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hello dakka,

I have a 1500 point game coming up next week against a DE list and I'm looking for some advice on how to mitigate his turn 1 alpha strike. he usually runs 2-3 raiders w/ splinter racks filled with warriors, a couple ravagers and then some odds and ends like blasterborn and wyches in venoms. I've played against him once before and the sheer volume of firepower those raiders put out just murdered my marines. I had first turn, but couldn't do enough shooting (or couldn't get range, thanks to night shields chopping 6" off my max weapon range) to pop a single raider. it went downhill rapidly from there

here's my current 1500 point list:

salamanders chapter tactics
vulkan
xenos inquisitor
5-man LotD squad with MM, melta and combi-melta
(x2) 6-man tac marine squads in rhinos w/flamer and combi-flamer
6-man tac marine squad in rhino w/melta and combi-melta
5-man assault squad in drop pod w/2 flamers
stormtalon w/skyhammer missiles
3-man centurion dev squad with grav-cannons, hurricane bolters and omniscope
5-man dev squad with 4 plasma cannons
ADL w/comms relay

the ADL is just there for the comms relay, so I have a better shot at getting my reserves in early (the LotD, specifically). vulkan rolls with the grav cents to provide some charge deterrent and to tank wounds. the inquisitor rolls with the other dev squad to provide prescience. the drop pod is a suicide unit.

my main concern is being able to take out his raiders ASAP. as such, I'm questioning my heavy support choices and the drop pod squad. the drop pod's amazing if it has troops to flame, but he's going to be bottled up in his raiders on turn 1. I'm probably looking at two flamer hits on rear armor unless I get lucky with long range shooting. not a very worthy suicide mission. grav-cannons are probably going to be crap against DE, so thinking I might swap them out for a LC/ML loadout for more shots at his transports. I'm also torn about whether to stick with the plasma cannon devs or use something else like LCs or MLs. I had a terrible time popping his transports last time, so I'm leaning towards more big guns (I had a lot more troops and a lot less heavy firepower in our first game).

I also have these models available, if anything seems more fitting:

5-man tactical termie squad
5-man scout squad
5-man biker command squad (assorted close combat options)
land speeder
dreadnought w/MM & powerfirst
two of the rhinos can be made into razorbacks and the third rhino can be made into a predator

thoughts?

I'd say either spam Drop Pod or Rhinos, not both. Drop Pods are especially potent against Dark Eldar, because if you get first turn you can melta down his raiders with one squad and flame them down with another.

What's the Xenos Inquisitor's wargear/weapon? If he's naked that seems rather pointless to run him. Coteaz will help you get the first turn against DE and is a dirt cheap upgrade.

Drop the devs. You have plenty of AP-1/2 and the SM codex has much better HS options.

Single Storm Talon is bad. Either get more Flyers or drop it.

well, I only have one drop pod and three rhinos available so I'm a bit limited model-wise. same deal with the stormtalon (only have one), though I'd disagree that it's bad on its own. besides, I don't have any other models competing for my FA slots at the moment. I could certainly remove the drop pod unit and use the points elsewhere, though (buff out my 3 tac squads, most likely).

the inquisitor is there for cheap prescience. 55ish points for re-rolls to hit on a shooty unit with low volume of fire (i.e., devs) seemed like a good bargain. while coteaz is certainly stronger, I'm not seeing how he brings much to the table vs. DE aside from a second chance at seizing the initiative. if I were expecting more deep striking, then sure, but that extra seize roll doesn't seem like it's worth 45 points.

id keep the drop pod because marines popping out of it should be one raider down guaranteed, since you have only one you're kinda limited there. Stormtalon coming in from reserves kinda limits you on shots that could be used alpha or counter striking on the dark eldar, they are a glass hammer so should be smashed as quickly as possible. Which codex are you using? seemed like space marine from your list but ive not read the new book but the other poster mentioned coteaz so I'm very confused.

ah, sorry. to clarify, it's a C:SM list with a lone inquisitor as a separate detachment (using the new Codex: Inquisition rules). my list plus the models I laid out at the end of my post are pretty much all the models I have available to me at the moment, so my options are somewhat limited.

one thing I'm considering is replacing one of the rhinos with a predator of some flavor and then putting a full 10-man tac squad into the drop pod with MM, combi-melta and flamer. the unit would combat squad with the MM and combi in one squad and the flamer in the other. the hope is that the MM and combi could pop the raider (with re-rolls to hit from vulkan) and then the other squad can toast the contents. seems like a long shot, though. especially if he gets to move first and gets his jink save...

I'm a DE player who has recently played vs Salamanders, used to play CSM so I have an understanding of marine models and tactics, and whose best friend consistently plays Space Marines (often with a melta drop vs me).

The following advice is based on my experiences.
-Running a drop pod AND rhinos isn't a bad thing at all. Especially if you're planning on using the drop as a suicide-bomb. One thing I would change though, is DEFINITELY put Melta in the drop, not flamers. Melta will basically get a pen per hit, whereas flamers will just bounce off vehicle armour. The only time my buddy didn't drop one vehicle per melta drop pod was when he forgot I had Night Shields and landed 2" short.
Put the flamers in your rhinos, and bring melta to his face ASAP.
And then the rhinos can be used to
A- shield your precious manly men from poison dakka until you wanna shoot him apart, and
B- deliver your marines where needed.
Besides, it isn't like you're worried about losing 60% of your marines when a rhino explodes (unlike, let's say, kabalite warriors in a raider explosion)

-The single storm talon; I'd bring it. My friend has started bringing one against me, and as DE we don't have the best AA in the history of this game, so it'll probably be left alone to do it's thing. If he did bring his own flyer, you're more capable of killing it than it is of killing you. If he brought an ADL & Gun with interceptor, well that's a risk you have to take against any army. And even if you have more fliers, possibility of them coming in on separate turns and all getting hit by interceptor is a thing.
Don't worry about it, keep the storm talon on target, and you'll be fine.

The centurions; Grav weapons are rubbish vs DE. The TL-LC is solid, but once you pop boats it's just another single model killed vs troops. Not sure it's worth the points in this setup. I've faced regular hurricane bolted centurion devs, and honestly they scare the pants off me. They can take down boats, and they eat DE troops for breakfast. But you've already got lots of AI, so maybe stick with the AT. Missile launchers are likely sufficient. I'd also question putting Vulkan here; he's a CC scary. Sure he can tank wounds, but he's better off in melee where he belongs. And the Centurions aren't going to be ID'd by lances due to T5, 2 wounds keeps them going. If he's shooting them with lances, your vehicles are surviving so you still win.

Those devs are decent, plasma cannons are expensive but always scary.
Predators are usually a good choice, but vs Lances I'd be a little leery. You can't even use your extra 12" range to your advantage because of Ravagers' mobility. Razorbacks could be solid, can't remember if they lose transport capacity though?

Hope some of this proves useful!

Ricter wrote:

Drop the devs. You have plenty of AP-1/2 and the SM codex has much better HS options.
.

+1
DE are mostly t3 5+ and 6+ save dudes. plasma is overkill and too expenisve