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Does it seem like the primarchs had a superiority complex over astartes, and the rest of the humans in the imperium..... they were privleged,


it seems like these 18 men thought they were princes of the galaxy, better then everyone else besides the emperor (pre heresy of course)

how much was a primarch superior to an astartes...is it enough to justify having a superiority complex

does that justify them thinking their better then everyone else..... its like the emperor just said... ok you 18 guys can do whatever you want..... despite their also being millions, billions, trillions of other humans in the imperium, you 18 guys are more important..

The primarchs don't have a complex- they *are* better. They're just seldom written that way because even the dumbest of them is still a world class genius.

Physically and mentally they exceed any and all astartes by a large margin. I wouldn't give an armoured marine with power weapons a 100:1 against a naked primarch.

 Kojiro wrote:
The primarchs don't have a complex- they *are* better. They're just seldom written that way because even the dumbest of them is still a world class genius.

Physically and mentally they exceed any and all astartes by a large margin. I wouldn't give an armoured marine with power weapons a 100:1 against a naked primarch.

dang i knew they were more powerful then astartes, but i didnt know tha tits a wide gap

(im still kind of new to 40k)

so a single primarch could take on what 5 space marines by himself 1/5 ratio type thing

With equal armor and gear? More like...50-100 or more depending on the Primarch.

 curran12 wrote:
With equal armor and gear? More like...50-100 or more depending on the Primarch.

thats crazy i didnt know the primarchs were much more powerful then astartes

Don't forget, most of these guys just naturally became planetary rulers off their own hand. They're brilliant and talented.

Here's a few examples. Dorn is shown to, at least once, be able to cross a room and lay out a Captain so fast the guy getting hit didn't even know it til he hit the wall behind him. Dorn is blindingly fast to a man with enhanced senses and reflexes.

Another example- perhaps the most amazing- is Sanguinius. He fought for 55 days straight before being jumped on by a Bloodthirster and hurled down several stories to embed in the granite. He got up, grabbed the Bloodthirster and *broke it over his knee*.

Primarchs are terrifying. They should never have been made for tabletop, and for a long time weren't for exactly that reason. But you know, $$$.

ok what about a primarch vs. a custode?

They are better by a large gap (ravine). If you look around the forums or Lexicanum you'll see. They can fistfight an Eldar Avatar of Khaine, so a Custodes would be easy.

LightKing wrote:
ok what about a primarch vs. a custode?

Also not even close.

If I conquered an entire planed by myself I think I'd have a superiority complex too.

The Primarchs did not think they were better. They knew it.

Konrad Curze, with nothing more than his bare hands, butchered dozens of his guards while Dorn was detaining him, ripping their spines from their power-armoured backs and tearing them to pieces.

Sanguinius could snap a Bloodthirster's back over his knee, and telekinetically slow the descent of a ten kilometer starship.

Magnus the Red could kill hundreds of Space Wolves with a glance, he could destroy Titans in an inferno of fire, crush mountains physically (So could others, but Magnus has been explicitly noted doing so), and raze the surface of Prospero with his mind.

Custodians?

Even the weakest Primarch (Lorgar, before he became Chaos' high priest) could tear them limb from limb. Angron actually has. In a rage, he butchered ten Custodians unarmored and unarmed. It required Malcador psychically knocking him out to quell his rage.

Primarchs were basically demigods.

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
If I conquered an entire planet by myself I think I'd have a superiority complex too.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Primarchs did not think they were better. They knew it.

Konrad Curze, with nothing more than his bare hands, butchered dozens of his guards while Dorn was detaining him, ripping their spines from their power-armoured backs and tearing them to pieces.

Sanguinius could snap a Bloodthirster's back over his knee, and telekinetically slow the descent of a ten kilometer starship.

Magnus the Red could kill hundreds of Space Wolves with a glance, he could destroy Titans in an inferno of fire, crush mountains physically (So could others, but Magnus has been explicitly noted doing so), and raze the surface of Prospero with his mind.

Custodians?

Even the weakest Primarch (Lorgar, before he became Chaos' high priest) could tear them limb from limb. Angron actually has. In a rage, he butchered ten Custodians unarmored and unarmed. It required Malcador psychically knocking him out to quell his rage.

Primarchs were basically demigods.

how was malcador able to knock out angron?

also did the astartes in the various legions acknowlege their primarch's superority


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Primarchs did not think they were better. They knew it.

Konrad Curze, with nothing more than his bare hands, butchered dozens of his guards while Dorn was detaining him, ripping their spines from their power-armoured backs and tearing them to pieces.

Sanguinius could snap a Bloodthirster's back over his knee, and telekinetically slow the descent of a ten kilometer starship.

Magnus the Red could kill hundreds of Space Wolves with a glance, he could destroy Titans in an inferno of fire, crush mountains physically (So could others, but Magnus has been explicitly noted doing so), and raze the surface of Prospero with his mind.

Custodians?

Even the weakest Primarch (Lorgar, before he became Chaos' high priest) could tear them limb from limb. Angron actually has. In a rage, he butchered ten Custodians unarmored and unarmed. It required Malcador psychically knocking him out to quell his rage.

Primarchs were basically demigods.

but didnt he lose to Russ?

LightKing wrote:


how was malcador able to knock out angron?

also did the astartes in the various legions acknowlege their primarch's superority

Malcador is one of the three most powerful psykers to ever be part of the Imperium, the others being Magnus the Red and the Emperor himself.

