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Im kind of surprised to see Sanguinius take first place

I didnt know he was so well liked

Why wouldn't he be?

Coolyo294 wrote:Alpharius, Guilliman, and Pertuarbo.

Guilliman

Lorgar. Because he saw the truth.

For me its got to be corax but i do like kurze.

Why doesn't Khan ever get any love from the people? I want HH books on White Scars and Khan so that more will vote for him being cool.

1) Fulgrim. He's a interesting character because he's arrogant, but essentially still wants to do what's best, rather than Lorgar's "LETZ TURN TO KAOS LOLZ"

Also, his obsession with perfection is a pretty cool flaw.

2) Corax. Again with the tragic hero thing. I was looking forward to Deliverance Lost, the HH book, but it really surprised me in quality, even if some parts were lifted wwhole from Raven's Flight

3) Magnus. Hmm. Never noticed how tragic all my favourites are :L

Essentially, I'm surprised a traitor isn't higher than Sanguinius, the Traitors are just much less boring!

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:1) Fulgrim. He's a interesting character because he's arrogant, but essentially still wants to do what's best, rather than Lorgar's "LETZ TURN TO KAOS LOLZ"

He was a pretty boy with an inferiority complex who now spends the day wasting on sex, drugs, pain, and alcohol. At least Lorgar does something productive. Well, the Word Bearers do, at any rate.

Perturabo and Kurze cuz they are men of hate. And the world just doesn't have enough hate in it.

NSFW:

After reading Prospero Burns Leman Russ became my favorite Primarch. I love the fact that he cultivates that :we are dumb stupid beserkers who have no idea about any tactics or strategy.
If any of you played against a halfway experienced Space Wolf Lord, thinking what Lemann wanted you to think, you would most probably lose.
I must admit that The Wolves are very lucky to still be around, because if Magnus had reacted differently in the 1000 Sons there would be no Space Wolves to admire today. I like the whole Horus Heresy but I just hope Gavin Thorp does not get to write too many books. He makes me yawn

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:After reading Prospero Burns Leman Russ became my favorite Primarch. I love the fact that he cultivates that :we are dumb stupid beserkers who have no idea about any tactics or strategy.

He may have, but that doesn't change the fact that he was blind and arrogant.

I voted Guilliman, because to me he is pretty much the only one who lives up to the promise of a Primarch. A well-rounded superhuman being without any debilitating character flaws. Not just a great fighter or a great general, but a great leader of men.

Can we stop with the Guilliman bashing in EVERY, SINGLE thread on primarchs?

tgjensen wrote:I voted Guilliman, because to me he is pretty much the only one who lives up to the promise of a Primarch. A well-rounded superhuman being without any debilitating character flaws. Not just a great fighter or a great general, but a great leader of men.

Horus had that as well, but Guilliman was cut off from the rest of the galaxy, so was on his own. Another reason I voted for him.

How was Leman Russ blinder than Magnus. They both got done in by the Primordial Anihilator. I'll type it again THE Primordial Anihilator. The forces of Chaos knew that if Russ and Magnus were to stand against them at full Legion strength they would have been toast. Even Robutte Guilliman reckoned that Russ, Manus, Dorn & himself could take down any enemy.
Besides its a cool thing that Russ did not submit to the codex. Thats why they are one the biggest Legions 10000 years later

calgar 2.5 wrote:Can we stop with the Guilliman bashing in EVERY, SINGLE thread on primarchs?

No, no we can not

Chaos Lady wrote:

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:1) Fulgrim. He's a interesting character because he's arrogant, but essentially still wants to do what's best, rather than Lorgar's "LETZ TURN TO KAOS LOLZ"

He was a pretty boy with an inferiority complex who now spends the day wasting on sex, drugs, pain, and alcohol. At least Lorgar does something productive. Well, the Word Bearers do, at any rate.

Actually, he's not doing any of those things, considering he's a prisoner in the daemon's mind.

Maybe later books will show us Lorgar tutoring him to achieve true apotheosis/symbiosis with the daemon, but from what we know now, there really is no Fulgrim. And yes, he was a ponce who basically turned to Chaos because some guy didn't like one of his sculptures.

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:After reading Prospero Burns Leman Russ became my favorite Primarch. I love the fact that he cultivates that :we are dumb stupid beserkers who have no idea about any tactics or strategy.

Indeed! Space Wolves are dumb stupid berserkers that are actually quite adept at tactics and strategy.

I'm not being sarcastic, Space Wolves are dead-hard badasses and one of the most lethal fighting forces in the Imperium. They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted.

