Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I think with this one piece of fortification GW has gone a long way towards balancing shooty and assault - and probably completely by accident.

Now, to jog the memories of the members who have clearly purchased the Stronghold Assault supplement but just need to be reminded of how Void Shields work;

~50 point building, AV 13, contains one void shield and can take two more for 25pts each
~Has no official model, and has battlements on top - expect this to be ruthlessly exploited by people who want to MFA without actually MFA
~Fortifications can be placed anywhere up to the halfway mark on the table [I think - need to find specific rule for that]
~You may take a "Void Shield Network" of 1-3 void shields amongst other things as a single fort choice
~Void shields are an AV 12 barrier that gets between any shooting attack originating from outside of 12" of the generator against any target within the shield radius. RAW this *includes* your own shots against enemy units that get inside your field - as it damn well should!
~Any glancing or penetrating hit collapses a field. Fields recharge on a 5+ at the end of the controlling players turn

Now my favourite build of all time is Trukk rush. This necessitates I take a crapload of fragile AV10 vehicles and hope I get first turn - otherwise they'll get blown off of the table. If I take Void Shields, suddenly a gunline getting first turn has to punch through 3-9 layers of AV12 to get to my trukks - who would then have either 5+ KFF saves or 4+ saves from hiding behind my artfully modelled and/or well placed Void Shield generators.

If I place the Void Shields near the halfway mark, I can get protection for my trukks both at their starting positions *and* after their first move when they go 24" up the table. Not to mention take solid 4+ cover saves from the actual bulk of the generator against many shots that get through

Finally, and this was the big one for me - as I expect many gunlines to take void shields, once I actually get to the enemy table half then much of the enemy shooting directed from outer edges of their deployment against my assault units will actually hit their *own* void shields!

So what we have here is a fortification that gives a huge bonus to assault based lists, and a modest one to shooty lists - that can actually be counterproductive and provide a bonus to the enemy if they are more choppy than shooty.

What do you guys think? Will void shields help balance out the current shooty heavy 'metagame'? Or is this just a pipe dream and my trukks are gonna get shot off the table just as easily as before?

That's a lot of work to put into modeling for something someone in your gaming group will let you try once, and then say FETH THAT any other time you want to use it, while telling all the others what BS it is.

Basically nobody is going to let you do it again. Even the most casual and friendly players have their breaking point.

Basically nobody is going to let you do it again. Even the most casual and friendly players have their breaking point.

Do what exactly?

Ten bucks says your utterly disregarding the point of this post (the implications of the AV12 forcefield) and focusing entirely on the potential shape of the void shield generator - which even if modelled in a *reasonable* fashion and not some herp de derp board spanning wall can still easily provide cover to units behind it.

Do what exactly?

Ten bucks says your utterly disregarding the point of this post (the implications of the AV12 forcefield) and focusing entirely on the potential shape of the void shield generator - which even if modelled in a *reasonable* fashion and not some herp de derp board spanning wall can still easily provide cover to units behind it.

Early consensus seems to be that Escalation and Stronghold Assault won't be a part of competitive tourney level 40k. You are correct in pointing out the fact that Void Shields are a game changer. They open the door to some very broken combinations. Hence, you probably won't get to abuse outside of casual games.

I'd be keen to be your guinea pig for this one.

I totally agree that void shields look to be a shot in the arm for assault armies. My Chaos gribblies are going to have a much better time hiding out near their "bloody altar of khorne" for the first two turns while they rush up the field.

The reasonable size seems to be about the same as a turretless-vengeance battery, or slightly smaller than a single-level bastion (something that you can put about 10 models on top of), but that will still give pretty good cover midfield, AND you can purchase some barricades to go along with it. 20pts for 12inches of 4+ cover in the middle of the table.

Escalation might not be coming to tourneys, but everything from stonghold bar the D-bunkers are looking to be fair game. They're no more out of place then the defense lines and bastions from the BRB.

I get these fancy yoghurts all the time. Probs about 4" tall and 5" wide. With a few orky bits they'd make fine gubbins, so thats how big I intend to make mine.

Any idea how large the barricades are? I haven't seen anything saying what size they are, so my first guess would be the same rough dimensions as a small (or large?) aegis section.

Early consensus seems to be that Escalation and Stronghold Assault won't be a part of competitive tourney level 40k

Could be a fair point, but wouldn't affect what 'friendly and casual' players would play with, especially when its a modest boost to armies that have been horridly nerfed edition after edition.

