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They're about as much of an urban environment as a small township is.

Simply because things are called "cities" does not mean they are something like we understand now. A Hive City is a monumental construct, with its own ecosystems in many cases. What's more, this continued assumption that because they fought within the cities means they're "specialized urban fighters" like the Death Korps of Krieg's Siege Regiments are for trench warfare.

The Siege Regiments are just that: the trench warfare regiments. The Krieg have conventional forces as well, but clearly you either didn't know that or are ignoring that in favor of focusing upon one aspect of Armageddon's forces.

I know what a Hive city encompasses, and I didn't say they were specialised urban fighters as such, merely that they have had more experience at fighting in their hive cities than most, including the DKoK. As for, fighting conventional battles, which I know that DKoK are just as capable as most guard regiments are, the Steel Legion do it better simply due to their 95% mechanised nature. Whereas the DKoK are unlikely to have as many Chimeras as needed to mechanise 95% of their forces, the Steel Legion do, and so can use as many vehicles as befits the situation, giving them tactical flexibility over the DKoK. While, the DKoK may have plenty of artillery, its not exactly like the Steel Legion are lacking themselves. The DKoK may be fearless fighters, but sometimes they may get a bit carried away and become unable to asses the situation tactically (in a similar way to BT, and so it is to their credit that they can be compared to SM in such a way). However, this can manifest as unpredictable and difficult to contain. This is why they have commissars, to prevent them absolving their sins for no use. On the other hand you have Steel Legion, who although possessing the courage and ferocity of most other regiments, don't throw themselves at the enemy in the same way that DKoK sometimes do. The Steel Legion are the same as the other average guard regiments, but they have greater mobility without sacrificing firepower.

Kanluwen wrote:
Except what they're saying is not based upon fluff. This thread is a bloated abomination of "I like X because they look cool!", and has been for awhile.
It's also not based upon accurate information for the most part.

Badass isn't exactly the most objectively measured quantity, it's an opinion question and people have every right to base their opinion off of how the IG look, or whatever they decide "badass" means.

Banzaimash wrote:The Steel Legion is renowned for using large numbers of Basilisks. As I've said earlier, if the Steel Legion had its own Forge World line then it would also have loads of cool stuff like Gorgons.

Yes, your arguement is essentially "if Steel Legion had Gorgons they'd be cool too."

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Banzaimash wrote:The Steel Legion is renowned for using large numbers of Basilisks. As I've said earlier, if the Steel Legion had its own Forge World line then it would also have loads of cool stuff like Gorgons.

Yes, your arguement is essentially "if Steel Legion had Gorgons they'd be cool too."

And dont forget the "if the DKoK had CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTS instead of those silly Gorgons they'd be super cool" line!

AtoMaki wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Banzaimash wrote:The Steel Legion is renowned for using large numbers of Basilisks. As I've said earlier, if the Steel Legion had its own Forge World line then it would also have loads of cool stuff like Gorgons.

Yes, your arguement is essentially "if Steel Legion had Gorgons they'd be cool too."

And dont forget the "if the DKoK had CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORTS instead of those silly Gorgons they'd be super cool" line!

Well duh.

Anyway, I find it strange that Kan and Banz are arguing about who is better at city fighting. Of the options, the planets that are most similair are Armaggedon and Krieg. They're both blasted wastelands that you can't go outside in. They both live in cramped tunnel live environs. Neither side is particularly better at fighting in cities or wastelands. There's a reason they have a similair look and theme to them.

I guess. One's warmachine is tough and slow (Krieg) while the others is fast yet relatively not so tough (Steel Legion).

Like someone said before they fill different roles. Gorgons work for the horrible WWI style wars the Krieg get sent to. Even though Gorgons are more protective I'd rather be in a Chimera because if your in a Gorgon that means your being sent into an almost guaranteed death scenario anyway.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Well duh.

Anyway, I find it strange that Kan and Banz are arguing about who is better at city fighting. Of the options, the planets that are most similair are Armaggedon and Krieg. They're both blasted wastelands that you can't go outside in. They both live in cramped tunnel live environs. Neither side is particularly better at fighting in cities or wastelands. There's a reason they have a similair look and theme to them.

This is rather an important point I didn't even consider. Krieg was once a busy, cramped Hive world before 'The Purging'. Now they live underground in networks of tunnels bunkers and underground dwellings. However! Like the dockers welding themselves into their cranes to take on Gargants, another thing that always brought a shiver to my spine was the way in which the Steel Legion often fight the Orks underground in the labyrinth-like tunnels beneath the Hives. Must be a nightmare, fighting in near-darkness, with Orks rushing down the cramped tunnels/walkways being blasted by lasfire and incinerated by flamers, the darkness and cramped conditions magnifying the sound and sights of the fighting.

Please don't misunderstand me, I do like the Steel Legion, the way they're described as defending their world in Codex: Armageddon & Epic 40k: Armageddon is superb and provides fantastic reading. Just I like the DKoK more and I don't truly think that the Steel Legion's tactics of manouverability are that much better than the meat-grinder way of warfare that the Krieg Siege Regiments employ. Krieg exists solely to pump out soldiers and regiments at a phenomenal rate, so there will always be replacements for the losses - it makes their tactics sensible for their resources - drown the enemy in opponents until they can't take anymore.

Mind you, what this thread -really- need is more love for the Iron Guard. Anyone want to discuss how unbelievably awesome they are? Not quite so 'badass', goodness I hate that word, as Krieg in my eyes, but their (silly) way of waging war conjures up wonderful images of lines marching towards the enemy, firing volleys, fire & advance, assaulting in close-order columns. Stern and good stuff.