Fulgrim was such a pretty lady before he turned into that snake monster.

The Vanity and the sheer "WTF WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!?" of the Emperor's Children is great.

The WTF WERE YOU THINKING factor in the legions is funny regardless of which one

"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Two words: rabid dogs. A complete disgrace to the ideals of the Imperial Truth and the old Imperium, and dangerous mavericks in the current one.

You have something against Guilliman don't you...

timthehierodule wrote:You have something against Guilliman don't you...

No nothing against him, it's just funny

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Blah blah blah. The Ragnar tales are like books for 5-year-olds, with them fightin' and fartin' rounda woyld!



Codex: Space Wolves? The only example out of that book that anyone ever brings up is Logan's refusal to go along with the Inquisition's plans for Armageddon. Of course, there's been a whole book written about that event, and all his blustering did was result in the death of countless of innocents, spread Chaos corruption throughout the Imperium, and almost brought things to a civil war where the Imperium would bleed themselves dry to exterminate the Wolves. Or how about Battle for the Fang, where the Space Wolves are shown as a Chapter who will mock a leader who advises caution and forethought before taking an action?

The superstition comes not from the rituals that summon Warp powers, but rather from the culture of Fenris, where people will put up red sails and go slaughter every living being of a particular village because some frothing shaman told them they are tainted by sky magic (irony much?). It also comes into the picture when the Wolves like to pretend their powers come from anything other than the Warp. Things from the Warp are obviously not bad if you know what you're doing (see: Grey Knights)

Magnus' lack of perspective (get it? he only has one eye? why do you think Tzeench asked for it? it's symbolic as much as physical) is undeniable, but he made that deal in desperation in order to save his children. Russ just keeps the mutants chained in his basement to unleash when he needs them, while talking smack about mutants in other Legions. Magnus was also undeniably arrogant, and near the end, defeatist and treacherous to his own children. Magnus did a lot of things wrong. The fact that he is ALSO a failure (like most of the Primarchs), doesn't excuse or suddenly make the Wolves saints. Magnus fell due to ignorance and pride, but he meant the best and felt genuine remorse for what he did. Russ is motivated by willful ignorance and pride, condemns others for doing the exact same thing he's doing. "Damn those Thousand Sons, a bunch of filthy witches and mutants. Let's get them! Unleash our witches and mutants!"

Even with faced with reality, he remains haughty and lives in his own little world. "Oh, the brother and planet I just gleefully murdered were actually loyalist all along? Oh well, let's cover this up so no one knows about it, while we continue to hunt down the remnants and pretend we're still heroes."

Omegus wrote:

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Blah blah blah. The Ragnar tales are like books for 5-year-olds, with them fightin' and fartin' rounda woyld!



Codex: Space Wolves? The only example out of that book that anyone ever brings up is Logan's refusal to go along with the Inquisition's plans for Armageddon. Of course, there's been a whole book written about that event, and all his blustering did was result in the death of countless of innocents, spread Chaos corruption throughout the Imperium, and almost brought things to a civil war where the Imperium would bleed themselves dry to exterminate the Wolves. Or how about Battle for the Fang, where the Space Wolves are shown as a Chapter who will mock a leader who advises caution and forethought before taking an action?

The superstition comes not from the rituals that summon Warp powers, but rather from the culture of Fenris, where people will put up red sails and go slaughter every living being of a particular village because some frothing shaman told them they are tainted by sky magic (irony much?). It also comes into the picture when the Wolves like to pretend their powers come from anything other than the Warp. Things from the Warp are obviously not bad if you know what you're doing (see: Grey Knights)

Magnus' lack of perspective (get it? he only has one eye? why do you think Tzeench asked for it? it's symbolic as much as physical) is undeniable, but he made that deal in desperation in order to save his children. Russ just keeps the mutants chained in his basement to unleash when he needs them, while talking smack about mutants in other Legions. Magnus was also undeniably arrogant, and near the end, defeatist and treacherous to his own children. Magnus did a lot of things wrong. The fact that he is ALSO a failure (like most of the Primarchs), doesn't excuse or suddenly make the Wolves saints. Magnus fell due to ignorance and pride, but he meant the best and felt genuine remorse for what he did. Russ is motivated by willful ignorance and pride, condemns others for doing the exact same thing he's doing. "Damn those Thousand Sons, a bunch of filthy witches and mutants. Let's get them! Unleash our witches and mutants!"