Any tournament that bans these and doesn't comp vanilla 40k to the extent where assault can participate isn't a tourney I'd be going to.

MarsNZ wrote:
I'd be keen to be your guinea pig for this one.

Sweet. Clubs closed for the next few weeks, and I also gotta put these together along with my superheavies. I'll drop you a message (here or CG forum?) when its ready.

Yeah cool, drop me a line in the new year.

All the obsticals are 6" long, and I'd guess an inch or so wide, and must be placed wholly within 6" of the structure they're purchased for. Long Aegis walls would work fine, though they're a bit short (you could attach a long and a short, and it would be about right).

I though since it is a fortification it provided 3+ cover. Am i wrong?

I think your right. Now if only anything in the game actually cared about cover anymore...

I have also been thinking about this. The void shields actually don't help the really broken stuff that much or gunlines that much but they are a huge shot in the arm to assault based and close in shooting armies. The fun thing is the promethium pipes also seem like a great buff for burna boyz in wagons.

I think the question you need to be asking here is whether some AV 12 "HP" to kill before the rest of your stuff takes any damage is more or less of a boost than the boost the gunline army gets from being able to take multiple bastions/difficult terrain obstacles/etc. The average gunline isn't going to have that much of a problem dealing with the void shields, but the average assault army really doesn't like things like broadside squads hiding in bastions. It seems to me that you'd be better off spending those void shield points on more assault threats and limiting the gunline to a single bastion/ADL.

 ansacs wrote:
I have also been thinking about this. The void shields actually don't help the really broken stuff that much or gunlines that much but they are a huge shot in the arm to assault based and close in shooting armies. The fun thing is the promethium pipes also seem like a great buff for burna boyz in wagons.

Was thinking that myself after I saw the promy pipe as part of the void network. I'll have to give burna boyz another go, haven't taken them in ages because wagons seem to just die no matter what I send them against or how many I use.

Promy pipes are also a good way to give cheap cover to tough vehicles - infantry take that risk of being hit by flames, but BW and stuff don't care about some weak fire hits.

I put a question in YMDC the other day about troops in vehicles getting promy bonus. Personally I reckon they should - it could be ruled either way though.

I think the question you need to be asking here is whether some AV 12 "HP" to kill before the rest of your stuff takes any damage is more or less of a boost than the boost the gunline army gets from being able to take multiple bastions/difficult terrain obstacles/etc. The average gunline isn't going to have that much of a problem dealing with the void shields, but the average assault army really doesn't like things like broadside squads hiding in bastions. It seems to me that you'd be better off spending those void shield points on more assault threats and limiting the gunline to a single bastion/ADL.

Good point man. Aside from the voids the forts as a whole enormously benefit shooty and penalize assault.

Trukks benefit so enormously from AV12 shields that its a no brainer - a question of "how many" not "should I". However more durable assault options might want to take less or no voids and go for more assault as you've suggested - though keep in mind, that hasn't worked for us choppy gits so far so its not gonna work any better now that shooters have more boxes to hide in.

Overall though, if forts are in then shooty armies are getting these bonuses regardless of whether the bonuses are bigger or smaller than the voids. I'm just glad that at least one fort actually helps assault lists, whereas all the others just crap on them mercilessly.

Honestly adding a bunch of bastions greatly decreases the offensive output of shooty armies. For the specific case of orks this may be worthwhile as they do not come with grenades, may not have sufficient template weapons, and tend to have difficulties against AV14. Against most assault based armies being inside of a building that is being assaulted is not a fun experience and leads to 10d3 S4 hits very quickly.

Removing 9 AV12 HP is not as easy as you make it out to be. Depending on the rules interpretation it either takes ~1 entire buffmander + max broadsides and drones or could take three of these units to deal with it. This will almost always be worth 340+ pts of damage that would otherwise have been inflicted. Then you get the 3+ cover, etc. Then next turn you shield average 3 regenerated shields.

The best thing about this is 9 void shields will really mess with some of the titan builds.

Yeah, void shields are the greatest thing about the new supplements.

They counter everything everyone had complained about before. Revenants, massed Tau firepower, venom spam, everything.

Assault armies should be very happy and I think you can't have escalation/stronghold assault without void shields.