And yes. Very few people had any delusions about the superiority of the Primarchs. Lucius the Eternal once deluded himself into thinking that in a duel of blades, he could kill Fulgrim, but after seeing what Fulgrim could do when he really cut loose, he acknowledged that he'd have exactly zero chance against Fulgrim. And this is while Fulgrim had just fought dozens of other Astartes in an ambush and was practically naked.

but didnt he lose to Russ?

I'll spare you some of the context and my own opinion on it, but all Primarchs are at least latently psychic, Russ was actually more actively psychic than most (He could emit a howl that was super effective against psykers and could control wolves). He is far more resistant to sorcery than his sons.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

LightKing wrote:


how was malcador able to knock out angron?

also did the astartes in the various legions acknowlege their primarch's superority

Malcador is one of the three most powerful psykers to ever be part of the Imperium, the others being Magnus the Red and the Emperor himself.

And yes. Very few people had any delusions about the superiority of the Primarchs. Lucius the Eternal once deluded himself into thinking that in a duel of blades, he could kill Fulgrim, but after seeing what Fulgrim could do when he really cut loose, he acknowledged that he'd have exactly zero chance against Fulgrim. And this is while Fulgrim had just fought dozens of other Astartes in an ambush and was practically naked.

but didnt he lose to Russ?

I'll spare you some of the context and my own opinion on it, but all Primarchs are at least latently psychic, Russ was actually more actively psychic than most (He could emit a howl that was super effective against psykers and could control wolves). He is far more resistant to sorcery than his sons.

so Malcador could best many of the primarchs in single combat?

Well, I don't know about that, this was an unarmored and unarmed Angron, and we don't know the context of Malcador putting Angron to sleep other than that it happened, but he is such a powerful psyker that it is possible. Physically though, he'd have no chance. Lorgar with a casual backhand broke his legs and ribs, and he had to psychically support himself to stand afterwards.

There's a bit in the Fulgrim book (or the one following that) where Fulgrim's inner circle are convinced his possessed by a demon and try to subdue him to force the demon out. They full out crack him on his unarmoured head with a thunder hammer and he does not fall.

Then there's Lorgar surviving a plasma cannon shot from a warhound titan.

Primarchs are not only ridiculously tough, They are ridiculously strong, fast, and psychic.

 Kojiro wrote:
Don't forget, most of these guys just naturally became planetary rulers off their own hand. They're brilliant and talented.

Here's a few examples. Dorn is shown to, at least once, be able to cross a room and lay out a Captain so fast the guy getting hit didn't even know it til he hit the wall behind him. Dorn is blindingly fast to a man with enhanced senses and reflexes.

Another example- perhaps the most amazing- is Sanguinius. He fought for 55 days straight before being jumped on by a Bloodthirster and hurled down several stories to embed in the granite. He got up, grabbed the Bloodthirster and *broke it over his knee*.

Primarchs are terrifying. They should never have been made for tabletop, and for a long time weren't for exactly that reason. But you know, $$$.

I agree. One has to take it with a pinch of salt, though. All proportions are wacky in 40K, from Marine VS Guardsman model size to stat lines.

So is Malcador on Primarch level power wise

Maybe.

Pretty much the difference between Astartes and mortals, that's Astartes vs Primarch.

MarsNZ wrote:
Pretty much the difference between Astartes and mortals, that's Astartes vs Primarch.

by the way (off topic real quick) what was the rarity of seeing your primarch.... did the primarch usually train with their legion or train differently

lets say im a space wolf, what was the chance of me actually laying my eyes upon Leman Russ...how rare was it for a legionaire astartes to see their primarch or any primarch for that matter

From what I've read in the HH novels that depends on the rank of the character in question and which primarch he was hoping to see. Mortarion seemed to be quite reclusive, whereas Russ seems to kick it with his lads fairly often. Primarchs would get very little out of training with their sons, being that they are an order of magnitude more powerful. Guilliman in particular was pretty into the whole 'games and theory' stuff with the Ultramarines.

MarsNZ wrote:
From what I've read in the HH novels that depends on the rank of the character in question and which primarch he was hoping to see. Mortarion seemed to be quite reclusive, whereas Russ seems to kick it with his lads fairly often. Primarchs would get very little out of training with their sons, being that they are an order of magnitude more powerful. Guilliman in particular was pretty into the whole 'games and theory' stuff with the Ultramarines.

yeah but im sure only a few were able to hang out with russ during the times they hung out with him

im sure he didnt hang out with every space wolf

That's funny. So if a primarch is to an astartes what an astartes is to a human, this translates to tabletop to an primarch having str, t, ws and bs of 5. Heh, just keeps showing how underpowered Astartes statswise are in the game.

Pre-HH, it was rather rare for a rank and file Astartes to see their respective Primarch, not to mention the other ones. However, Captains and Lord Commanders used to see them regularly during strategy meetings and the like.

In Fulgrim, it was noted that seeing two Primarchs in one place was a unique event, more so for 3. IIRC, even the arrogant Lucius acknowledged that witnessing the 8 Traitor Primarchs after the Drop Site Massacre was a historic event.

The Primarchs were princes of the galaxy. The proud sons of the Emperor were light-years beyond even the strongest Astartes. They were men personally made by the Emperor.