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 Ordana wrote:
If he Knight player wants to stay outside of 24" range thats perfectly fine cause it means he is losing the game on objectives anyway.

Depends on the format, if he stays ahead on kills in ITC, it's a wash with the points you're picking up on objectives and it comes down to secondaries. If the Castellan is hanging back a couple turns it won't necessarily cost him the game. He should be able to cripple one and kill one per turn minimum just with that alone, and after three turns of that type of attrition, it'd be relatively safe to enter punisher range.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 double shooting punishers does 9 wounds with +1 to hit stratagem without rerolling'1. That is only about 500 points. Question - do you have 9 punisher tanks? LOL.1 thing is for sure - you will have no trouble killing his infantry.

everything cadian
9 punishers and as many infantry with lascannons as you can fit.

Quick list I put together
9 punishers with hull heavy bolter (3 units so it's legal)
2 Batallions
4 CC
6 infantry las squads


That leaves
160 points - thats enough for HB sponsons on each tank or you can upgrade all hull mounts to lascannons or upgrade a few tanks to commanders...

Honestly this list looks disgusting now that I am thinking of it.

I think you might be better off just getting more infantry squads with the 150 points.

The tricky part is getting them all in 24" range. Though, if you're willing to sacrifice Cadian reroll 1's for Vostroyan +6" that might be less of an issue. Kind of surprised nobody's tried this yet. It's not like 9 LR hulls is a significant investment when 13 FW Hellhounds made it into the competitive scene.

Humm - the cadian reroll 1's and +1 to hit are vital to the strategy I think. Is there anyway to increase the accuracy of vostroyan russ?

Unfirtunately, only one of them can get the +1BS for the Vostroyan unique strategem. Tank commanders can give a couple reroll 1's out.

You probably wouldn't be getting the cadian reroll 1's since the Knight player would likely stay outside of 24", forcing you to move up. Losing the cadian strategem hurts but I think two tank commander punishers + 9 regular punishers all with triple HB still one rounds the Knight. 30" range is a lot more forgiving for getting all 11 tanks in place IMO, especially if they start their Knight at their back board edge.

Cadian would definitely be the better choice vs. any chaos list as the relic would shred everything in range for a turn.

God, now I really want to try this.

Yeah to be honest blowing armies up with Gatling guns gets me really excited. I don't think I could resist the Pew Pew noises when playing this army. Sadly - I only have 3 punishers.

 Xenomancers wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
3 double shooting punishers does 9 wounds with +1 to hit stratagem without rerolling'1. That is only about 500 points. Question - do you have 9 punisher tanks? LOL.1 thing is for sure - you will have no trouble killing his infantry.

everything cadian
9 punishers and as many infantry with lascannons as you can fit.

Quick list I put together
9 punishers with hull heavy bolter (3 units so it's legal)
2 Batallions
4 CC
6 infantry las squads


That leaves
160 points - thats enough for HB sponsons on each tank or you can upgrade all hull mounts to lascannons or upgrade a few tanks to commanders...

Honestly this list looks disgusting now that I am thinking of it.

I think you might be better off just getting more infantry squads with the 150 points.

The tricky part is getting them all in 24" range. Though, if you're willing to sacrifice Cadian reroll 1's for Vostroyan +6" that might be less of an issue. Kind of surprised nobody's tried this yet. It's not like 9 LR hulls is a significant investment when 13 FW Hellhounds made it into the competitive scene.

Humm - the cadian reroll 1's and +1 to hit are vital to the strategy I think. Is there anyway to increase the accuracy of vostroyan russ?

Unfirtunately, only one of them can get the +1BS for the Vostroyan unique strategem. Tank commanders can give a couple reroll 1's out.

You probably wouldn't be getting the cadian reroll 1's since the Knight player would likely stay outside of 24", forcing you to move up. Losing the cadian strategem hurts but I think two tank commander punishers + 9 regular punishers all with triple HB still one rounds the Knight. 30" range is a lot more forgiving for getting all 11 tanks in place IMO, especially if they start their Knight at their back board edge.

Cadian would definitely be the better choice vs. any chaos list as the relic would shred everything in range for a turn.

God, now I really want to try this.

Yeah to be honest blowing armies up with Gatling guns gets me really excited. I don't think I could resist the Pew Pew noises when playing this army. Sadly - I only have 3 punishers.

Was thinking more brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt than pew pew, but yeah. Too bad the GW Dice app is broken on Android. Rolling 540 dice per turn sounds brutal.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
If he Knight player wants to stay outside of 24" range thats perfectly fine cause it means he is losing the game on objectives anyway.

