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Soulreapers down 5 and flamers down 2!

Sounds like there's no point decreases for Loyalist Marines outside named Characters chapter specific units. That's a damned shame.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Sounds like there's no point decreases for Loyalist Marines outside named Characters chapter specific units. That's a damned shame.

Outriders -5ppm, a bunch of HS vehicles are reduced by 10-35pts, plus things like wargear for Centurions and Eliminators.

Landraiders went down, which means CSM will be the only T9 in town. Here's hoping the demolisher makes the jump.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've yet to use my Primaris army, so let me ask you this question:

As Las-Fusil's better weapons than Bolt Sniper Rifles?

It's kinda apples and oranges between the two. Sniper Rifles are kinda like marine missile launchers in they provide some flexibility toward damaging several kinds infantry-type targets. Whereas the Las Fusils dip into anti-vehicle while feeling generally more consistent even with just one firing mode. Which, if going all Primaris, anti-vehicle can sometimes be lacking.

Ultimately, as much as I like running a lot of Phobos marines and as efficient as the mathhammer comes out on Eliminators, the fact that is just 3 rifles are taking up a whole Heavy Support slot always leaves me quite unimpressed. I don't think I have had a single game where either type of Eliminator squad has done even 9 damage all game long. Even with Capt/Lt. support. They tend to be better at just being in cover to be annoyingly hard to destroy more than anything else. However, I could be rolling particularly poorly with them, coloring my perception.

Even if my opponent has them in their army, if I pay them any mind at all, I try to remove one early game. This is usually enough to leave them crippled enough that I don't have to worry about them (with bolt rifles) sniping any of my characters.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Landraiders went down, which means CSM will be the only T9 in town. Here's hoping the demolisher makes the jump.

Doesn't look like it. CSM Vindicators are +10 PPM compared to everyone else's. And, interestingly, CSM Predators are more expensive than anyone else's. Wonder what they did with those?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Landraiders went down, which means CSM will be the only T9 in town. Here's hoping the demolisher makes the jump.

Doesn't look like it. CSM Vindicators are +10 PPM compared to everyone else's. And, interestingly, CSM Predators are more expensive than anyone else's. Wonder what they did with those?

Yikes.

Coin flip:
heads: nothing
tails: improved turret guns (like the LR lascannons)

Voss wrote:
Coin flip:
heads: nothing
tails: improved turret guns (like the LR lascannons)

Yea I could see regular sponsons and a special main turret.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
erm, is the CSM page not just the full new CSM points in the soonish released codex?
Or a i seeing that wrong?

Oh gak it is too.

I was wrong: This document does have updates for CSM.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Actually the DP has the stipulation to buy a mark, but possessed cant and don't have that
Godless possessed here we come

Please, like something possessed by a Daemon from the Warp could ever be dedicated to a Chaos God. What silliness is that?

TBH, this is hillarious.

 jaredb wrote:
I don't think so, they have different roles.

 Karhedron wrote:
They do a different job. They are light anti-tank and elite infantry weapons.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
It's kinda apples and oranges between the two. Sniper Rifles are kinda like marine missile launchers in they provide some flexibility toward damaging several kinds infantry-type targets. Whereas the Las Fusils dip into anti-vehicle while feeling generally more consistent even with just one firing mode. Which, if going all Primaris, anti-vehicle can sometimes be lacking.

Thanks for the answers. In that case, removing their cost makes sense to me.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So according to this the Plague Marine loadouts are free. That is actually good news for PM.

Dirk Reinecke wrote:
... command squads now have free medics, voxes and standards, as do Stormtrooper command squads and free voxes for Stormtroopers and Veterans ... Special Weapons squads have no cost to weapons ... Officers have free power weapons, as do Veteran Sgts and Stormtrooper Sgts. Veteran Squads also now have free heavy weapons ... Heavy Weapons Squads all cost the same ...

They are slowly eroding the purpose (and efficacy) of points.

I imagine 10th will be PL only.

This is why these big points updates are free, 'cause they're not going to be a thing in the future.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Coin flip:
heads: nothing
tails: improved turret guns (like the LR lascannons)

Yea I could see regular sponsons and a special main turret.