Even with faced with reality, he remains haughty and lives in his own little world. "Oh, the brother and planet I just gleefully murdered were actually loyalist all along? Oh well, let's cover this up so no one knows about it, while we continue to hunt down the remnants and pretend we're still heroes."

+111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Ilove40k wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Blah blah blah. The Ragnar tales are like books for 5-year-olds, with them fightin' and fartin' rounda woyld!



Codex: Space Wolves? The only example out of that book that anyone ever brings up is Logan's refusal to go along with the Inquisition's plans for Armageddon. Of course, there's been a whole book written about that event, and all his blustering did was result in the death of countless of innocents, spread Chaos corruption throughout the Imperium, and almost brought things to a civil war where the Imperium would bleed themselves dry to exterminate the Wolves. Or how about Battle for the Fang, where the Space Wolves are shown as a Chapter who will mock a leader who advises caution and forethought before taking an action?

The superstition comes not from the rituals that summon Warp powers, but rather from the culture of Fenris, where people will put up red sails and go slaughter every living being of a particular village because some frothing shaman told them they are tainted by sky magic (irony much?). It also comes into the picture when the Wolves like to pretend their powers come from anything other than the Warp. Things from the Warp are obviously not bad if you know what you're doing (see: Grey Knights)

Magnus' lack of perspective (get it? he only has one eye? why do you think Tzeench asked for it? it's symbolic as much as physical) is undeniable, but he made that deal in desperation in order to save his children. Russ just keeps the mutants chained in his basement to unleash when he needs them, while talking smack about mutants in other Legions. Magnus was also undeniably arrogant, and near the end, defeatist and treacherous to his own children. Magnus did a lot of things wrong. The fact that he is ALSO a failure (like most of the Primarchs), doesn't excuse or suddenly make the Wolves saints. Magnus fell due to ignorance and pride, but he meant the best and felt genuine remorse for what he did. Russ is motivated by willful ignorance and pride, condemns others for doing the exact same thing he's doing. "Damn those Thousand Sons, a bunch of filthy witches and mutants. Let's get them! Unleash our witches and mutants!"

Even with faced with reality, he remains haughty and lives in his own little world. "Oh, the brother and planet I just gleefully murdered were actually loyalist all along? Oh well, let's cover this up so no one knows about it, while we continue to hunt down the remnants and pretend we're still heroes."

+111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

-111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

The Wolves were no saints, but they out-did the Sons at least. With the Wolves you have a group of brilliant tacticians playing at being brain-dead psychopathic killers, with the sons you have a group of people who take every possible opportunity to spurn the Emperor's teachings and direct commands playing at being the Galaxy's foremost scholars

No, they aren't brilliant tacticians playing at being brain-dead psychopathic killers. They aren't brain-dead, and they aren't psychopaths. They are savage and ignorant (willfully so... they love to not know) barbarians, who also happen to be brilliant tacticians. Why? Because tactics help you be a better killer. Honestly, now that I think about it, I may even question the "brilliant" part. There was nothing brilliant about Russ' tactics when he and the Lion assaulted that keep, there was nothing brilliant about how the Chapter Master during Battle for the Fang handled his forces, and there was nothing brilliant about how Logan handled the Inquisition (which is why Bjorn told him off). No one has ever denied that the Space Wolves are really, really, really good at killing stuff, but people seriously need to stop pretending they are some kind of enlightened and benevolent philosopher-kings.

As for the Thousand Sons, they were the galaxy's foremost scholars. The Librarium is their creation, and Magnus' vision of mastering the Warp to serve mankind lives on in the Grey Knights. Spurning the Emperor's teachings? That was the problem, the Emperor didn't teach anyone anything. He kept everything top secret and mysterious, until it blew up in his face. The Thousand Sons are guilty of spurning the Emperor's order at the Council of Nikea. You know, just like the Space Wolves who pretended it didn't apply to them in the first place, or the treacherous Lion who ignored it, or Guilliman who acquiesced but later included them in his Codex Astartes, or Malcador who overturned the decree to form the GK, or even the Emperor himself who gave his blessing to Guilliman and Malcador.

Omegus wrote:


Actually, he's not doing any of those things, considering he's a prisoner in the daemon's mind.

He kicks the demon out in the "Shattered Mirror" story in the Primarchs collection.

The Emperor: Hey son just so you know my crusade is about enlightenment and acquiring knowledge. Now let's go play a game of celestial baseball in the Warp together
Magnus the Red: Well that sounds good to me dad! =D

Later...