Depends on the format, if he stays ahead on kills in ITC, it's a wash with the points you're picking up on objectives and it comes down to secondaries. If the Castellan is hanging back a couple turns it won't necessarily cost him the game. He should be able to cripple one and kill one per turn minimum just with that alone, and after three turns of that type of attrition, it'd be relatively safe to enter punisher range.

not to cause a shitstorm, but that's why ITC scoring is bad for tournaments. 40k already prioritizes killing enough on its own. Don't need a dozen objectives dedicated to killing things aswell. You should have to play the board and objectives to win.

I’m working on making a guard army. What is stronger for competitive play death korps or catachan?

IVIOOSE wrote:
I’m working on making a guard army. What is stronger for competitive play death korps or catachan?

Catachan.
DKoK just as any FW army is nigh worthless atm

TankCmdr wrote:
Yeah, the vostroyan punisher spam is juicy, I'd like to see how it plays.

It got me thinking, what about:
9 Vultures w/twin punisher cannons
90 Infantry
3 CCs
Straken
Priest

Two battalions, one air wing,
2000 on the dot

Holy. Expensive to buy and depioyment could be bit cramped. Anybody with 1 and photoshop skills care to simulate what it would look like?-)

So it seems like GW really wants to sell some Ork models for the next few months with these rules previews. Mordian is looking more and more attractive for all the impending first turn charges.

jaxor1983 wrote:
So it seems like GW really wants to sell some Ork models for the next few months with these rules previews. Mordian is looking more and more attractive for all the impending first turn charges.

Mordian is only going to work on the first unit since its unlikely to truly stop a charge unless they did something dumb like charge a baneblade with a truck. Perhaps you could keep your baneblade safe with defensive gunners but most of your units wouldn't be able to stop a dedicated assault unit.

If you're truly concerned with first turn charges I'd say your best bet would be something like Catachan or Valhallans. Catachans give you the attacks to fight back in assault, while Valhallans have better screens and can clean enemy units off of tanks in an emergency. The others will have to rely on the standard infantry screens and hope the line holds.

jaxor1983 wrote:
So it seems like GW really wants to sell some Ork models for the next few months with these rules previews. Mordian is looking more and more attractive for all the impending first turn charges.

Just deploy sufficiently back or have some chaff(which is easy with king of chaff army). They can't pull 30" charges reliably. If you are worried about ork T1 charge how you deal with factions that can do way more reliable T1 charges?

jaxor1983 wrote:
So it seems like GW really wants to sell some Ork models for the next few months with these rules previews. Mordian is looking more and more attractive for all the impending first turn charges.

Go catachan in an Ork Heavy Meta. Paying less points for a S4 melee attack while maintaining a better laser rifle? Add in some priests and the Ork player will seriously have to question if they can kill enough in the intial charge to make it worth it.

Catachan with Straken, Priest and Yarrick. Don't forget Yarrick, it's his time to shine.

Oh yeah I forgot about Yarrick. If orks become the army to beat Yarrick is about as nasty of a counter unit as you could pick and he's still not useless against other units.

If ork titanic units ever somehow become a threat then yarrick next to a shadowsword is probable the nastiest hard counter in existence. +1 to hit, rerolling all misses and wounds, and thats you before you add in regimental buffs. you lose the +1 and reroll wounds against non titanic but lets be real, you're wounding pretty much everything in the game on 2's anyway, and a shadowsword rerolling all misses is still a very scary prospect.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Oh yeah I forgot about Yarrick. If orks become the army to beat Yarrick is about as nasty of a counter unit as you could pick and he's still not useless against other units.

I used to run him a lot. He's useless outside of Orks. Any dedicated cc char/unit wipes the floor with him and his three attacks just isn't enough to do damage when you do get to swing first. He's just way too expensive for what you get at 130 unless you know you'll be up against Orks, which is a shame because he's easily my best painted guard model.

Ok, what's the deal with bullgryns lately? Reecius used them and now the guy who won the SoCal Open did too. What am I missing? They just seem like TEQs with T5, 3W, and worse weapons.

5 str 7 attacks with -1ap and 2D per guy hurts, and you need something to take on enemy CC troops that get to close.

Just Catachen Guardsman are not enough, top level players have found.

That makes sense, but they just seem so easy to kite, and 378pts is more than 90 infantry! Maybe I need to see bullgryns in action, but at this point I'd much rather have more guys and guns...

If you're kiting, that unit by definition isn't in melee, and can get shot. When the intent is to counter CC, that's 2/2.