Yeah. That's my guess as well.

 xttz wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Sounds like there's no point decreases for Loyalist Marines outside named Characters chapter specific units. That's a damned shame.

Outriders -5ppm, a bunch of HS vehicles are reduced by 10-35pts, plus things like wargear for Centurions and Eliminators.

Eh, until Centurions get CORE again it won't matter what they decrease for them.

Oh well, was hoping to make at least 50 points in my current Templar list to fit a couple more weapons but I guess not.

https://tabletoptactics.tv/2022/06/22/munitorum-field-manual-war-zone-nephilim-warhammer-40000-state-of-play/

This has all the changes that are pretty easy to read.


Some nutty points cuts to crons and Deathguard. Most everyone got something.

Ad mech are likely still in a bad place.

Expect Sisters, Deathguard and Harlequins to be pretty strong with these changes, though we'll see if the Dataslate changes anything.

The gladiator tank variants might have just edged into viability (still not "tournament winning good" though) here with these cuts.

And the Astraeus went down another 50 points (to 550). Gotta get mine finished

Lots of decreases to several Necron units as well. C'tan shards all went down. Funnily, the doomsday ark did not. . . sigh.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
I don't think so, they have different roles.

 Karhedron wrote:
They do a different job. They are light anti-tank and elite infantry weapons.

Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
It's kinda apples and oranges between the two. Sniper Rifles are kinda like marine missile launchers in they provide some flexibility toward damaging several kinds infantry-type targets. Whereas the Las Fusils dip into anti-vehicle while feeling generally more consistent even with just one firing mode. Which, if going all Primaris, anti-vehicle can sometimes be lacking.

Thanks for the answers. In that case, removing their cost makes sense to me.

 Eldarsif wrote:
So according to this the Plague Marine loadouts are free. That is actually good news for PM.

Dirk Reinecke wrote:
... command squads now have free medics, voxes and standards, as do Stormtrooper command squads and free voxes for Stormtroopers and Veterans ... Special Weapons squads have no cost to weapons ... Officers have free power weapons, as do Veteran Sgts and Stormtrooper Sgts. Veteran Squads also now have free heavy weapons ... Heavy Weapons Squads all cost the same ...

They are slowly eroding the purpose (and efficacy) of points.

I imagine 10th will be PL only.

This is why these big points updates are free, 'cause they're not going to be a thing in the future.

Realisitcally, they can't go straight up power level without potentially kicking open a hornet's nest. As much as Dakka people like to pretend it never happened and can never happen(because everybody who likes 40k is sheeps or w/e), people WERE abandoning 40k in droves in 7th edition because they finally pushed people over the edge, ruleswise.

If they're going to change the way points work to be more like powerlevel, it'll almost certainly be Sigmar's point system. It has the 'we don't have to make more than one good loadout' bonus of powerlevel while also being more granular.

Do we have any clue what they are planning to target in next dataslate coming tomorrow?

Nope, probably nerfing Tyranids even more though, because GW is gonna GW.

 Sasori wrote:
https://tabletoptactics.tv/2022/06/22/munitorum-field-manual-war-zone-nephilim-warhammer-40000-state-of-play/

This has all the changes that are pretty easy to read.


Some nutty points cuts to crons and Deathguard. Most everyone got something.

Ad mech are likely still in a bad place.

Expect Sisters, Deathguard and Harlequins to be pretty strong with these changes, though we'll see if the Dataslate changes anything.

It really depends on the Balance slate. All the drops Sisters got get more than canceled out if they lose AoC (especially if they're the ONLY ones who lose AoC) and Harlies are almost certainly getting knocked down with how little they got touched.

ERJAK wrote:
Realisitcally, they can't go straight up power level without potentially kicking open a hornet's nest. As much as Dakka people like to pretend it never happened and can never happen(because everybody who likes 40k is sheeps or w/e), people WERE abandoning 40k in droves in 7th edition because they finally pushed people over the edge, ruleswise.

If they're going to change the way points work to be more like powerlevel, it'll almost certainly be Sigmar's point system. It has the 'we don't have to make more than one good loadout' bonus of powerlevel while also being more granular.