Emperor: Well now, this is quite an impressive collection of Warpcraft tomes son.
Magnus: Gee, thanks dad, I'm glad you li-
Emperor: Get rid of it. Stop using Warpcraft.
Magnus: Wait, what? What the feth are you talking about?
Emperor: Warpcraft is dangerous, and I should have kept you ignorant about all of this.
Magnus: ... Dude, what the hell, you taught me about the Warp, and said your crusade is all about acquiring knowledge, not keeping humanity in the dar-
Emperor: Obey me or I'll have your brother kill you.
Magnus: =\


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deathholydeath wrote:

Omegus wrote:


Actually, he's not doing any of those things, considering he's a prisoner in the daemon's mind.

He kicks the demon out in the "Shattered Mirror" story in the Primarchs collection.

Also, that's stupid.

Omegus wrote:

Ozerik Sleipnir wrote:"They just also happen to be ignorant, superstitious, arrogant, hypocritical and short-sighted." Omegus

OK So lets Break this down:
Magnus never realized with whome he had made a deal: ignorant & short sighted
All form of Ritual is can be seen as superstitious. The socalled superstitious view of the SW that the Warp is not your friend turned out to be right.
And Magnus`s conversation is only arrogant, never did I see anything humble come from Magnus. And if Magnus was so smart howcome he could not forsee what the consequences so one could call him short sighted, he dispayed all these traits. Furthermore if you read the Tales of Ragnar or even the codex of the Space Wolves they are nothing like what you describe them to be. But since you are a clear proponent of Tzeench its clear why you label the Wolves this way, Pity you live so far away I would bring Ozerik Sleipnirs Company and teach you the Space Wolves are actually experts at taking down sorcerous Traitors. The Thousand Sons had been sold out by their Primarch pretty much from the start. I guess you could call me an unashamed fan of the Space wolves: I mean they have kept beards & drinking beer fashionable since 30 k whats not to like about them.

Blah blah blah. The Ragnar tales are like books for 5-year-olds, with them fightin' and fartin' rounda woyld!



Codex: Space Wolves? The only example out of that book that anyone ever brings up is Logan's refusal to go along with the Inquisition's plans for Armageddon. Of course, there's been a whole book written about that event, and all his blustering did was result in the death of countless of innocents, spread Chaos corruption throughout the Imperium, and almost brought things to a civil war where the Imperium would bleed themselves dry to exterminate the Wolves. Or how about Battle for the Fang, where the Space Wolves are shown as a Chapter who will mock a leader who advises caution and forethought before taking an action?

The superstition comes not from the rituals that summon Warp powers, but rather from the culture of Fenris, where people will put up red sails and go slaughter every living being of a particular village because some frothing shaman told them they are tainted by sky magic (irony much?). It also comes into the picture when the Wolves like to pretend their powers come from anything other than the Warp. Things from the Warp are obviously not bad if you know what you're doing (see: Grey Knights)

Magnus' lack of perspective (get it? he only has one eye? why do you think Tzeench asked for it? it's symbolic as much as physical) is undeniable, but he made that deal in desperation in order to save his children. Russ just keeps the mutants chained in his basement to unleash when he needs them, while talking smack about mutants in other Legions. Magnus was also undeniably arrogant, and near the end, defeatist and treacherous to his own children. Magnus did a lot of things wrong. The fact that he is ALSO a failure (like most of the Primarchs), doesn't excuse or suddenly make the Wolves saints. Magnus fell due to ignorance and pride, but he meant the best and felt genuine remorse for what he did. Russ is motivated by willful ignorance and pride, condemns others for doing the exact same thing he's doing. "Damn those Thousand Sons, a bunch of filthy witches and mutants. Let's get them! Unleash our witches and mutants!"

Even with faced with reality, he remains haughty and lives in his own little world. "Oh, the brother and planet I just gleefully murdered were actually loyalist all along? Oh well, let's cover this up so no one knows about it, while we continue to hunt down the remnants and pretend we're still heroes."

+1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
My thoughts exactly. To sum it up, they condemned the Thousand Sons and other legions for their use of librarians (though the Sons primarily) , all the while insisting their Rune Priests used snow magic instead of the Warp, and even after the Emperor banned the use of psychic powers, continued to use them. They consider the flesh-change an abomination, but if those wulfen kept in the cages aren't abominations, I don't know what is. There is really no difference between the VI and XV Legions, which makes the VI a bunch of hypocrites. I'll say it again, they were a disgrace to the Imperial Truth and the old Imperium,. and dangerous mavericks in the current one. I'm no fan of the Black Templars, but I'll take Templars over Wolves any day.

Still no love for Khan?