Mordians are an aquired taste. I like how their world is very grimdark with every drop of water and food having to be rationed but beyond that they are one of my least favorite. They are kind of like the anti-Krieg, with their clean, perfectly pressed uniforms.

Think thats why I like them so much, a stark contrast from the dark, dirty Krieg. Gives me both extremes of the spectrum. I also do rather love the historical periods in Western history of c1450-1918, so there's a lot of lining up and firing in volleys in that huge span of history.

So do the Praetorians, but they have nicer hats.

The Iron Guard are awesome, but which real life army are they based off? (their uniform looks like a generic dress uniform style piece, but they aren't instantly recognisable as X in space, such is the case for most IG.).

In my opinion they're an amalgamation of European infantry from 1840-1900, perhaps earlier than 1840. They're very 'Prussian' in their appearance, but Prussia did set the standard for military dress & practice for a rather long-time. Perhaps the armies they resemble closest would be those of the Franco-Prussian War of the 1870s. That's just my opinion and I may well be wrong. Might be based off of 1796-1815 (Napoleonic) Prussians. Certainly their flat caps match those of the Prussian Landwehr while the smart uniforms are relevant to any of the European armies of the time period. I doubt they're based off of Russian infantry of that time period, as we already had the Valhallans based off of post-Revolution Russians.

Praetorians are always awesome because they are, essentially, Colonnial British Troops in Space. Pith helms are truly fantastic, ask any Steampunk, and my biggest regret of my youth, with regards to 40k, was never owning the massive Praetorian box when it was released. A friend of mine got it and I was jealous for months. Actually, I still am jealous and that was over 15 years ago.
If they ever released plastic Praetorians (or Mordians with a Praetorian headswap) I would instantly buy a whole army and build 'em as the Royal Sussex Regiment in space!

DKOK honestly, I'm getting bored of Cadians.

@God-Emperor of Mankind
MY LORD!!!

I am here to serve you.... Lead us to victory sire and we will follow you!!!

@God-Emperor of Mankind

How the Feth did it take someone this long to take that username, I mean Really?!?!

Lucky luck

Anyways.....Back to those Imperial Guardsmen. It's a front with Coa anyway, he's actually a diehard Necron fan.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:He's actually a diehard Necron fan.

Proff?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:So do the Praetorians, but they have nicer hats.

Quoted For Truth

Just saying, Kriegers can't be good at urban combat, considering there's about nothing left standing of a city when they come around

The troops in Stalingrad were pretty good at urban combat.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The troops in Stalingrad were pretty good at urban combat.

really? i thought the russians ended up with only a 100m stretch of land and were taking the most horrific losses (unless you meant the germans who went that great either or if you were being sarcasic my bad)

i think that most people, myself included, are confusing the most bad ass with who is better or who would win

if it were the latter two we all know it would be cadians, not only can they out resourse outnumber and outgun almost all other guard, they have the tactical genius of creed. (cadians are not my favs btw)


for me badass means: best looking most ballsy and most epic awsomeness

best looking for me yould have to be the elysians that bulpup lasgun is just awsome

most ballsy would either be elysians (comon they are jumping out of a plane with a little backpack who's spirit might decide to fail midair) or rough riders (they are riding into battle on horses)

however the most epically awsome are the Tanith First they have guant as their CO and still fights harder than most even though their home planet was destroyed

Squidmanlolz wrote:@God-Emperor of Mankind

How the Feth did it take someone this long to take that username, I mean Really?!?!

Lucky luck

I know right? I was just as surprised as you when I found out this name had not been taken hehehe.

Brother Coa wrote:@God-Emperor of Mankind
MY LORD!!!

I am here to serve you.... Lead us to victory sire and we will follow you!!!

We make for the Eye of Terror, to finish what Chaos has started 10,000 years ago, as I am finally off that throne, hopefully my other sons will awaken soon, hint hint roboute your not really poisoned, you just fell asleep after years of reworking things, Lion, stop hiding in the rock, where did Russ go? oh and right, WHY am I being venerated like a God?!?! I told people I am not! oh well, looks like I'll have to have a stern talking to the Ecclesiarchy once this is over.

And I have to applaud the Inquisition for their efforts in preventing total anarchy, but, I think I'm gonna have to dismantle the Ecclesiarchy.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The troops in Stalingrad were pretty good at urban combat.

really? i thought the russians ended up with only a 100m stretch of land and were taking the most horrific losses (unless you meant the germans who went that great either or if you were being sarcasic my bad)

Both sides were excellent city fighters because if you didn't learn quick you were dead. I was debunking the idea that urban combat only take place in intact cities. Usually it's the other way around. Stalingrad was like 99% destroyed but that obviously counts as a city fight.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The troops in Stalingrad were pretty good at urban combat.

really? i thought the russians ended up with only a 100m stretch of land and were taking the most horrific losses (unless you meant the germans who went that great either or if you were being sarcasic my bad)

Both sides were excellent city fighters because if you didn't learn quick you were dead. I was debunking the idea that urban combat only take place in intact cities. Usually it's the other way around. Stalingrad was like 99% destroyed but that obviously counts as a city fight.

sorry i missed that point :(

though the russians were battered by the germans (who had effectivly won) it was only the fact that the romainian troops protecting the flanks were beaten by the russians, who were able to surround the germans

Weoooo! death Korps!!!! absolutaly the most badass, just look at their grenade launchers!

Preheresy TS.....

Retribution wrote:
Everyone except the Cadians

LOL.
Anyway, Vostroyans are the best, so manly even their women have mustaches. Granted I didn't even know women served (only first born sons are specifically taken) until I actually saw what I assume was a female medic or the girliest Vostroyan man ever in the Only War pdf.

Trust the guard to use a chainfist as a medical tool...