I see where people think that this is an AoS-ification, but that feels like jumping the gun. I highly doubt we'll get to the point where Rubrics are walking around with flamers for free. It's cases where the unit itself needed a point adjustment, but not one that make a naked squad too cheap where spamming bodies becomes more useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
It really depends on the Balance slate. All the drops Sisters got get more than canceled out if they lose AoC (especially if they're the ONLY ones who lose AoC) and Harlies are almost certainly getting knocked down with how little they got touched.

I can't imagine why they might do to Harlies in the slate though? Unless they punch Light?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Realisitcally, they can't go straight up power level without potentially kicking open a hornet's nest. As much as Dakka people like to pretend it never happened and can never happen(because everybody who likes 40k is sheeps or w/e), people WERE abandoning 40k in droves in 7th edition because they finally pushed people over the edge, ruleswise.

If they're going to change the way points work to be more like powerlevel, it'll almost certainly be Sigmar's point system. It has the 'we don't have to make more than one good loadout' bonus of powerlevel while also being more granular.

I see where people think that this is an AoS-ification, but that feels like jumping the gun. I highly doubt we'll get to the point where Rubrics are walking around with flamers for free. It's cases where the unit itself needed a point adjustment, but not one that make a naked squad too cheap where spamming bodies becomes more useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
It really depends on the Balance slate. All the drops Sisters got get more than canceled out if they lose AoC (especially if they're the ONLY ones who lose AoC) and Harlies are almost certainly getting knocked down with how little they got touched.

I can't imagine why they might do to Harlies in the slate though? Unless they punch Light?

That's my guess. Light Saedath isn't that much stronger in terms of pure performance but DOES create the most 'un-fun' play pattern. They might still hit dark in some way, but I expect Light to be significantly different (and significantly worse).

Could theoretically also see data sheet changes. If they pull the -1 to hit off of mirage launchers, that would be a pretty significant dent in their durability.

ERJAK wrote:

It really depends on the Balance slate. All the drops Sisters got get more than canceled out if they lose AoC (especially if they're the ONLY ones who lose AoC) and Harlies are almost certainly getting knocked down with how little they got touched.

The biggest marine points changes seem to be focused on vehicles. AoC changing to infantry only perhaps?

 bullyboy wrote:
Do we have any clue what they are planning to target in next dataslate coming tomorrow?

Eldar Hail of Doom is probably a good bet.

 Miguelsan wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me if the change were due to the people in GWHQ getting roll stomped by somebody with a transport list in a test game or two.

It was rumored at the time that the changes to a less lethal Bloodbowl edition happened after somebody taught Jervis and Co how people played in the wild.

M.

That was fouling. 3rd? edition I believe. A chap joined the studio league and slaughtered everyone with fouling. Before then they didn't really foul much. This led to the IGMEOY rule and has ended up being the sent off on doubles rule today.

I'm surprised we didn't see the Ork Boyz 'eavy weapons get folded into the overall cost, given how minimally effective they're generally thought to be.

Yeah it seems a lot of equipment is free now. Which is...odd. I guess GW really wants points to die and PL to take over.

I guess people like making patterns where none exist.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I guess people like making patterns where none exist.

That's an extremely basic fact of human psychology, yes.

Tau got some pretty hefty nerfs so they are likely dead in the water unless they get some datasheet buffs. The average competitive list went up 150-300 points depending on loadout.

 DominayTrix wrote:
Tau got some pretty hefty nerfs so they are likely dead in the water unless they get some datasheet buffs. The average competitive list went up 150-300 points depending on loadout.

I mean...the 150pts side of that just puts them in line with other factions.

Dudeface wrote:


Ahh yes, that doesn't exist in the UK so she's functionally oop from a UK perspective.

You guys don't have ebay?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
MY favorite part is how they cut us down by 8CP in the pregame and then try to pretended like worthless round 4 or round 5 CP 'balances it out' like we don't know how the game works.

I'd trade 20 round 5 CP for even just your first warlord trait to be free.

Good! I don't like stratagems, they further unbalance the game by widening the rift between haves and have nots, and I would love to see less of them played overall. Remembering 700 stratagems so I don't get hit with a gotcha mechanic is not my idea of beer and pretzels fun. I don't even think it's good for competitive play because of how unbalanced they can be.