Ah gotcha, so lock up a threat with chaff, then hit with the gryns to clear out the threat?

TankCmdr wrote:
Ah gotcha, so lock up a threat with chaff, then hit with the gryns to clear out the threat?

Yep.
If you want to see it check out Frontlinegaming_tv on Twitch, SoCal games are up in their channel, you can watch Brandon Grant on both day 2 vids and see how he uses them.

Also concerning the 9x Vulture list, they could just focus down all your land based infantry and if you only have fliers on the table don't you auto lose?

 Dynas wrote:
Also concerning the 9x Vulture list, they could just focus down all your land based infantry and if you only have fliers on the table don't you auto lose?

You know I hadn't about that...is the rule for flyers like planes, etc or anything with the fly keyword? Because if it's the fly keyword you could wreck some of the competitive necron lists that are 90% destroyers and tomb blades...

It is Flyers. Not just fly keyword.

Its the Flyer Battlefield role.

And it was 90? infantry? That should live for a while if you focus on surviving with them.

 Ordana wrote:
Its the Flyer Battlefield role.

And it was 90? infantry? That should live for a while if you focus on surviving with them.

Im pretty sure it is the flier slot on the list. I think its an oversight that the vulture is fly and not a flier. as it never really lands.

90 infantry can die suprisingly fast, especially guardsmens.

Yeah I've seen 90 guardsmen die turn 1 surprisingly often, both on ITC and regular missions. Granted it normally took some sort of Uber alpha strike aggressive list like pre Nerf blood Angels to do it but it's not impossible.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Yeah I've seen 90 guardsmen die turn 1 surprisingly often, both on ITC and regular missions. Granted it normally took some sort of Uber alpha strike aggressive list like pre Nerf blood Angels to do it but it's not impossible.

Lots of Tesla (not 90 but definitely probaly 50, so in 2 turns your done. Ive done it with Nids devilgant bomb shoot twice followed up by T1 Genestealer charge with kraken. That may have been regular conscripts though back when that was popular.

 Ordana wrote:
Its the Flyer Battlefield role.

And it was 90? infantry? That should live for a while if you focus on surviving with them.

Dunno. Orks lose 60 models a turn easily and they are T4 and often 5++. So unless you reduce his firepower a lot 90 guys don't survive THAT long. IG also has morale more to worry than orks who have LD20 even after 10 casualties and could have LD30 as long as another mob is close or just pass with d3 MW's.

Not in turn 1 obviously but turn 3 if you don't keep care of those 90 guardsmen are easily dead and wipeout by boots on ground rule could be opponents goal with that flyer swarm...

Can someone explain the difference between the REgimental orders of the Voystroyan vs the Valhallan. It seem tey are the same,excpet Valhallan can kill your own guys, and Vostroyan doesn't....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thoughts on this list.


Strategy is pure board control and swarm into enemy. Once locked into combat use Vostroyan orders to shoot in melee, then stabby stab with bayonets in fight phase. Commissars insure discipline. Hellhoudns harass flanks and move aroud quick. Astropath is there to use shoured or barrier as need. Priest buffs the sonscript chain. The 30 regular shock troops screen the Basilisk with the Master of Ordnance. S. Also considered taking another relic, not sure what one though. Maybe armor of graf or deathmask of ollanius.

Torn between what regiment though. The choices are as follows.

Catachan seems best for bonus strength and leadership for all the infantry/conscripts and getting rerolls on both the Basilisk and Hellhounds getting consitent high number of shots.

Moridan forRepel the enemy character target and Volley fire stratgem, the baislisk will like be withing 3" of each other gainin +1 to hit, so hitting on 3's rerolling 1's with the MoO. hellhounds could be run together also gaining +1 to hit. In addition infantry will likely be packed in gaining leadership and overwatch bonus on 5's if I am charged. Which means conscripts are hitting on 5's when they shoot or are charged.

Voystroyan for sheer mob rule/board control. Extneded rapid fire range could be helpful , shoot in combat and melee in combat. Firstbron pride looks good with COnscript blobs hitting on 4's with FRFSRF or using Repel the ENemy.

Valhallan, Grim demeanour can help with faile dleadership, but with commisars I think it might be fine. Could be good for Vehicles degredation though.

Stratgems
Stratagem for T1 Cover save if go 2nd
Firstborn Pride Every turn
Take Cover (does this stack with the new Stratagem that is army wide cover, i think not.)
Fight to the Death if needed for morale
Genadiers and Vengenace for cadia for overwatch
Consodliate Squads
Aeriel SPotter each turn for Basilisk
Crush them on Hellhounds each turn