GW chimed in on modelling a bit here.



As I'm unfamiliar, does this mean we can place them up field and then run towards them while using them as a kind of wall that needs to be brought down before shots can hit our army?

I like the void shield and I dont think its overly broken, it gives a nice balance and is letting us assault focused armies come back.
Gunlines will find away to play against it so people can stop whining that you will try it once and no one will want to play you again. People still do triple drakes and tides, they still play and defend that thats not broken, so damn right im gonna bring a void shield.

As for modelling one, im thinking half coke can on its side with some disks rising up to look like the shield generators on hoth.


Question: How do void shields affect CC? Do units still reap the benifits of them in CC or can my boys chop with no worries they will be defended by their shield?

Wouldn't you rather have 190-340 points of more guys?

 Solosam47 wrote:
I like the void shield and I dont think its overly broken, it gives a nice balance and is letting us assault focused armies come back.
Gunlines will find away to play against it so people can stop whining that you will try it once and no one will want to play you again. People still do triple drakes and tides, they still play and defend that thats not broken, so damn right im gonna bring a void shield.

As for modelling one, im thinking half coke can on its side with some disks rising up to look like the shield generators on hoth.


Question: How do void shields affect CC? Do units still reap the benifits of them in CC or can my boys chop with no worries they will be defended by their shield?

So you would just use it without the battlements its supposed to have? I doubt anyone would complain but it'd be a shame to waste some good cover.

No, it doesn't effect CC in any way.

By weapon battery, does he mean about the size of the Quad Gun? I was thinking of a sort of crystal like thing to be used by my crons.

Stormbreed wrote:
GW chimed in on modelling a bit here.



As I'm unfamiliar, does this mean we can place them up field and then run towards them while using them as a kind of wall that needs to be brought down before shots can hit our army?

Why should we even listen to "Eddie", aside from the fact that he obviously has a tenuous grasp on the rules for the Void Shield Generator.

Weapon Battery?!? Something of this size;



Has Battlements?!? Where is that supposed to be in addition to the void shield generator itself, Eddie?!?

If think the suggestion of using the base of a Bastion is excellent.

Well...if you remove the gun, you can probably get a small squad to stand on it.

And lets not forget that "Bright Eddie" answered with suggesting a set that consists of two structures as an example of size for a single structure.
Making his answer even less intelligent.

Steelmage99 wrote:
And lets not forget that "Bright Eddie" answered with suggesting a set that consists of two structures as an example of size for a single structure.
Making his answer even less intelligent.

Yeah about that...wouldn't that be batteries? A battery would be a single emplacement, wouldn't it?

It'll always be a toss up between more guys or halfway point shields (although I would probably pick the shields in bigger games tbf)... the real recent game changer is the 3pt servo skulls...

Pretty sure he was referring to the Wall of Martyrs weapon batteries. There are a number of pictures in the Apocalypse book showing three of them linked together, and they all have battements.

SJ

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:
And lets not forget that "Bright Eddie" answered with suggesting a set that consists of two structures as an example of size for a single structure.
Making his answer even less intelligent.

Yeah about that...wouldn't that be batteries? A battery would be a single emplacement, wouldn't it?

You are right. One Wall of Martyrs Vengeance Weapon Battery can be bought, and then an additional can be added to it.

jeffersonian000 wrote:Pretty sure he was referring to the Wall of Martyrs weapon batteries. There are a number of pictures in the Apocalypse book showing three of them linked together, and they all have battements.

SJ

The picture I shoved was of the Wall of Martyrs Vengeance Weapon Battery(s).
The other Wall of Martyrs structures are; Imperial Defense Lines, Imperial Defense Emplacements, Imperial Bunker and Firestorm Redoubt.
What are you referring to?

Poly Ranger wrote:
It'll always be a toss up between more guys or halfway point shields (although I would probably pick the shields in bigger games tbf)... the real recent game changer is the 3pt servo skulls...

Yeah, feth the skulls. They add nothing and take away so much from a game thats already running low on strategic choice

I don't have my inquizzy supplement handy - is there limits on where the servo skulls can be placed (x" from enemy troops for instance) and would halfway void shields create a bubble of no servo deployment to help players who actually use infiltration to be less screwed?

Servo skulls are placed before deployment. There are no enemy troops to be concerned with at that point in time. Void shields don't have any meaningful interaction with servo skulls.