most top tier daemons lists would rock a bike armies world.

That's largely dependent on who gets T1 and the prevalence of LOS blocking terrain. Generally I agree with you.

Interesting to hear veterans talk about how the game has changed...

Also interesting to see some of the rage come out against this list. I agree its not top tier, I'm sure there are plenty of lists that can take it down. I was trying to come up with a list that puts 3 different armies together, using the cool units that I like to field (and happen to own). I'll admit, I don't read any of the novels or get into the fluff too much.

Not to turn this into a general discussion thread but the game is changing - with formations and super heavies and being able to drop down a huge fortress it's a totally different game then when I started back in 3rd edition. I really only see players reacting in 1 of 3 ways:

1. quit playing
2. play whatever rules/units you want with your own friends
3. adapt to the rules provided by GW

I'm going with #3 myself but don't get me wrong, I won't bring a cheese list (which I really don't think this list is) against a new or inexperienced player. There are some very competitive players in my area (I've seen people bring a fortress of redemption to a 500 point game before) and several of them own titans which I expect to start seeing very soon.

Back to the list - I think the main weakness is if my opponent focuses on the troops it will be a almost sure loss unless I can wipe them out (or at least their troops out). I look forward to trying it out against some of the competitive players in my area to see how it does. Of course, if any of them bring their titans I suspect I will be wiped out by turn 2 lol.

 believablejeff wrote:
i think you would have to use be'lakor as a daemon prince following the rules in the chaos or daemons rule book

Be'lakor IS a Daemon Prince. In either Chaos Daemons or Chaos Space Marines armies, Daemon Princes can be taken as HQs. Just had to clarify.

Is this how formations actually work? You can just take whatever formation?

It's certainly a powerful list although 6x broadsides is just so overkill without any force multiplier to really help them push through av 12 or armor 3

You also only have 20 weak scoring wounds

I'd be surprised to see this do well but you never know. It's got an Important spot on this forum though, just to showcase what is possible.

If you expanded the list with a buffmander and more troops to support the wraith guard I'd be more scared, Bel'akor is really a support model as far as I can tell.

LOL@ the people complaining that an okay but not great list is breaking either the competitive game of the fluff. A.) This list isn't great, as it ignores all the synergism from the respective codexes that make those units great. B.) Fluff...is...FLUFF! It's using your imagination to make made up stories about a fictional universe. Jesus, people. I could easily whip up a story line that could bring these units together for a common purpose. Maybe Be'lakor has used crazy Chaos warp energies to infect Necron and Tau units. Or maybe some of these units are really "count as" for experimental pieces of technology from another armies codex. IT'S A FICTIONAL UNIVERSE. STOP PRETENDING THEIR IS SOME OBJECTIVELY ESTABLISHED CANON. THE MAKERS OF THE GAME ARE STRAIGHT UP TELLING YOU TO CREATE YOUR OWN STORY AROUND YOUR UNIT'S! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here.

/rant

TBH I think the list has strong elements but is a weak list.

I know you are using all the powerful things people think are powerful but really you have 4-5 threats on the table total.

Threat 1- Your Deathstar

Which will be your D Lord and Wraiths. You have only 5 Wraiths and your D Lord has MSS of course but nothing else. TBH this is a pretty mediocre death star.

Threat 2- Bel'Akor

As allies of convenience he cannot cast psychic powers on your Necrons, or tau, and cannot join them. Not sure if Bel'akor is an IC, but wouldnt matter with this list anyways. You could probably spend 350 points on necrons or tau which would be more valuable to your list then this model would.

Threat 3- 1 Helldrake
Helldrakes are good, but you have just 1.

Threat 4- Riptide

Its 1 riptide

Threat 5- Broadsides

Broadsides are good, you have 2 units, they have a lot of shots with the drones and what not. TBH these are your only scary units to me.

I don't think you will be successful cherry picking good units from various codexes and putting them together, because They will not play well together.

When you have your models on the table you are going to have a shooting static backline of the broadisdes, and then your "Death star" will be moving somewhere, probably you are planning to support it with Bel'akor. I see your games going like the following:

You gun down some transports with broadisdes, your deathstar engages in assault/gets enganged, Bel'akor supports it. It spends 2 turns finishing off assault, your broadsides get charged, and your riptide helldrake damage and maybe kill 2-3 units.

Part of your army is fast, and the rest is sit back and shoot.

So you either divide and try and utilize both aspects, or you sit back and turtle while taking some shots.

Your sitback shots will be a lot less than most sitback and shoot armies, and your assault is a lot less than most assault armies.

You don't have much in the way of troops for holding anything at 2k.

2 squads of 5 warriors, and 10 cultists. The cultists will sit one of your back objectives and probably die terribly.

I see you maybe contesting an objective or two, or taking one thats empty with the warriors but they have about the same holding power as 10 cultists.

I just don't think this is a good list at 2k, you aren't going to succeed at objective games.